How would you deal with abuses that make a mockery out of Mass?

[Love_Divine]

I’m a little stuck on where to start with handling the issues with Mass at my parish. I’m not talking about the little things like changing the words here and there, glass sacred vessels, music. EMHC’s etc. Not things that can easily just be an unknown mistake that’s easily corrected or an annoyance.

I’m talking about the kind of abuses that make a mockery out of the Mass. Inappropriate conduct at Mass. For example, inviting a child up to the sanctuary steps for the congregation to mock his jersey, calling families by name who are wearing certain jerseys to stand up so we can acknowledge their team’s win, the deacon’s homily starting out as a tribute to the priest and his new glasses that actually starts out “All Hail the priest” and then afterwards, the entire congregation bursting out in laughter and applauding the deacon’s tribute, while the priest jokingly tells the deacon, “you’re fired,” etc.

I know you’re normally supposed to start out at the lowest level of authority starting with the priest, and work your way up, but I’ve only ever seen that advice given for minor things. Would I still start with the priest, or would I start with the bishop?

I’m quite bothered by these abuses and since we had a surprise visit by a well-known dissident former bishop (hint: Giant Puppet Mass) at one of our earlier Sunday Masses who told our priest after Mass that he was impressed with how we were “celebrating the Spirit of Vatican II” in our church, and our priest being quite proud of this, I’m worried it’s just going to keep getting worse.

If it helps at all, our bishop spent 7 years working at the Vatican before he was appointed to our diocese just over a year ago.

 

[JamestheOlder]

Three possibilities, in order of priority:

First, sit down with the priest and explain (carefully and charitably) your concerns.

Second, if you don’t want to do #1, write a (careful and charitable) letter to your Bishop explaining your concerns.

Third, if neither #1 or #2 appeals, find a new parish…at least for the time being.

 

[TheMc]

Three possibilities, in order of priority:

First, sit down with the priest and explain (carefully and charitably) your concerns.

Second, if you don’t want to do #1, write a (careful and charitable) letter to your Bishop explaining your concerns.

Third, if neither #1 or #2 appeals, find a new parish…at least for the time being.

And while you are doing #3, you should also write a letter to the CDWDS.

 

[Love_Divine]

Thanks.

I’ve thought about emailing the priest about my concerns, which would start a paper trail and give me more substantial evidence of this misconduct should I have to go to the higher levels.

 

[Claire_from_DE]

I don’t think these things are intended to make a mockery of the mass. The priest is trying to connect with the congregation and some of them like it. They feel included and feel a connection with the priest, as though he understands where they’re coming from and he likes them and can joke around with them. This makes them feel welcome and connected to the parish. I’m sure the whole homily isn’t about what team is winning.

Nevertheless, this is not appropriate during mass. This sort of thing should be done when father is talking to the young men out front of the church after mass.

I think you should take your concern to the pastor first. If you want him to change you will have to find a way to approach him that will not immediately make him defensive. My suggestion would be to write a letter to him that will open his eyes to the effect this behavior has on other members of the parish who aren’t the specially favored ones, don’t follow every team, who come to mass to worship God, who may have brought heavy burdens with them and are in need of encouragement or comfort.

Make the letter short and specific (you may later need to send a copy to the bishop). Don’t make accusatory statements. Do be clear about what you would like to see happen.

Use statements like: ’ two Sundays ago you did such and such’, ‘when you do this, some of us feel uncomfortable because…’, or ‘would it be possible to wait until after mass to joke around because this distracts us from focusing on the readings and on the offertory prayers that follow’.

At some point in the letter point out something that the priest does well and that you appreciate. Assume that he is acting with good intentions even though you don’t like what he did. Remember he is a priest and he deserves your respect.

Keep the letter to one page. After you write it, keep it a couple days before sending it. Pray about it. Edit it as necessary. Hand him the letter in person or mail it to him. Don’t use email; it is too easy to write something in the heat of the moment and send it off and later regret it.

I did this with a former pastor about an issue and, to my astonishment, he later apologized and his behavior changed.

 

[Stylites]

I don’t think these things are intended to make a mockery of the mass. The priest is trying to connect with the congregation and some of them like it. They feel included and feel a connection with the priest, as though he understands where they’re coming from and he likes them and can joke around with them. This makes them feel welcome and connected to the parish. I’m sure the whole homily isn’t about what team is winning.

Nevertheless, this is not appropriate during mass. This sort of thing should be done when father is talking to the young men out front of the church after mass.

