How would you fix the U.S health care system?

[PetraG]

Topic is in first post. You can scroll up to see. Are you new to CAF? Sorry not sure

If you think I’m new, I think you must be new, lol.
You threw out a premise. Defend it, rather than deflecting logical objections to it (if you can).

 

[PetraG]

Lots of ways to examine it without detailing thread (if you can)

In other words, no, you have no answer to my objection to your premise.
You just wrote your premise and expected readers to accept it without question?
Who’s new here, lol?

 

[JimG]

I have no idea how to fix healthcare. But here are some docs who write about it.

Archived Blogs Archives - Authentic Medicine

 

[Erikaspirit16]

Are you aware that overall public systems in the developed world have better outcomes than the US system?

False? I’ll repeat what I said above:

And if you want to break it down and take a look at the mortality rates from specific diseases and accidents, go to http://sites.nationalacademies.org/DBASSE/CPOP/DBASSE_080393#deaths-from-all-causes and see where the US ranks compared to 16 other developed countries. It’s near or at the bottom in virtually every category and disease.

I know some of you now live in a world of “alternative facts” but please…

Again all false

All those stats are PRIVATE SPENDING. Of course US has more PRIVATE spending since many of countries don’t offer PRIVATE insurance.

Your link says PUBLIC spending in US is about same as other countries

And quality healthcare is falsely linked to life expectancy when countless others non-healthcare factors affect life expectancy (genetics of population, lifestyle of population, etc)

Nonsense. As for “non-healthcare factors” are you REALLY saying that the US is somehow unique? That somehow Canadians are genetically superior? That Canadians have a “different lifestyle”? Really? As I said, nonsense.

 

[Aquinas11]

Your theory that life expectancy is solely caused by quality of available healthcare is so laughable it’s hard to take seriously. Per your theory, people in Zimbabwe (life expectancy 54) could move to Japan (life expectancy 84) and once their feet touch Japanese soil their life expectancy would shoot up 30 years.

 

[buffalo]

Adult stem cell therapy will bend health care costs down.

 

[Erikaspirit16]

Your theory that life expectancy is solely caused by quality of available healthcare is so laughable it’s hard to take seriously. Per your theory, people in Zimbabwe (life expectancy 54) could move to Japan (life expectancy 84) and once their feet touch Japanese soil their life expectancy would shoot up 30 years.

I see why you’re having trouble with facts–faulty logic.

 

[Aquinas11]

I see why you’re having trouble with facts–faulty logic.

Yet you can’t respond. You call anything other than healthcare (genetics, lifestyle) as a factor affecting life expectancy as “nonsense”. There is a reason every medical intake form asks you about your family history , whether your parents, grandparents had cancer, stroke, etc. Your theory would be much better if it conceded that at least other factors beyond healthcare affect life expectancy, but it is so ideological it can’t even concede what every medical professional knows (and every patient knows who visits a doctor and fills out paperwork).

 

[Erikaspirit16]

Yet you can’t respond. You call anything other than healthcare (genetics, lifestyle) as a factor affecting life expectancy as “nonsense”.

OK, fine. I’ll respond. No one, certainly not me, EVER said that “healthcare” (however narrowly or widely you want to define it) is the SOLE determinant of life expectancy.

But I think it should be obvious that, when you look at the statistics, it is a LARGE factor, probably the major factor. And it is clear from studies too numerous to list that when healthcare improves, life expectancy improves (other things being equal–i.e., there is no major war, ebola outbreak, etc.).

And yes, diseases like diabetes have a genetic component. But if you take a look at the site I have listed twice before –http://sites.nationalacademies.org/DBASSE/CPOP/DBASSE_080393#deaths-from-all-causes

–you can clearly see where the US ranks in mortality from a large variety of diseases in relation to 16 other developed countries. And the ranking–with a few exceptions, like TB–is consistently at or near the bottom. Often the US is several TIMES worse than the next worst country. Clearly this is due to the healthcare available in those other countries.

