How would you go about "growing" a small EC parish?

[Peter_J]

Can you share with us what sucess would look like to you?

My parish, for example, has quadrupled attendance in 10 years. To the outsider, that would not look like success, however. To us, who know what it was like before, it is tremendous. We have gone from an attendance of 8-10 little old ladies and a few old men, to a vibrant parish of 23 families, with attendance of 60-80 every Sunday. We also have extremely committed families. This is tremendous growth, but we have a long way to go. We are not self-sustaining and we rely on the generosity of our bishop and outsiders to make our bills. We have no rectory and our priest has to work a 2nd full-time job to support his family. We would have to double in size before we could really be self-supporting, but one cannot expect these things to happen overnight. It isn’t like you hold an event, and all of a sudden your pews are full of contributing parishoners.

So, how have we more than quadrupled attendance in 10 years? We have a few events, but honestly, they are extremely difficult for our parish to put on. We simply don’t have the manpower. Our pastor is working 2 jobs, and most of us are either quite elderly or have several young children. We finally have some teenagers and we hope to be able to put them to work in the near future. We are also a commuter parish, as most in the eparchy are. We come from all over the city to be able to attend the parish that we love and spend time with our church family, but this situation makes it difficult to have an active parish life during the week.

Everybody in our parish has a story, how they came to visit, and what made them stay. For me, it is my childhood parish. I came back for a visit after more than 15 years, because I missed it. The more I just visited, the more I missed it. Finally, I told my husband that I really wanted to be there full-time, because the parish was in dire straits, and if everybody just visited, rather than making a committement to the parish, it would not be there for me to visit.

Other familes visit for various reasons, and stay for various reasons. Probably 1/3 of our parish are converts to Catholicism and a good number of those have been baptized and/or chrismated in our parish. Most of the families in our parish are quite large, and we are very family-friendly. Nobody is going to look at you with anything but sympathy if your kids act up sometimes. For the most part, people visit because they know somebody who goes there, because somebody has made a personal connection with them and invited them. Sometimes, a connection is made and those people stay. We have one parishioner who is there because he reached out for a priest in a time of crisis, and our priest took the time to listen. He’s one of the few who lives in the neighborhood.

We have always had a coffee hour after the liturgy, but for nearly 6 years now, we have had a full-blown lunch. Father refers to it as our own miracle, that we have managed to keep it up for so long. We have an entirely volunteer sign-up sheet to take a week to feed the parish after liturgy. Usually we plan to feed 50 -60. I cook about every 6 weeks. Not everyone participates, and sometimes single people join together a few times a year to contribute. This is something that seems to appeal to visitors.

I wish we were able to do bible studies and outreach and various activities, and so does our pastor, but we are limited in the scope of what we can do by our size and the availability of our families and priest I think we’ve done pretty well with what we have.

While reaching out to other Catholic parishes is important, it is not evangelization and should not be a significant way in which our parishes attract people. Our pastor says Mass at a parish near his home a twice a week, and also hears confessions there. His kids go to school there, so they are quite involved in that community as well. We regularly get visitors from that parish. For several years, the 8th grade class from a local Catholic school has come for a tour of our church. We occasionally get RCIA classes and somebody in the parish regularly invites all RCIA groups in the area. When I returned to the parish after a long absence, I did so by brinigng my high school religious education class from the parish that I had been attending.

We get visitors “off the street” pretty regularly, often looking for the parish down the street. They are the least likely to return. Sometimes, they don’t even stay for the whole liturgy. I think they are worried that they aren’t really in a Catholic Church, or maybe it just is too long for them. We try to reassure them, but if they’ve never heard of the Byzantine rite before they come, our picture of the Pope on the wall seems unable to convince them.

Mostly, though the question is this: Once we get people through the door, how do we keep them? They have to find Christ in us. They have to encounter a people, starting with the priest, but flowing to the entire parish, that is honestly seeking to find Christ and to live a life of holiness. We have to reach out to one another with the very love of Christ, to bring him to each other in the way we worship and the way we love. That is our purpose for existing. Without that, all of our efforts at outreach, no matter how grand or humble, are in vain.

Awesome post.

 

[babochka]

It’s something I have concluded after I started this thread. So in that sense, this thread was worthwhile.