Thanks, Claire. I agree, they don’t rise to the level of a mockery. It sounds to me that the Father is making light-hearted quips. Some priests do this during the Mass, and I don’t see that it is inappropriate, depending on the time. Joking during the greeting or the dismissal is fine, or even in the homily it is okay. Joking during the consecration, obviously no.

As for what one can do about light-hearted humor, the Gospel gives us the standard. If one has anything against one’s brother’s light-hearted humor then take it up with him in person, is the proper start. Shooting off faxes to the Vatican and broadcasting on the internet and calling the bishop might be standards to some, but it is not the Gospel way in dealing with the light-hearted humor of one’s brother.

 

[Love_Divine]

Thanks, Claire. I agree, they don’t rise to the level of a mockery. It sounds to me that the Father is making light-hearted quips. Some priests do this during the Mass, and I don’t see that it is inappropriate, depending on the time. Joking during the greeting or the dismissal is fine, or even in the homily it is okay. Joking during the consecration, obviously no.

As for what one can do about light-hearted humor, the Gospel gives us the standard. If one has anything against one’s brother’s light-hearted humor then take it up with him in person, is the proper start. Shooting off faxes to the Vatican and broadcasting on the internet and calling the bishop might be standards to some, but it is not the Gospel way in dealing with the light-hearted humor of one’s brother.

The Holy Father has stated such behaviour is inappropriate. Mass is about worshipping God; not ourselves. Mass is a gift given to us from Jesus. It is not ours to alter in anyway.

 

[Stylites]

The Holy Father has stated such behaviour is inappropriate. Mass is about worshipping God; not ourselves. Mass is a gift given to us from Jesus. It is not ours to alter in anyway.

How is light-hearted humor ‘worshipping ourselves’? Where has the Holy Father said that light-hearted humor is inappropriate?

 

[formerlysure]

I don’t mean to minimize the OPs concerns but am struggling to understand where the abuse is in the story. It sounds to me like the priest is trying to make personal connections with the congregation with some light humor, which isn’t inappropriate. In fact, I feel the point of a Homily is for the priest to make a connection between the day’s lessons from the Bible and the current lives of the congregation, is it not? If a child is being mocked, that’s never appropriate in any context, but if a priest is doing a little good-natured ribbing of a kid in a Packer’s shirt when he himself is a Bear’s fan, I don’t think it’s a disrespect of God - it’s just making a humorous human connection.

If you feel it’s to a point where it does interfere with the sanctity of the service though, one suggestion would be to ask the priest if he could reserve the chat about his sport team or other off-topic items to the announcements, after the important aspects of the service are over. But it sounds like your church is generally not your style and it may be time to find another which is more conservative and traditional in approach.

 

[TheMc]

How is light-hearted humor ‘worshipping ourselves’? Where has the Holy Father said that light-hearted humor is inappropriate?

I’m not sure “worshipping ourselves” was the best choice of words, but the idea still applies. The Mass is not the time for humor and joking. Feel free to do that outside at the coffee and dogunts after Mass.

I’ve said it before, and I’ll say it again: We need to return to the holy fear of worship and of God, like in old testament times.

 

[TimothyH]

I would first ask myself what God has given me responsibility for and what he has not.

And then if I found that God has not placed me in a position of authority over these things, I would ask myself if it were not more prudent to trust God’s providence in such matters and leave them in the hands of those to whome God has trusted such things.

Then I would realistically ask myself if the issues I was seeing at Mass have an impact on anyone’s salvation or if they were just matters of my own personal preference.

At all times I would look to mself and my relationship with God first. Am I getting to Mass on time? Am I reverent in spite of what is going on around me? Am I receiving the Body and Blood of our Lord in a state of grace? Do I have sufficient contrition for my sins and see myself as a beggar, a dog not fit to eat the scraps off the master’s table?

Only after this reflection would I act, and if I did act, I would be very careful to focus on the Mass and not on pointing out the faults of another, especially an ordained member of the clergy. And no matter what I did, I would not bloody the priest’s nose in public. I would never do anything to diminish the priests dignity, either publically or privately.

We all want reverent Mass and there is a time and a place to speak out and a way in which we should do it. But God often acts in ways we don’t understand for a greater good than we can ever imagine.

Sometimes It’s just not our place and humility is a very difficult virtue to master.

-Tim-

 

[TimothyH]

I would first ask myself what God has given me responsibility for and what he has not.

And then if I found that God has not placed me in a position of authority over these things, I would ask myself if it were not more prudent to trust God’s providence in such matters and leave them in the hands of those to whom God has trusted such things.

Then I would realistically ask myself if the issues I was seeing at Mass have an impact on anyone’s salvation or if they were just matters of my own personal preference.

