Chris W:
Oh, I misunderstood. You said, *“atheists general explain miracles as hoaxes, tricks, mistakes, natural phenomena, illusions, and coicidences. Sometimes, they accept that they have no explaination for them. They… well, I… point to equally bizarre travesties and ask why God didn’t step in.” *I did not understand from your response that you see an alternative explanation, other than to call it a fraud of some kind…an answer which I think needs to be justified by explanation.
I only presented fraud as one possible choice. I frequently go for “natural phenomena” myself. For instance, the doctor tells two patients that they have inoperable cancer and they have a month to live. One, a believer, goes to Fatima and is healed, must be a miracle. The other one, an atheist, cuts down on red meat and takes up Yoga, the doctor must have been wrong. People of all walks of life, of all beliefs, can have “miraculous” healings.
I have a friend who had a very large tumor. (It was definitely there, there were x-rays to prove it). He went to a psychic surgeon in the Phillipines. His cancer is now gone. (It’s definitely gone, there are x-rays to prove it.) It’s easy to do psychic surgery, and makes a great show. You use chicken guts and fake blood. He doesn’t have cancer now, though. I can only imagine that his belief that it was gone was so strong that his body somehow got rid of it.
You could say that I’m being prejudicial in a way. I don’t particularly want to believe in psychic surgery. You could say that I’m using a false analogy, but it seems really similar to me. I just don’t think the tumor was pulled out of his stomach by a psychic surgeon. I don’t think I’m being overly cautious if I say, “Ok, show me the proof. Let’s run tests on the stuff you pulled out.”
Chris W:
Yet you compare the documentation about the miracles at Fatima to the evidence provided by those who belive in aliens? There is no comparison. Scientists have not been able to, in public, examine the evidence of aliens and subject it to scientific testing that rules out other explanations (at least not that I’m aware).
I have a friend who swears that there is tonnes of documentation proving aliens are on Earth, but I have to confess I’ve never checked it out. I’m really not the slightest bit interested in them. You could be, and probably are, right that Fatima is better documented. I hereby withdraw any comparisons.
Chris W:
Yes, that would be nice wouldn’t it? But if the scenario you describe does not occur, then you disregard any other cases that need an answer? Sounds like a way to protect your current position.
Yup. You’ve got me there. I have to admit that I don’t want to believe in Fatima. My wants affect my belief far more than logic or scientific reasoning does.
Why don’t I want to believe? Because I can’t afford to go to Fatima. Neither can my clients. (I work in a health care/ social work facility. It pays minimum wage, but I feel good about myself when I get home.) Billions of people in the world are suffering from some sort of psychological, physical, or social ailment. Hundreds(?) are miraculously cured. There is no fairness in miracles. I don’t believe we live in a fair world, but then I don’t believe that the world loves me. Nobody tries to convince me that nature cares if I live or die. People, many people, tell me that God can and does love me.
If there is a God, I sincerly want him to be kind and compassionate. No one who is kind and compassionate, and has the power to change things, could sit by and watch. I wouldn’t, and I’m actually a bit of a jerk. I’m not talking about eliminating all pain all together; I’m talking about the pain that breaks people’s spirit. The overwhelming, soul-stealing pain that makes people lose faith in living, in love, and in themselves. I just can not be convinced that an all-powerful, all-loving God would cause that much pain. It isn’t fair. A God that would do that doesn’t deserve my respect.
So I choose to believe that God either does not exist, or that God doesn’t know, or that God just can’t change the world. My sanity won’t allow me to believe in a God gives to some and takes from others, and tells them all he loves them the same.
Sigh, now comes the inevitable… someone is going to tell me God loves me and answers my prayers. They are going to tell me God knows best and it is all a part of his divine wisdom and infinite love.
But, if God loves me, why doesn’t he show up and tell me himself? I wouldn’t ask for a long meeting, just a short, “Hi, it’s me. Look, I know this doesn’t make any sense right now. Just keep the faith, and we’ll have a good laugh when it’s done.” All I ask is about three seconds of togetherness with the God who made me and loves me. Preferably someplace I can afford to get to.
Sorry for rambling so long
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