How would this make YOU feel?

[Publisher]

I personally don’t know how I would react. But you have to wonder:

If Jesus got angry and chased out the Hewbrew moneychangers just outside the Temple, how would he have felt if the Hight Priest had allowed a Pagan group to convene a meeting there?

Snert

The difference I believe would be that the Temple was God’s sacred home on Earth…a church building…is a building.

 

[nickybr38]

The difference I believe would be that the Temple was God’s sacred home on Earth…a church building…is a building.

So you believe there are no more Temples on earth? When did that stop and does that mean God no longer has a home on earth at all?

 

[Snerticus]

The difference I believe would be that the Temple was God’s sacred home on Earth…a church building…is a building.

Ahh but that’s just it. Catholics believe that since Jesus dwells physically in the Tabernacle of a Catholic Church, it is the sacred house of God.

Snert

 

[Publisher]

Ahh but that’s just it. Catholics believe that since Jesus dwells physically in the Tabernacle of a Catholic Church, it is the sacred house of God.

Snert

That IS a difference.

 

[Jon_Hus]

Not to pick nits, but…

… But, remember what Jesus said," If they destroyed the Temple, in 3 days he would raise it up." He was talking about us.

No, He was not talking about us, you, or any other mortal being or material object. He was talking about himself.

Moving onward,

There are in this thread some good points on both sides. Jesus, during his ministry went into buildings like the synagogue at Capernium which was full of unbelievers, people that actually wanted him dead. He chose Cessaria-Phillipi to minister which was at that time a shrine to a pagan diety. But Jesus never endoursed any other faith except trusting in the one true God of the Bible. He made it very clear that faith in anything else but Jehovah would lead to death.

Personally I wouldn’t be a part of renting space to another religion or faith but some good points have been made here.

 

[Matthew_Holford]

… the people are what makes any place sacred…not the place./QUOTE]
Dear Publisher

Catholics have a different view of their churches. We do believe that they are sacred places and that they are set aside for the worship of God. We dedicate our sacred places using holy oils, incense, and lustral water and the dedication is carried out by a bishop.

Our understanding of churches are different from your meeting houses.

I agree that people are sacred but we also consider our “worship space” is also considered sacred. Therefore, we do not see our churches can be used for just any purpose or use.

Regards, MH.

 

[Publisher]

Publisher;7010256:

… the people are what makes any place sacred…not the place./QUOTE]
Dear Publisher

Catholics have a different view of their churches. We do believe that they are sacred places and that they are set aside for the worship of God. We dedicate our sacred places using holy oils, incense, and lustral water and the dedication is carried out by a bishop.

Our understanding of churches are different from your meeting houses.

I agree that people are sacred but we also consider our “worship space” is also considered sacred. Therefore, we do not see our churches can be used for just any purpose or use.

Regards, MH.

You’re right…your view on your church buildings is much different than our view about our meetinghouses. We can meet for woship any place…any time and meet God as we experience the Presence in our midst sicne we do not believe “God dwells in houses made with human hands.”

 

[Sufjon]

In John 1:9, he spoke of " 9The true light that **gives light to every man **was coming into the world." Friends believe that there is a “Principle” that is pure and holy that resides within each of us…we bear within us “That of God”. Some may call this Light the Holy Spirit…others “Inner Light”…“Inner Word”…this Light Within, if followed…cultivated…listened to will lead us to God.

God’s Holy Temple…His Church is not found in a building, temple, or mosque made by human hands…His Church…His People are the choice Temple of His Presence. Humanity bears within it the “Thumbprint of God”.

There are no “sacred spaces” any longer…such as the Temple of Jerusalem where God’s Presence…His Shekianah…rested…His Shekianah now rests, resides in the human heart.

"The God who made the world and everything in it is the Lord of heaven and earth and does not live in temples built by hands. "Acts 17:23-25

Our Meetinghouses are plain and simple…they serve a purpose…they house the Church on First Day meeting for worship…but a field…or forest…or school room…or rented hall all serve the same purpose…there is nothing sacred about bricks and mortar and wood.

Now this is something I could believe. Thank you again for your patience with my questions.

 

[Publisher]

Now this is something I could believe. Thank you again for your patience with my questions.

You are welcome friend, we are all Seekers.

 

[Milesius]

Well said, “love your neighbor as yourself” is one of the Bibles most repeated commands (8 times)

There is one commandment above that one, which applies to thsi situation, it is the often forgotten love the Lord your God and have no other before Him.