Again, the US system is an historical relic. It was pieced together, mostly after WW II, and never has been a cohesive, coherent system. No one in their right minds who is designing a healthcare system for a country would say “Oooohhh…let’s adopt the US system…it’s so efficient and effective!!!” And yes, like gun control, you can tinker around with this and that, but the only REAL solution is to start over. Do you really think that EVERY OTHER developed country (and a lot of undeveloped ones too) is wrong to have a single payer system? Are they all stupid or crazy? Or is the US stupid or crazy?

 

[Erikaspirit16]

Per your theory, people in Zimbabwe (life expectancy 54) could move to Japan (life expectancy 84) and once their feet touch Japanese soil their life expectancy would shoot up 30 years.

I never said that, of course. You did. But sure, if you want to use that example, a 50-year-old man from Zimbabwe could move to Japan and yes, his life expectancy would improve because he now has access to much better healthcare. Would his life expectancy be the same as a Japanese man who has been in the Japanese healthcare system all his life? Of course not. But it would certainly improve.

 

[Aquinas11]

OK, fine. I’ll respond. No one, certainly not me, EVER said that “healthcare” (however narrowly or widely you want to define it) is the SOLE determinant of life expectancy.

No, you said it is “nonsense” (twice) that “non-healthcare factors” influence life expectancy. Now you’re changing your position because it was refuted.

 

[buffalo]

Trillions spent on healthcare and life expectancy is relatively flat.

The big gains were made with sanitation and infant mortality.

 

[Erikaspirit16]

No, you said it is “nonsense” (twice) that “non-healthcare factors” influence life expectancy. Now you’re changing your position because it was refuted.

Nonsense again.

You said:
“And quality healthcare is falsely linked to life expectancy when countless others non-healthcare factors affect life expectancy (genetics of population, lifestyle of population, etc)”

to which I replied:

“Nonsense. As for “non-healthcare factors” are you REALLY saying that the US is somehow unique? That somehow Canadians are genetically superior? That Canadians have a “different lifestyle”? Really? As I said, nonsense.”

To say, as you did, that “quality healthcare is falsely linked to life expectancy” is nonsense. It’s probably THE main determinant. Is it the ONLY determinant? No–I never said it was. That was your false logic.

 

[twf]

No… only American Catholics who happen to be republicans choose to interpret Church teaching in this manner. The Church does not condemn universal health care. On the contrary, Pope Francis has called health care a universal “right”. The socialism historically condemned by the Church is communism… Marxism… not social democracy. I hear this a lot on CAF and it’s highly misleading…

We can disagree on various elements of social democracies… but to pretend that the Magisterium condemns it outright is wrong. The definition of “socialism” sometimes used on CAF would logically lead one to condemn public roads… and police… and fire fighters…

 

[Aquinas11]

That was your false logic.

Apparently you didnt’ see where you said “As for ‘non-healthcare factors’…” after which you falsely attempted to disprove the explicit non-healthcare factors I listed (genetics, lifestyle) with explicit language followed by the second “nonsense”. Now saying complete opposite that they do affect life expectancy, completely incoherent.

 

[whatistrue]

Anecdotal isn’t evidence.

Would you even recognize actual evidence, or just deny it exists if it doesn’t fit your narrative? You have consistently denied or deflected when presented with legitimate (if debatable) evidence or statistics, or when you had a statement challenged, cried “off topic”.

 

[Aquinas11]

In response to a post where I recognize what is not evidence, you ask if I can recognize evidence.

You can’t make this up.

 

[whatistrue]

Is it really that hard to recognize a convenient place to hang the statement? Or maybe this is yet another deny, deflect, declare victory bit. Maybe it’s just me, but it looks like a familiar pattern that has been getting more prevalent lately in the real world lately.

 

[Bon_Croix]

Top or near top of list…, get rid of regulations. Hospitalizations cost more due to meeting excessive government demands. Too many forms to fill out. It’s ashame that when you bruise your toe you have to answer questions about whether it was work related–All part of the red tape of worker’s compensation.

In other words, more freedom.

 

[Crocus]

It’s ashame that when you bruise your toe you have to answer questions about whether it was work related–All part of the red tape of worker’s compensation.

In other words, more freedom.

If it so happened that your bruised toe was the result of a work related injury, wouldn’t you want that recorded on your file, so that in the case it caused you to miss a lot of work in the future, your wages would be covered by workers’ compensation?

One man’s red tape is another’s evidence for claim.