Don’t give up. No pastor wants his parish to fail. Every priest, as every person, has strengths and weaknesses. You have come upon the weaknesses of your pastor. Perhaps outreach and evangelization are not his strengths. Find another way. Do it yourself on a small scale. Bring people to experience the liturgy. Build up the body of Christ, your parish family, through your love. Others will do the same. You have a wonderful parish. I have been welcomed there a number of times. I spent time with some of the women of your parish last year at the eparchial women’s retreat. They are wonderful, loving and yes, flawed, human beings. The Holy Spirit can and work through you, your fellow parishioners, and even your current and former pastor.

 

[Draper]

Don’t give up. No pastor wants his parish to fail. Every priest, as every person, has strengths and weaknesses. You have come upon the weaknesses of your pastor. Perhaps outreach and evangelization are not his strengths. Find another way. Do it yourself on a small scale. Bring people to experience the liturgy. Build up the body of Christ, your parish family, through your love. Others will do the same. You have a wonderful parish. I have been welcomed there a number of times. I spent time with some of the women of your parish last year at the eparchial women’s retreat. They are wonderful, loving and yes, flawed, human beings. The Holy Spirit can and work through you, your fellow parishioners, and even your current and former pastor.

Outreach and evangelization are definitely not strengths of the parish – nor are they of most Catholic parishes and that’s a real problem. A parish may never really get “strong” at either but it does need to work at both – it needs to become competent at both.

Ignoring that critical need (largely because both are difficult and time consuming) and simply suggesting that parishes find “another way” is hugely problematic. Not because it’s wrong to try other avenues, but because it’s wrong not to develop outreach and evangelization capabilities.

If one really breaks down why so many Catholic parishes are so poor at outreach, evangelization and fundraising it comes down to a handful or reasons:

1. Lack of leadership (for a variety of reasons.)
2. All three are very hard work and they take considerable time. Hard work that never ends.
3. Whether they want to admit to it or not, many don’t want parish growth. The prospect of growth scares them (all change can be difficult) and it could lesson the level of control they now have which they covet.
4. Most have no idea about how to even begin. If they honestly dug into the topics and studied them with an open mind, they would find that many of their preconceptions are in error which would turn them off even further.
5. It’s too easy/satisfying to change the subject (“just look at our new vestments!”) or to attack new ideas.
6. It’s too easy to blame others.

The problem with the “small scale” approach is that people visit and then leave never to return because the parish has stagnated for so long that many of those remaining aren’t necessarily all that welcoming to newcomers.

What’s really interesting is that decades ago, the parish was competent at all three. It had to be else it would have never survived.

 

[RedSoxFan45]

I am posting to add a few of my own thoughts, that may or may not be helpful. I

Catholic evangelization is a lot different then evangelical or protestant evangelization. The later is centered more on emotionalism. Couple that with making it simple to become a full participating member and you create a recipe for easy conversions.

The Catholic conversion tends to be more intellectually oriented. (This is in generally but obviously not in every single case). Even former Catholics who come back to the Church, usually undergo a long drawn out processes of reading, and trying to disprove every angle until they are satisfied. What this means for Parishes is that local outreaches are not going to be as effective as people would expect. A person isn’t going to show up and think “This is so much fun that I need to come back and be part of this community.”

If you want to win more people in the pews it’s going to be done by challenging peoples views when they go against the Church. Not in a confrontational way, and not in a way where you plan to “win” the argument. You present a different point of view that a person probably has never heard before because Christians are portrayed in the media as stupid and uneducated folks who just haven’t been taught how science disproves their core values. Growing up in the North East, there are not many Christians, and I was one of those people who had never been challenged about my beliefs on various topics. Once it finally happened, and I needed to actually research things to back up my views, I was shocked at how well thought out many Christian ideals are.

The other way I would recommend is through charity work. People might be curious what your Parish is all about if they see you out there helping people and the community. A St. Francis approach often seems to work well.

I’ve never tried this, but I’ve heard that simply inviting people to Mass(in your case the divine liturgy) may be helpful.

I pray your Parish endures.