 

[Milesius]

The difference I believe would be that the Temple was God’s sacred home on Earth…a church building…is a building.

Not in the Catholic faith it is not, a Catholic church is consecrated to be used solely for the worship of God and Christ lives within the church body, blood, soul and divinity within the the tabernacle on the altar.

So in the Catholic faith a Catholic church is the same as the Temple of God in the old testament, there is no difference.

 

[Dokimas]

This is a common error arising out of the Reformation.

It is clear to see from OT times that there is sacred space, and sacred objects. Jesus reinforced this by teaching that.

**Matt.23
[19] You blind men! For which is greater, the gift or the altar that makes the gift sacred? **

Actually, Jesus appears to teach the opposite. However, I don’t disagree with your other statements, that the Church is the Body (people).

Objects like the altar, and buildings where those people gather, when consecrated to God, do become sacred space. It is the divine, though, that makes them sacred, not the people.

John 4:
19 The woman said to Him, "Sir, I perceive that You are a prophet.
20 “Our fathers worshiped on this mountain, and you Jews say that in Jerusalem is the place where one ought to worship.”
21 Jesus said to her, "Woman, believe Me, the hour is coming when you will neither on this mountain, nor in Jerusalem, worship the Father.
22 "You worship what you do not know; we know what we worship, for salvation is of the Jews.
23 "But the hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for the Father is seeking such to worship Him.
24 “God is Spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth.”
25 The woman said to Him, “I know that Messiah is coming” (who is called Christ). “When He comes, He will tell us all things.”
26 Jesus said to her, “I who speak to you am He.”

Jesus seems to be saying worship is not a matter of place but of what true worship is.

He also says that salvation is of the Jews. Interesting!! We’d think He’d say of the Christians or of the Catholics.

 

[wisdomseeker]

Actually its the perfect question. Remember if are Christian you are the Church. Oh sure, some buildings have a rich in historical and Ritualistic significance. But, remember what Jesus said," If they destroyed the Temple, in 3 days he would raise it up." He was talking about us. In the early days of the church they preached in synagogues and houses among the faithful not the cathedrals of today.
As for allowing another religion to practice in your church building remember Jesus’s second greatest commandment was to love your neighbor as you love yourself. So it would be appropriate to let them rent the room. It’s an act of charity. Now, if they were profaning it in someway, or if it caused a huge scandal it would have to be stopped. But other than those two things it shouldn’t be a problem.

we are not the Church. Jesus did not found us, He found a Church. for the Apostles to worship in the Synaguogues was ok. that was the Temple where God dwelled. as for unbelievers to come and worship in teh House of God is a different story.

we are not to allow the Temple of God to be contaminated with other gods. i think we can see this in the Jews times.
charity is to preach the Truth to all peoples and not to simply accept their religion. where do you see the Apostles doing such a thing.
now and days, man have abandoned the Truth in acceptance of relativism in which there is no Truth. we can all get along. i leave you alone with your beliefs and you leave me alone with my beliefs. where did Jesus ever said such a thing.
every CC that is built, it is consegrated to our God, it becomes a holy place of Worship to one God and not many gods, just like the jewish Temple was. the Word of God is a sword. what does this means to you.

 

[nickybr38]

John 4:
19 The woman said to Him, "Sir, I perceive that You are a prophet.
20 “Our fathers worshiped on this mountain, and you Jews say that in Jerusalem is the place where one ought to worship.”
21 Jesus said to her, "Woman, believe Me, the hour is coming when you will neither on this mountain, nor in Jerusalem, worship the Father.
22 "You worship what you do not know; we know what we worship, for salvation is of the Jews.
23 "But the hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for the Father is seeking such to worship Him.
24 “God is Spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth.”
25 The woman said to Him, “I know that Messiah is coming” (who is called Christ). “When He comes, He will tell us all things.”
26 Jesus said to her, “I who speak to you am He.”

Jesus seems to be saying worship is not a matter of place but of what true worship is.

He also says that salvation is of the Jews. Interesting!! We’d think He’d say of the Christians or of the Catholics.

1. The Jewish people maintained the Old Covenant until it was broken (via Christ’s death) so salvation did come through them. Without the Old Covenant there would be no New Covenant. Where did Jewish people worship? IN A TEMPLE.
2. Jesus could NOT have said Christian or Catholic, those words didn’t exist.

