How would you defend Life in light of the following situation?

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Excellent. Thank you. Now I have to wait for or create an “opening”. Until then I will play devil’s advocate and look for holes, questions that might come up. And work on my approach; I’ve been told I can be intimidating. Me. I’m a creampuff.
 
Bruised Reed:
A married woman with 5 children is pregnant. She has been advised to abort because her health and life is in jeopardy. She doesn’t want an abortion and has the baby. But the woman dies leaving 6 children without a mother. Unfortunately, the father of the children is kind of a deadbeat; he drinks and doesn’t care for the children. Ultimately, the minor children end up in foster care (not in the same home).

Keeping in mind this tragic situation how would you defend the pro-life position.
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In the world of moral absolutes:
-Baby = human being
-human being = inherent dignity and absolute right to life
-killing human being with inherent dignity and right to life = wrong
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In the world proposed by your scenario:
-baby less deserving of life than mother = moral relativism
-moral relativism = right to life is not absolute
-right to life not absolute = everyone’s head on the chopping block because there is someone (ie, government) deciding who has more relative worth based on subjective criteria
 
Bruised Reed:
Excellent. Thank you. Now I have to wait for or create an “opening”. Until then I will play devil’s advocate and look for holes, questions that might come up. And work on my approach; I’ve been told I can be intimidating. Me. I’m a creampuff.
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Remember, you have to SHOW, not tell. That can be a very emotional experience.
 
God is pretty smart about God business. He, in His infinite wisdom gave us a commandment not to kill (murder). There are no loopholes or special circumstances, just a commandment not to murder, which abortion certainly qualifies for. He didn’t give us His reasons, just His commandments. For me, “nuff said”.
 
This is just a cop-out to be selfish in all other situations because someone thinks rare occassions are cause for a change in position on life - not true.

So the mother is pregnant with her 6th and should take care of her other 5 - even at the cost of one of her own children??

Well let’s put it in light of another similiar and rare scene to see if we come to the same conclusion then.

A mother of 6 is crossing the street in the “ducks in a row” pattern. Most of the children have already made it to the other side safely, but mom and the slow walking toddler on still in the middle of the road. A car comes around the corner and she has a split second to decide:
  1. push the toddler out harms way and risk her own life or
  2. run for the curb alone and know she’ll be around to raise her 5 children - although he youngest will be dead.
I have never met a man or woman who would even give the 2nd option a thought - this is their child and they would gladly give their life for him/her. No question, no regret… only joy that their baby lived.

So now, I ask you why does it matter how old the baby is? Is the love that mush less at 2 months then 2 years? Is it non-existant at 8 months gestation?

All pregnancies come with a level of risk, why is the focus on her being pregant for the 6th time? Would it go over better if she had dies with the 1st or 2nd??? I doubt it. As for the anger in the children and the foolish hubby left behind… I’d wager they’re more angry at God and their dad than their dead mom, but it’s easier to blame her. I’ve also noticed that children in these situatins often absorb and reflect the feelings of those around them - surely a loving family would be able to lead them to see their many blessings and the gift of a mother who loved them each so dearly?
 
Well, I guess I am going to be in the minority here.

I pray I never find myself in this situation. If I had children, healthy, living children and found myself in a situation where my pregnancy had a greater chance of causing my death than not, then I would have to go with the abortion. I cannot justify leaving my children here in this world without their mother when it could have been prevented. Yes, I believe abortion is wrong. But when it comes to choosing what would be best for my family, they come first. God will take care of that unborn child. Who will care for my children?

Like I said, I’ll probably be in the minority here. But this is how I feel.
 
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marilee27:
Well, I guess I am going to be in the minority here.

I pray I never find myself in this situation. If I had children, healthy, living children and found myself in a situation where my pregnancy had a greater chance of causing my death than not, then I would have to go with the abortion. I cannot justify leaving my children here in this world without their mother when it could have been prevented. Yes, I believe abortion is wrong. But when it comes to choosing what would be best for my family, they come first. God will take care of that unborn child. Who will care for my children?

Like I said, I’ll probably be in the minority here. But this is how I feel.
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I take it you are not Catholic?
 
vern humphrey:
I take it you are not Catholic?
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Born, raised and practicing. Just because I have my own opinions and moral code does not make me a Protestant…🙂

I follow the Church in most aspects. But when it comes to my health, my body, my family, I do what I feel is the best thing, what I believe God would have me do. Not the Pope or my priest or people on a chat forum. No disrespect intended.

I think you will find a lot of devout Catholics in the same situation.
 
a story… a mother of 10 finds that she is pregnant with her 11th child when she is 44 years old. during a routine pre-natal check in about her 6th month the doctor finds a lump on her left breast. A biopsy is done and the lump is found to be cancerous.There are two options, one is to end the pregnancy, remove the breast and begin aggressive therapy,two is the option to wait until the baby is born and hope that the tumor hasn’t grown measurably, remove the breast and begin treatment in three months. The doctors advise to choose option number one.The woman and her husband after much prayer and reflection choose option number two. Enter the Faithful from her church, including a whole convent of nuns. The Rosary is prayed continuously, day and night. The Blessed Mother, who lost her own child, is called upon to intercede with her Son. Two months and two weeks later, the breast is removed and now they wait for the child to come so treatment can begin. Rosary beads are singing, they can only hope and pray that all will turn out O.K. Saint Josephs day 1962, Baby girl arrives and is healthy, she is named Mary Jo(for the blessed Virgin who interceded, and the saint who’s feast day she arrived on) The mother begins treatment and the Rosary is still prayed. That mother turned 87 this year, she wears something blue everyday in honor of our Blessed Virgin Mary. I beleive my mother made the right decision, I turned 43 on Saint Josephs day last weekend. My mother would make the same decision again today, not knowing what the outcome would be, for this I OWE HER MY LIFE. Always choose life. Thanks for letting me tell her story and mine!!!
I shall be a defender of Mary
 
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marilee27:
Born, raised and practicing. Just because I have my own opinions and moral code does not make me a Protestant…
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If you put that decision of yours into effect, you will not be Catholic any longer – a person who participates in an abortion ix excommunicated latae sententae.
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marilee27:
I follow the Church in most aspects. But when it comes to my health, my body, my family, I do what I feel is the best thing, what I believe God would have me do. Not the Pope or my priest or people on a chat forum. No disrespect intended.