 

[Peter_J]

I am posting to add a few of my own thoughts, that may or may not be helpful. I

Catholic evangelization is a lot different then evangelical or protestant evangelization. The later is centered more on emotionalism. Couple that with making it simple to become a full participating member and you create a recipe for easy conversions.

The Catholic conversion tends to be more intellectually oriented. (This is in generally but obviously not in every single case). Even former Catholics who come back to the Church, usually undergo a long drawn out processes of reading, and trying to disprove every angle until they are satisfied. What this means for Parishes is that local outreaches are not going to be as effective as people would expect. A person isn’t going to show up and think “This is so much fun that I need to come back and be part of this community.”

If you want to win more people in the pews it’s going to be done by challenging peoples views when they go against the Church. Not in a confrontational way, and not in a way where you plan to “win” the argument. You present a different point of view that a person probably has never heard before because Christians are portrayed in the media as stupid and uneducated folks who just haven’t been taught how science disproves their core values. Growing up in the North East, there are not many Christians, and I was one of those people who had never been challenged about my beliefs on various topics. Once it finally happened, and I needed to actually research things to back up my views, I was shocked at how well thought out many Christian ideals are.

The other way I would recommend is through charity work. People might be curious what your Parish is all about if they see you out there helping people and the community. A St. Francis approach often seems to work well.

I’ve never tried this, but I’ve heard that simply inviting people to Mass(in your case the divine liturgy) may be helpful.

I pray your Parish endures.

I had a feeling you were going to say something about Eastern Catholicism at some point. Nice to see I was right.

 

[Peter_J]

P.S. Go Sox!

 

[babochka]

Outreach and evangelization are definitely not strengths of the parish – nor are they of most Catholic parishes and that’s a real problem. A parish may never really get “strong” at either but it does need to work at both – it needs to become competent at both.

Ignoring that critical need (largely because both are difficult and time consuming) and simply suggesting that parishes find “another way” is hugely problematic. Not because it’s wrong to try other avenues, but because it’s wrong not to develop outreach and evangelization capabilities.

If one really breaks down why so many Catholic parishes are so poor at outreach, evangelization and fundraising it comes down to a handful or reasons:

1. Lack of leadership (for a variety of reasons.)
2. All three are very hard work and they take considerable time. Hard work that never ends.
3. Whether they want to admit to it or not, many don’t want parish growth. The prospect of growth scares them (all change can be difficult) and it could lesson the level of control they now have which they covet.
4. Most have no idea about how to even begin. If they honestly dug into the topics and studied them with an open mind, they would find that many of their preconceptions are in error which would turn them off even further.
5. It’s too easy/satisfying to change the subject (“just look at our new vestments!”) or to attack new ideas.
6. It’s too easy to blame others.

The problem with the “small scale” approach is that people visit and then leave never to return because the parish has stagnated for so long that many of those remaining aren’t necessarily all that welcoming to newcomers.

What’s really interesting is that decades ago, the parish was competent at all three. It had to be else it would have never survived.

I’ve been trying to respond to this for a couple of days now, but only had the response partially formulated in my mind. Fortunately, my priest gave a homily yesterday morning that helped me to fill in what I was unable to articulate.

My first thought is that parishes don’t evangelize, people do. While I think outreach is important and even necessary (others need to know the parish exists so that the parish can do its job), effective evangelization really needs to be one-on-one, within the context of a relationship. The job of the parish is different - it is to be a place where the seekers come to learn, where believers are strengthened through the sacraments and through fellowship with one another. To prepare each of us, as individuals, to leave the confines of the parish with a strong and well-nourised faith, ready to bring that faith to others. To do this, it is necessary to be welcoming to newcomers and be ready to prepare them to be integrated into the body of Christ, but I don’t see how it is absolutely necessary for a parish-organized effort to bring them in, and I believe that people evangelizing in their everyday lives will be much more effective.

Yesterday’s gospel for the Divine Liturgy was about the Apostles being fishers of men… the original evangelizers.

Father asked the question: What do we know about fishing? What does it take to be good at this task? What it takes, more than anything else, is patience. A fisherman needs to be where the fish are and patiently wait for them to come to him. Chasing the fish down does no good, as the fish will run away. What else does a fisherman do?