At all times I would look to mself and my relationship with God first. Am I getting to Mass on time? Am I reverent in spite of what is going on around me? Am I receiving the Body and Blood of our Lord in a state of grace? Do I have sufficient contrition for my sins and see myself as a beggar, a dog not fit to eat the scraps off the master’s table?

Only after this reflection would I act, and if I did act, I would be very careful to focus on the Mass and not on pointing out the faults of another, especially an ordained member of the clergy. And no matter what I did, I would not bloody the priest’s nose in public. I would never do anything to diminish the priests dignity, either publically or privately.

We all want reverent Mass and there is a time and a place to speak out and a way in which we should do it. But God often acts in ways we don’t understand for a greater good than we can ever imagine.

Sometimes It’s just not our place and humility is a very difficult virtue to master.

-Tim-

 

[archangel04]

In the EF mass FSSP I go to our priest before starting his homily gives short brief announcements. He also answered some questions about COTT and lay participation, I guess people had been bugging him with questions about that before. During the explanation he also asked the we please not remained kneeling at the rail after receiving communion, in his own words " I understand that many of you might remained kneeling because of the holy experience you have just witnessed and are left in awe, but I please ask that you let others kneel after you have teken communion" at that moment a couple of us chuckled becaust it was funny and I am sure he meant it to come out light-hearted. I don’t see wrong thing with that.

 

[TheMc]

I would first ask myself what God has given me responsibility for and what he has not.

And then if I found that God has not placed me in a position of authority over these things, I would ask myself if it were not more prudent to trust God’s providence in such matters and leave them in the hands of those to whome God has trusted such things.

Then I would realistically ask myself if the issues I was seeing at Mass have an impact on anyone’s salvation or if they were just matters of my own personal preference.

At all times I would look to mself and my relationship with God first. Am I getting to Mass on time? Am I reverent in spite of what is going on around me? Am I receiving the Body and Blood of our Lord in a state of grace? Do I have sufficient contrition for my sins and see myself as a beggar, a dog not fit to eat the scraps off the master’s table?

Only after this reflection would I act, and if I did act, I would be very careful to focus on the Mass and not on pointing out the faults of another, especially an ordained member of the clergy. And no matter what I did, I would not bloody the priest’s nose in public. I would never do anything to diminish the priests dignity, either publically or privately.

We all want reverent Mass and there is a time and a place to speak out and a way in which we should do it. But God often acts in ways we don’t understand for a greater good than we can ever imagine.

Sometimes It’s just not our place and humility is a very difficult virtue to master.

-Tim-

I believe every single catholic needs to do everything they can to protect the Eucharist from irreverence, and that they have a duty to assist in correcting abuses in the Mass and of the holy Eucharist. In my mind, this is not only something the faithful may do, it is something they must do. The best way to solve many of these problems is to write letters or make phone calls to the bishop, or Rome if needed.

Don’t worry, I also believe that any catholic may write **at any time **to the holy father, or CDW to make a complaint about abuses in the Mass, but I also think that it is better if you start with the bishop, with charity, of course.

Ps: the church also thinks this way. See Redemptonis Sacramentum Par. 183-84

 

[nickybr38]

I would first ask myself what God has given me responsibility for and what he has not.

And then if I found that God has not placed me in a position of authority over these things, I would ask myself if it were not more prudent to trust God’s providence in such matters and leave them in the hands of those to whome God has trusted such things.

Then I would realistically ask myself if the issues I was seeing at Mass have an impact on anyone’s salvation or if they were just matters of my own personal preference.

At all times I would look to mself and my relationship with God first. Am I getting to Mass on time? Am I reverent in spite of what is going on around me? Am I receiving the Body and Blood of our Lord in a state of grace? Do I have sufficient contrition for my sins and see myself as a beggar, a dog not fit to eat the scraps off the master’s table?

Only after this reflection would I act, and if I did act, I would be very careful to focus on the Mass and not on pointing out the faults of another, especially an ordained member of the clergy. And no matter what I did, I would not bloody the priest’s nose in public. I would never do anything to diminish the priests dignity, either publically or privately.

We all want reverent Mass and there is a time and a place to speak out and a way in which we should do it. But God often acts in ways we don’t understand for a greater good than we can ever imagine.

Sometimes It’s just not our place and humility is a very difficult virtue to master.

-Tim-

I love this response. I think it’s a good reminder for everyone.