I think you will find a lot of devout Catholics in the same situation.
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I would not call a Cafeteria Catholic “devout,” especially in an issue as grave as this.
 
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maryj:
a story… a mother of 10 finds that she is pregnant with her 11th child when she is 44 years old. during a routine pre-natal check in about her 6th month the doctor finds a lump on her left breast. A biopsy is done and the lump is found to be cancerous.There are two options, one is to end the pregnancy, remove the breast and begin aggressive therapy,two is the option to wait until the baby is born and hope that the tumor hasn’t grown measurably, remove the breast and begin treatment in three months. The doctors advise to choose option number one.The woman and her husband after much prayer and reflection choose option number two. Enter the Faithful from her church, including a whole convent of nuns. The Rosary is prayed continuously, day and night. The Blessed Mother, who lost her own child, is called upon to intercede with her Son. Two months and two weeks later, the breast is removed and now they wait for the child to come so treatment can begin. Rosary beads are singing, they can only hope and pray that all will turn out O.K. Saint Josephs day 1962, Baby girl arrives and is healthy, she is named Mary Jo(for the blessed Virgin who interceded, and the saint who’s feast day she arrived on) The mother begins treatment and the Rosary is still prayed. That mother turned 87 this year, she wears something blue everyday in honor of our Blessed Virgin Mary. I beleive my mother made the right decision, I turned 43 on Saint Josephs day last weekend. My mother would make the same decision again today, not knowing what the outcome would be, for this I OWE HER MY LIFE. Always choose life. Thanks for letting me tell her story and mine!!!
I shall be a defender of Mary
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A beautiful story – and one that illustrates how we have to take what God gives us, and not assume His powers upon ourselves.
 
For those Catholics who think there is latitude in the Church’s teaching on abortion:

Canon 1398 provides that, “a person who procures a successful abortion incurs an automatic (latae sententiae) excommunication.” This means that at the very moment that the abortion is successfully accomplished, the woman and all formal conspirators are excommunicated.

An abortion is defined as “the killing of the foetus, in whatever way or at whatever time from the moment of conception” (Pontifical Council for the Interpretation of Legislative Texts, published in the “Acts of the Apostolic See” vol. 80 (1988), 1818). This definition applies to any means, including drugs, by which a human being present in the woman is killed. Thus, once a woman knows she is pregnant the intentional killing of the new life within her is not only murder but an excommunicable offense. A woman who only thinks she might be pregnant has a grave responsibility to find out and to protect the possible life within. Any action to end a “possible” pregnancy while probably not an excommunicable offense would be callous disregard for life and gravely sinful.

Conspirators who incur the excommunication can be defined as those who make access to the abortion possible. This certainly includes doctors and nurses who actually do it, husbands, family and others whose counsel and encouragement made it morally possible for the woman, and those whose direct practical support made it possible (financially, driving to the clinic etc.).
 
vern, for a lack of a better word, how could one or could one become Un-excommunicated. Thanks for your response.

I shall be a defender of Mary
 
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maryj:
vern, for a lack of a better word, how could one or could one become Un-excommunicated. Thanks for your response.

I shall be a defender of Mary
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The power to readmit to communion in this case lies with the Bishop. Priests cannot do it.

It is wonderful to be a defender of Mary – why not also defend her unborn children?
 
When God tells me I can’t worship him in Church anymore, I’ll stop going.

Catholics have strayed from God and listen to man instead. Sad.
 
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marilee27:
When God tells me I can’t worship him in Church anymore, I’ll stop going…
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Will you listen when God speaks?

His Church has clearly condemned abortion from the very first.
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marilee27:
Catholics have strayed from God and listen to man instead. Sad.
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Indeed they have – far too many Catholics have stopped listening to God and instead listen to the priests of the Cult of Death.
 
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marilee27:
Well, I guess I am going to be in the minority here.

I pray I never find myself in this situation. If I had children, healthy, living children and found myself in a situation where my pregnancy had a greater chance of causing my death than not, then I would have to go with the abortion. I cannot justify leaving my children here in this world without their mother when it could have been prevented. Yes, I believe abortion is wrong. But when it comes to choosing what would be best for my family, they come first. God will take care of that unborn child. Who will care for my children?

Like I said, I’ll probably be in the minority here. But this is how I feel.
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You said you are a Catholic. You said that. But in your Personal Profile you listed Religion a “NOT APPLICABLE”. Why is religion NOT APPLICABLE?

Marilee, you are not a Catholic if you disagree with the teachings of the Church. Sorry, but that is true! As soon as I hear one say they believe that abortion is OK I wonder about other things like contraception, extramarital sex and taking communion when in mortal sin.
 
maryj what a BEAUTIFUL story. Thank you. I think we all need some good news on this grim day. Your mother sounds like a very blessed woman.

Lisa N
 
Marilee27 has been very busy today; defending abortion, defending euthanasia, and in her 1st post on 3/10, arguing whether Mary was sinless. Catholic? I think not.
T
 
Terri’s mother chooses life too. I have turned my prayers toward her today and ask that God’s will be done. And yes my mother is a blessed woman, thank you

I shall be a defender of Mary
 
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