Jesus Himself frequented the Temple, because it was the right thing to do. As did His disciples.

Throughout the Bible God frequents PLACES and not just PEOPLE. And the People He is said to have been with were special. Not every person on the planet, no, special people who were anointed by the Prophets of God.

He stayed within the Ark, He stayed within the temple… and now He rests in the Tabernacle. God is everywhere but at the same time He makes us come to Him on HIS terms, in HIS place. You know why? Because we’re stubborn, foolish, pig-headed, prideful people. And so none of us can say; God is with me, NOT with you; He has a set place where He stays. This way He is making us all equal, which we should be.

NOW, the above is just my opinion but that’s what I think. My fellow Catholics, feel free to correct me if I’m saying something that’s doctrinally incorrect.

 

[Dokimas]

1. The Jewish people maintained the Old Covenant until it was broken (via Christ’s death) so salvation did come through them. Without the Old Covenant there would be no New Covenant. Where did Jewish people worship? IN A TEMPLE.
2. Jesus could NOT have said Christian or Catholic, those words didn’t exist.

Jesus Himself frequented the Temple, because it was the right thing to do. As did His disciples.

Throughout the Bible God frequents PLACES and not just PEOPLE. And the People He is said to have been with were special. Not every person on the planet, no, special people who were anointed by the Prophets of God.

He stayed within the Ark, He stayed within the temple… and now He rests in the Tabernacle. God is everywhere but at the same time He makes us come to Him on HIS terms, in HIS place. You know why? Because we’re stubborn, foolish, pig-headed, prideful people. And so none of us can say; God is with me, NOT with you; He has a set place where He stays. This way He is making us all equal, which we should be.

NOW, the above is just my opinion but that’s what I think. My fellow Catholics, feel free to correct me if I’m saying something that’s doctrinally incorrect.

Jesus didn’t say, ‘My church’. The word ‘church’ existed, did it not?

BTW, can you find any reference for the church being a building? Isn’t the definition of the Greek word we translate as ‘church’ means ‘called out ones’? This would mean to me the church is people, not a place - except were we are.

Where did the early church meet? Was it not in homes and on mountain sides?

We are the temple, are we not?

The Holy Spirit within us makes us equal, does He not?

 

[Publisher]

Jesus didn’t say, ‘My church’. The word ‘church’ existed, did it not?

BTW, can you find any reference for the church being a building? Isn’t the definition of the Greek word we translate as ‘church’ means ‘called out ones’? This would mean to me the church is people, not a place - except were we are.

Where did the early church meet? Was it not in homes and on mountain sides?

We are the temple, are we not?

The Holy Spirit within us makes us equal, does He not?

“I will build my assembly”…“I will build my congregation”…“I will build my gathering of people similar to the gathering of a public gathering with purpose.”

“Ecclesia” was rendered “church”…but it stemmed from the word for “public gathering to do community buisness.”

 

[nickybr38]

Jesus didn’t say, ‘My church’. The word ‘church’ existed, did it not?

BTW, can you find any reference for the church being a building? Isn’t the definition of the Greek word we translate as ‘church’ means ‘called out ones’? This would mean to me the church is people, not a place - except were we are.

Where did the early church meet? Was it not in homes and on mountain sides?

We are the temple, are we not?

The Holy Spirit within us makes us equal, does He not?

Just because there is a spiritual meaning does not negate the physical meaning (IE: Temple - we CAN be temples to the Holy Spirit, that does not mean physical Temples - as in buildings - can no longer exist). I am not convinced the Holy Spirit resides in us 24/7. Why? Because when I read Scripture the presence of the Holy Spirit manifests in great ways and all I see around me are Christians doing mundane things. If the Holy Spirit is within us always I would not be able to say things that are not correct, and neither would you. I don’t know what the Church teaches about this (the CHURCH being the body of believers that Christ established - led by the anointed presbyters He has set in place) but I trust I will learn in time. For now that’s just how I think.

It’s good Jesus didn’t say ‘my church’. A church isn’t a building. That much is true. The word Church refers to an assembly, a gathering of people (most commonly).

I’m not sure if I’m explaining myself properly. I apologize. ): I’m really not great at brain to text.

But anyway. Back to the original topic. Back to the Bible. God often declares places Holy and when God declares them Holy they remain so. Whether or not you believe a Church building is necessary, if we TRULY believe God is among us when we gather then we must also believe those places become Holy when we use them for worship.