 

[Paxvobis]

I’m a little stuck on where to start with handling the issues with Mass at my parish. I’m not talking about the little things like changing the words here and there, glass sacred vessels, music. EMHC’s etc. Not things that can easily just be an unknown mistake that’s easily corrected or an annoyance.

I’m talking about the kind of abuses that make a mockery out of the Mass. Inappropriate conduct at Mass. For example, inviting a child up to the sanctuary steps for the congregation to mock his jersey, calling families by name who are wearing certain jerseys to stand up so we can acknowledge their team’s win, the deacon’s homily starting out as a tribute to the priest and his new glasses that actually starts out “All Hail the priest” and then afterwards, the entire congregation bursting out in laughter and applauding the deacon’s tribute, while the priest jokingly tells the deacon, “you’re fired,” etc.

I know you’re normally supposed to start out at the lowest level of authority starting with the priest, and work your way up, but I’ve only ever seen that advice given for minor things. Would I still start with the priest, or would I start with the bishop?

I’m quite bothered by these abuses and since we had a surprise visit by a well-known dissident former bishop (hint: Giant Puppet Mass) at one of our earlier Sunday Masses who told our priest after Mass that he was impressed with how we were “celebrating the Spirit of Vatican II” in our church, and our priest being quite proud of this, I’m worried it’s just going to keep getting worse.

If it helps at all, our bishop spent 7 years working at the Vatican before he was appointed to our diocese just over a year ago.

First of all, I would go to another parish for Sunday Mass in the time being beginning this Sunday. There has to be one more reverent around you, no? Your soul has a right to be fed by a properly offered Mass each week, and no authority less than the Holy Father has said that.

Second of all, I would set an appointment with the priest and tell him your concerns. Tell him that such behavior (if done while the priest is at the altar) is liturgical abuse and is frowned upon by the Holy Father. Be prepared to give evidence of these claims (research is fun!). Explain to him charitably that you understand and know that he is just trying to connect with the congregation, but tell him that that is for after Mass when we are not at the foot of Calvary.

Finally, if the priest says he understands and says he’ll try to improve, I’d return to that parish. But if he brushes you off, I’d write to the Bishop. Him having spent time in Rome I’m sure is helpful to your cause.

Good Luck!

 

[Stylites]

I love this response. I think it’s a good reminder for everyone.

Yes, Tim’s words are always refreshing and well-grounded in a successful and joyous faith.

 

[Love_Divine]

But it sounds like your church is generally not your style and it may be time to find another which is more conservative and traditional in approach.

Re-read this and tell me you do not see the ridiculousness in this. One of the reasons for Vatican II was to create more unity among Catholics, and now I’m supposed to leave my parish since 1988 because it’s “not [my] style”??? This is one of the greatest problems in the Church today. All these different NO Masses to suit each person’s “style” is abhorrently wrong and damaging. This is one of the reasons why we have rules and rubrics. So that each Mass is the same regardless of the priest or parish. Priest are not supposed to inflict themeselves onto the Mass to make it “their Mass.”

In the EF mass FSSP I go to our priest before starting his homily gives short brief announcements. He also answered some questions about COTT and lay participation, I guess people had been bugging him with questions about that before. During the explanation he also asked the we please not remained kneeling at the rail after receiving communion, in his own words " I understand that many of you might remained kneeling because of the holy experience you have just witnessed and are left in awe, but I please ask that you let others kneel after you have teken communion" at that moment a couple of us chuckled becaust it was funny and I am sure he meant it to come out light-hearted. I don’t see wrong thing with that.

Trust me, what’s going on at my parish is nothing like that, and that was before Mass. I have attended several different Masses throughout Canada, and I have never witnessed anything like this before. This is disruptive to the point where it actually drags Mass out an extra 15+ minutes, despite the omitted Gloria (which is another abuse). I have no problem sitting through a 90-120+ minute Mass if it’s for a legitimate purpose, but not because the priest and deacon feel the need to be comedians. I have prayed over it for several weeks, and it seems me I’m being told to do something about it, which by the way, I do have the authority to do something about, as was already pointed out.

 

[Stylites]

. . . it actually drags Mass out an extra 15+ minutes, despite the omitted Gloria (which is another abuse). I have no problem sitting through a 90-120+ minute Mass if it’s for a legitimate purpose, but not because the priest and deacon feel the need to be comedians.

They sound like they have a good sense of humor, as certainly does God. Good for you that you are being shepherded by joyous people, and get an extra 15 minutes in God’s presence as a bonus!

 

[Love_Divine]

They sound like they have a good sense of humor, as certainly does God. Good for you that you are being shepherded by joyous people, and get an extra 15 minutes in God’s presence as a bonus!