He also made a point about the desert fathers. They went off and hid in the desert, desiring nothing more than to be alone in prayer, but their reputation for holiness spread, and disciples flocked to them, because the disciples wanted what the desert fathers had. Their own personal holiess, their own lifestyle, their close relationship with God, was such a draw that people sought them out. Each of us can evangelize in that way in the world. We can be so filled with the light of Christ, so overflowing with love for our fellow man, that people want what we have.

So, I’m not saying that wanting the parish to do something is wrong. When I say “find another way”, I mean that you should acknowldge the limitations and impracticality of what you seek, given the limitations within your parish, and work on your own personal efforts. When others see your effectiveness in evangelization, you can share with them what you’ve done. Your genuine enthusiasm, driven by love for Christ, can’t help but inspire them to similar efforts, which may or may not look like your efforts. Results are the measure of success, not method.

Of course, we might not get the reward from knowing what we have done. One priest, who was briefly at our parish several years ago, sat next to a young engaged couple on a bus, on the way to the Walk for Life. That conversation had an impact, and a while later, after the priest had moved on to another assignment, that young married couple, now with a young son, came to visit our parish. They have now been members of our parish for several years. When I mentioned this to the priest in question, he barely remembered the conversation. He was just being himself, full of his love for Christ and his love for the Church.

 

[Draper]

I’ve been trying to respond to this for a couple of days now, but only had the response partially formulated in my mind. Fortunately, my priest gave a homily yesterday morning that helped me to fill in what I was unable to articulate.

My first thought is that parishes don’t evangelize, people do. While I think outreach is important and even necessary (others need to know the parish exists so that the parish can do its job), effective evangelization really needs to be one-on-one, within the context of a relationship. The job of the parish is different - it is to be a place where the seekers come to learn, where believers are strengthened through the sacraments and through fellowship with one another. To prepare each of us, as individuals, to leave the confines of the parish with a strong and well-nourised faith, ready to bring that faith to others. To do this, it is necessary to be welcoming to newcomers and be ready to prepare them to be integrated into the body of Christ, but I don’t see how it is absolutely necessary for a parish-organized effort to bring them in, and I believe that people evangelizing in their everyday lives will be much more effective.

Yesterday’s gospel for the Divine Liturgy was about the Apostles being fishers of men… the original evangelizers.

Father asked the question: What do we know about fishing? What does it take to be good at this task? What it takes, more than anything else, is patience. A fisherman needs to be where the fish are and patiently wait for them to come to him. Chasing the fish down does no good, as the fish will run away. What else does a fisherman do?

He also made a point about the desert fathers. They went off and hid in the desert, desiring nothing more than to be alone in prayer, but their reputation for holiness spread, and disciples flocked to them, because the disciples wanted what the desert fathers had. Their own personal holiess, their own lifestyle, their close relationship with God, was such a draw that people sought them out. Each of us can evangelize in that way in the world. We can be so filled with the light of Christ, so overflowing with love for our fellow man, that people want what we have.

So, I’m not saying that wanting the parish to do something is wrong. When I say “find another way”, I mean that you should acknowldge the limitations and impracticality of what you seek, given the limitations within your parish, and work on your own personal efforts. When others see your effectiveness in evangelization, you can share with them what you’ve done. Your genuine enthusiasm, driven by love for Christ, can’t help but inspire them to similar efforts, which may or may not look like your efforts. Results are the measure of success, not method.

Of course, we might not get the reward from knowing what we have done. One priest, who was briefly at our parish several years ago, sat next to a young engaged couple on a bus, on the way to the Walk for Life. That conversation had an impact, and a while later, after the priest had moved on to another assignment, that young married couple, now with a young son, came to visit our parish. They have now been members of our parish for several years. When I mentioned this to the priest in question, he barely remembered the conversation. He was just being himself, full of his love for Christ and his love for the Church.

Two things come to mind. First, parish outreach and evangelization cannot be ignored. That’s a grave mistake. Doing so damages a parish. While both are certainly out of my control I am beginning to wonder if it’s my responsibility to elevate the matter.

Second, my own personal efforts will continue independent of parish-wide efforts.

 

[Draper]

I actually think that failing to plan and implement parish-wide outreach, evangelization and fundraising is why a lot of parishes ultimately close.