And if it is Holy ground we must respect it and not allow other gods to profane it.

And that’s just my opinion.

 

[Dokimas]

“I will build my assembly”…“I will build my congregation”…“I will build my gathering of people similar to the gathering of a public gathering with purpose.”

“Ecclesia” was rendered “church”…but it stemmed from the word for “public gathering to do community buisness.”

I think you’re not following the conversation. I quoted what Jesus said about salvation and the Jews. In the verse quoted, He did not say the church but Jews.

Ecclesia - called out ones.

 

[dianaiad]

Say, for example, a group of Hindu believers approached your church and asked if they could rent a room for their prayer meetings. Or a group of Wiccans. Or a group of Muslims. Or any non-Christian group. Now, your church says yes and these meetings become a regular weekly thing. How would you feel?

This question is inspired by a real life event but I don’t want to get too specific. I just found it odd that a Christian church was allowing a non-Christian religion to practice prayer meetings within their ‘temple’ and when NONE of the parishioners objected I found myself wondering how you guys here would feel if this happened in your church.

I would be fine with it.

I’ve skimmed through this thread, and the responses were rather enlightening; taught me a great deal about the attitudes of the posters towards the beliefs of others. It has explained a great deal, actually.

However, here’s a story for you…an ongoing and true one.

Many years ago there was a very small LDS branch meeting in a rented hall; the landlord was told by his “Christian” pastor to not allow the Mormons to meet there any more, so…we were out and looking for a place. Another small church (associated with the Baptists) heard about it and offered to let us meet in their new building…not the chapel part, but in a recreation area. We accepted, gratefully.

A few years later we had three meetinghouses in town. The small church that allowed us to meet in their recreation area had some major plumbing problems; the people who built their building had defrauded them, and the city had cited them for so many code violations that they had to condemn the very recreation area we had met in.

We found out about it, and one of the Bishops offered to let the members of that small church meet in one of our buildings until the repairs could be made in theirs. Then we got a local contractor, a Mormon, to supervise the work while we all pitched in and repaired their buildings, getting them up to code.

Last week one of our meetinghouses was firebombed, along with another church…a mostly African American evangelical church. There was a huge amount of damage done to both churches (and no, we have no idea who did it…and why the culprit, evidently the same person/s in both instances…would choose THESE two churches to destroy).

Repairing our meeting house isn’t going to be an issue. There is, of course, no mortage to worry about, and it’s fully insured; nobody was injured. The other church, though…it’s in a little bit of trouble. I have just found out that the Baptist group that helped us is going to help them…and so will we. They will meet in the Baptist church, and we will help rebuild their buildings.

A meeting house/church/ is a building, people. Once dedicated to be a place to worship/meet, it needs to be treated with respect, of course–but PART of treating it with respect is to understand that God loves us all, and that includes those who might not agree with us all doctrinal issues.

…and if that means that we open our doors to Hindus, Jews, Muslims, Catholics or Baptists who don’t have a place to worship for whatever temporary reason, then God isn’t going to get upset with us.

I think we would draw the line at voodoo sacrifices, Santaria or snake handling, though.

 

[Publisher]

I think you’re not following the conversation. I quoted what Jesus said about salvation and the Jews. In the verse quoted, He did not say the church but Jews.

Ecclesia - called out ones.

I must not be…but yes “eclesia” does indeed mean “called out ones”…but it has it’s original expression not in an organization…but in a “town meeting”…the “town meeting” was called the “ecclesia”…a congregation…a “meeting”…a word Friends use very often.

I guess my mind “jumped” to another track of thought when I read your words…I was thinking how often many use the word “church” used in the gospels to signify some special event and that Jesus “founded” some institutional religiious hierarchal body called the “Church”…which I do not beleive…the Early Church met in home gatherings at varying locations to remember the words of Jesus and discuss how they should be implemented into the daily of their lives. They were not bogged down with “priests” and “bishops”…these were “innovations” that were used by some of the traditions which wanted to gather all the believers into a single institutional body, ruled over by an hierarchal body of leadership…which was more concerned about “correct belief” than “correct living”…those first believers implemented the teachings of Jesus…the words of Jesus as having utmost importance…the beliefs ABOUT Jesus came much later and were used as a “lithmus test” on who was a “true believer”…embraced the hierarchy’s “belief system” about Jesus…not necessarily about his words and how they were to shape the members of the Kingdom of God.