It almost seems that because these activities are so difficult, because they take such effort, because they are so foreign to so many and because they are such a challenge to the “turf guards” that they simply go undone and the impact is disastrous.

 

[Elizium23]

Needing to evangelize is also a new thing to most, if not all, parishes. I don’t know the current state of Eastern law, but before 1983 in the Latin Church you had to satisfy your Sunday obligation in your territorial parish. So if people were thus bound to the parish where they lived, it made very little sense to reach out to anyone except those in your neighborhood. This is still somewhat true today, when people need their sacraments they are bound to their territorial parish and pastor. But some jurisdictions treat boundaries very loosely, and people, especially in the US are so mobile, that they will readily drive an hour or two to attend the parish of their choice. So evangelization has gone from not-an-option to a requirement!

My parish undertook a door-to-door evangelization project several years ago when we reached out to everyone in our territorial boundaries. While great spiritual benefits were reaped by both the evangelists and our neighbors, we did not experience a great tangible benefit in the way of increased attendance or interest.

Lately our pastor is reading Rebuilt and implementing bits and pieces, which I think are both extraordinarily bad ideas. Rebuilt is an ideal recipe if your plan is to build a community a mile wide and an inch deep, but its megachurchy ideas are so out of sync with traditional parish structure, that pastors are guaranteed to get pushback from people in the vein of “we just don’t do it that way!”

Ethnic EC parishes in thr diaspora have a difficult mission. They used to depend on immigration and rapid family growth for parish health, and neither of those is a factor anymore. The sad fact is that no families are growing, so there are many parishes, both Latin and Eastern, that will necessarily close due to shrinking numbers.

Whatever happens, I hope that pastors do not water down or compromise moral teachings in attempts to stay relevant, because how is that working out for the Anglican Communion.

 

[babochka]

Needing to evangelize is also a new thing to most, if not all, parishes. I don’t know the current state of Eastern law, but before 1983 in the Latin Church you had to satisfy your Sunday obligation in your territorial parish. So if people were thus bound to the parish where they lived, it made very little sense to reach out to anyone except those in your neighborhood. This is still somewhat true today, when people need their sacraments they are bound to their territorial parish and pastor. But some jurisdictions treat boundaries very loosely, and people, especially in the US are so mobile, that they will readily drive an hour or two to attend the parish of their choice. So evangelization has gone from not-an-option to a requirement!

Are you talking about evangelizing the baptized, but non church-going Catholics? Or about trying to make one Catholic parish a more attractive option for practicing Catholics? Because the latter is not evangelization.

My parish undertook a door-to-door evangelization project several years ago when we reached out to everyone in our territorial boundaries. While great spiritual benefits were reaped by both the evangelists and our neighbors, we did not experience a great tangible benefit in the way of increased attendance or interest.

This is interesting to know. What approach did the evangelists take, and how were they received? I was recently visited by Mormon missionaries as I was moving in to my new home. They didn’t share their message with me at first. Instead, they saw that I was a bit overwhelmed trying to move in and organize with a new baby and 5 older kids, so they offered to help unpack, clean my bathroom, mow my lawn… whatever I needed. They apologetically said that the only thing they could not do was babysit, which is, of course, what I needed most. I declined the help, only because what I needed done was stuff I needed to do myself (like unpacking and organizing). They came by 3 times, and only asked me if I had a church on the 3rd visit. I liked their approach.

Lately our pastor is reading Rebuilt and implementing bits and pieces, which I think are both extraordinarily bad ideas. Rebuilt is an ideal recipe if your plan is to build a community a mile wide and an inch deep, but its megachurchy ideas are so out of sync with traditional parish structure, that pastors are guaranteed to get pushback from people in the vein of “we just don’t do it that way!”

This has been my impression in my limited exposure to the book and the approach.

Ethnic EC parishes in thr diaspora have a difficult mission. They used to depend on immigration and rapid family growth for parish health, and neither of those is a factor anymore.

This is the biggest challenge that our parishes have. We were founded to serve the needs of a particular ethnic community. The children and grandchildren of those immigrants have moved out of the community, been assimilated into the much larger (and easier to get to) Latin Church, or left the church altogether. We have 2 Ukrainian churches in town - one is Ukrainian speaking and very ethnic, one English speaking and not at all ethnic. The former is thriving, but they have current and recent immigration. Outreach to other Catholics and beyond is important so that people know that we exist. There are many who would embrace our liturgy and spirituality if they had exposure to it, but they simply don’t know about us. When they do stumble upon us, without any knowledge of our exisitence, they assume we are Orthodox. Potential converts who seek Eastern spirituality and theology likely find it in Orthodox churches. Our priests are discouraged from actively seeking members from Latin parishes. Some of my parish’s members are Latin Rite reverts. Upon coming back to Christ, they were drawn to Orthodoxy, but knew from their childhood catechesis that they needed to be in communion with the pope.

The sad fact is that no families are growing, so there are many parishes, both Latin and Eastern, that will necessarily close due to shrinking numbers.

Definitely not the case in here. I have 6 children, which is just about the median for my parish.

Whatever happens, I hope that pastors do not water down or compromise moral teachings in attempts to stay relevant, because how is that working out for the Anglican Communion.

That would be disastrous for the faith and for attendance.

 

[Draper]

I suspect those pastors and parishes that are quickest to judge/dismiss outreach, evengelization and external fundraising ideas are those that do the least of all three. That’s terribly sad but it seems to be a reality.

The “package” outlined in Rebuilt definitely isn’t for all parishes, but I’m certain that important ideas could be gleaned from that source and others by those serious about outreach, evengelization and external fundraising. Combined with other ideas, a program tailored for a specific parish could be crafted (and continually adjusted) to really benefit a parish.

Sadly it’s far easier to criticize and do nothing (or next to nothing) and that’s what I see in far too many Catholic parishes.

 

[Draper]

…Outreach to other Catholics and beyond is important so that people know that we exist. There are many who would embrace our liturgy and spirituality if they had exposure to it, but they simply don’t know about us. When they do stumble upon us, without any knowledge of our exisitence, they assume we are Orthodox…

My EC parish is nearly 30 years old. It’s located off a busy street in a great neighborhood in a busy little college town. Yet very few know it exists. The founding pastor used to lament that the parish “is the best kept secret in town.” He stopped doing that when it became too painful to hear.

I could take a sheet of paper right now and fill it with readily implementable ideas requiring little or no $$$ that would increase the positive visibility of our parish in town. There are others in the parish that have the same ability (even greater is my guess) to do the same thing.

Yet when ideas are presented they are either rejected out of hand by the pastor (often in front of others), they are ignored altogether (especially if offered via email or written note) or (depending on the pastor) in rare instances promises are made to consider the proposed ideas and the promises are not kept.

One concrete example is advertising via social media. A local Protestant church does a remarkable job at sending people tasteful and timely “greetings” via Facebook at Easter, Christmas and a few other holidays like Memorial Day. I was really curious how they were targeting me so I went looking for the common link that associated me with this church.

It turned out to be someone I went to high school with. I asked if it had been successful for his church (a smaller mainline Protestant church)? They had been doing it for a year and the parish had grown by a number larger than my entire EC parish – growth that had come specifically from advertising via Facebook and Twitter. I asked about the cost? $5.00/week. (His parish now spends more than that on Facebook advertising.)

I went to my EC pastor (the parish already maintains a FB page) and explained the situation and opportunity. He said and I quote “No, we will not pay!!” without any form of explanation. He was so harsh about it that it made me feel as if I had suggested something morally wrong.

The opportunity was so great that I approached him again and received the same answer – in even harsher terms. I pushed for an explanation why but he wouldn’t/couldn’t give one. I considered just paying the $5.00/week myself, but I was so disgusted at that point, I just let the matter fall through the great crack in the floor.

I realize there is plenty of ignorance and prejudice when it comes to social media (it’s lessening now as it becomes more accepted – much like email in the past), but I don’t think my experience was in any way unique.

This is an example of the sort of thing that absolutely KILLS parishioners’ motivation to get involved and to help.

 

[babochka]

My EC parish is nearly 30 years old. It’s located off a busy street in a great neighborhood in a busy little college town. Yet very few know it exists. The founding pastor used to lament that the parish “is the best kept secret in town.” He stopped doing that when it became too painful to hear.

I could take a sheet of paper right now and fill it with readily implementable ideas requiring little or no $$$ that would increase the positive visibility of our parish in town. There are others in the parish that have the same ability (even greater is my guess) to do the same thing.

Yet when ideas are presented they are either rejected out of hand by the pastor (often in front of others), they are ignored altogether (especially if offered via email or written note) or (depending on the pastor) in rare instances promises are made to consider the proposed ideas and the promises are not kept.

I do understand your great frustration here. We have a wonderful “best kept secret” in our Eastern Catholic parishes and it is painful to think that they could close and we (and others) could have prevented it. It is frustrating to deal with entrenched attitudes that will accept nothing new and innovated because “it won’t work” without even being willing to try.

I don’t think that publicly calling out your current and former pastors as “harsh, coarse, self-centered, attention-seeking” , who don’t keep promises and are generally incompetent and uninterested in growth is going to win you any friends anywhere, particularly when your parish is readily identifiable to anyone with a little inside knowledge or willingness to do some research. There aren’t many west coast college towns of about 60,000 with a small Ruthenian parish about 30 years old. I think you can probably manage to express your frustrations and ideas with greater charity toward your pastor. Whether you like it or not, he is appointed in a position of authority over you. Publicly bashing him, whether he is identifiable or not, is disrespectful and inappropriate. If you have issues with him, there are appropriate places to voice your concerns. Blabbing them all over the internet is not the way to deal with real issues, nor an appropriate venue for venting.

One concrete example is advertising via social media. A local Protestant church does a remarkable job at sending people tasteful and timely “greetings” via Facebook at Easter, Christmas and a few other holidays like Memorial Day. I was really curious how they were targeting me so I went looking for the common link that associated me with this church.

It turned out to be someone I went to high school with. I asked if it had been successful for his church (a smaller mainline Protestant church)? They had been doing it for a year and the parish had grown by a number larger than my entire EC parish – growth that had come specifically from advertising via Facebook and Twitter. I asked about the cost? $5.00/week. (His parish now spends more than that on Facebook advertising.)

I went to my EC pastor (the parish already maintains a FB page) and explained the situation and opportunity. He said and I quote “No, we will not pay!!” without any form of explanation. He was so harsh about it that it made me feel as if I had suggested something morally wrong.

The opportunity was so great that I approached him again and received the same answer – in even harsher terms. I pushed for an explanation why but he wouldn’t/couldn’t give one. I considered just paying the $5.00/week myself, but I was so disgusted at that point, I just let the matter fall through the great crack in the floor.

I realize there is plenty of ignorance and prejudice when it comes to social media (it’s lessening now as it becomes more accepted – much like email in the past), but I don’t think my experience was in any way unique.

This is an example of the sort of thing that absolutely KILLS parishioners’ motivation to get involved and to help.

I agree with you about the social media presence of a parish. I think it is critically important in this day and age.

It sounds like you have a strained relationship with your pastor, and no wonder since you think so little of him. I wonder if it might be helpful to sell your ideas to somebody else with influence in the parish and have that person approach the pastor. No, it isn’t ideal, but relationships matter and it seems that yours has soured.

Personally, I would pay the $5 if you think it would be helpful. Then, when you see results, you can prepare a report on the activity and submit it for consideration for the future. Or you can take the humble approach and continue to do it anonymously for as long as you believe it to be effective. For years, I paid for and maintained my parish website because nobody saw the need to have one. It is an amatuer website (and it shows) and I’ve been talking to my pastor about paying to have someone develop a more professional looking internet presence. We’ll see how it goes.

As an aside, your parish has had an excellent website since the very early days of the internet. I remember looking at it back in the 1990s and it was highly informative and very well done for its time.

 

[dvdjs]

A good strategy is to work towards creating a number of smaller parishes. I am pleased to see the outreach to Hanford,

 

[Draper]

I do understand your great frustration here. We have a wonderful “best kept secret” in our Eastern Catholic parishes and it is painful to think that they could close and we (and others) could have prevented it. It is frustrating to deal with entrenched attitudes that will accept nothing new and innovated because “it won’t work” without even being willing to try.

What really hammered this home to me is reading a series of posting (which I can no longer locate) on www.byzcath.org I believe, about the closing of small EC parishes in PA. Some of the similarities to my parish made the hair on the back of my neck stand-up

The “it won’t work” syndrome is a big part of the problem but other forces are also at work. The protecting of turf, the willful isolation, prejudices (from both clergy and lay) and other things all play a part.

I don’t think that publicly calling out your current and former pastors as “harsh, coarse, self-centered, attention-seeking” , who don’t keep promises and are generally incompetent and uninterested in growth is going to win you any friends anywhere, particularly when your parish is readily identifiable to anyone with a little inside knowledge or willingness to do some research…

I’m simply stating facts. One critical tool for improvement is honest discourse. Yet too often in the Church, it’s stifled because we are not allowed to be constructively critical of clergy. That’s unacceptable to me and many others

Attacking someone for the sake of attacking someone is most assuredly wrong. Pointing out that someone who greatly effects a parish’s health is “harsh, coarse, self-centered, attention-seeking” isn’t wrong if it’s done in the context of trying to figure out what’s wrong with a parish and trying to find a means to improve.

And to be brutally honest, I’m darned tired of seeing some of my friends being treated poorly. I can personally hold my own but to witness friends (who are far nicer and sensitive than I am) get treated poorly is absolutely gut-wrenching.

I agree with you about the social media presence of a parish. I think it is critically important in this day and age.

Yes it is.

It sounds like you have a strained relationship with your pastor, and no wonder since you think so little of him. I wonder if it might be helpful to sell your ideas to somebody else with influence in the parish and have that person approach the pastor. No, it isn’t ideal, but relationships matter and it seems that yours has soured.

I honestly don’t think such a person exists in the parish today. The pastor’s response (immediately shoot down or ignore) to ideas from just about everyone within the parish is rather alarming these days.

Personally, I would pay the $5 if you think it would be helpful. Then, when you see results, you can prepare a report on the activity and submit it for consideration for the future. Or you can take the humble approach and continue to do it anonymously for as long as you believe it to be effective. For years, I paid for and maintained my parish website because nobody saw the need to have one. It is an amatuer website (and it shows) and I’ve been talking to my pastor about paying to have someone develop a more professional looking internet presence. We’ll see how it goes.

In retrospect I should have paid the fee myself. I didn’t see it as being humble though. I saw doing so as being disobedient, as being a cowboy. I do with I would have done it though – it would have made a material difference.

As an aside, your parish has had an excellent website since the very early days of the internet. I remember looking at it back in the 1990s and it was highly informative and very well done for its time.

Yeah, the person that creates and maintains the parish website is a real peach.

 

[Draper]

A good strategy is to work towards creating a number of smaller parishes. I am pleased to see the outreach to Hanford,

Not if the creation of new “smaller parishes” impinges on the health of an existing parish.

 

[Ignatius]

When I began at the parish 15 years ago, conversation was dominated by negative comments about “liberalism” and attacks on the OF Mass.

That really doesn’t make any sense. Byzantine Catholic parishes don’t use either the EF nor the OF Mass. We use the Byzantine Divine Liturgy of St. John and occasionally St. James.

 

[wynd]

That really doesn’t make any sense. Byzantine Catholic parishes don’t use either the EF nor the OF Mass. We use the Byzantine Divine Liturgy of St. John and occasionally St. James.

In the absence of TLM parishes, lots of Latin Catholics looking for some semblance of traditional worship moved over to Byzantine parishes.

 

[Draper]

That really doesn’t make any sense. Byzantine Catholic parishes don’t use either the EF nor the OF Mass. We use the Byzantine Divine Liturgy of St. John and occasionally St. James.

Sure it does. About 75% of those attending the Byzantine Catholic parish were self-professed Latin Rite “traditionalists.” Their hatred of the OF Mass was disgusting and they would attack it at every opportunity. They were there to “escape” in their own words.

One of the parish’s former pastors (bi-ritual) publicly denigrated the OF Mass – one of the absolute most disgusting thing I have ever witnessed a pastor do. He wouldn’t even concelebrate funeral Masses if they were OF Masses – yet he would celebrate EF Masses with great glee.