How would you handle this situation?

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Holy Mother Church is very wise. She says "No Sex unless you are Married to one another"

Why does she say that? Because God said that…Ten Commandments…do you remember?

**Sex before marriage always causes problems. **
 
Guess it depends on the person.

Depends if they think of the consequences.

I don’t think it’s too wrong. It depends how religious you are. But if they love eachother, if they know their marriage will be strong and stable, nothing is wrong.

Again, it depends on the person, their principles, and how religious they are.

You can explain to her that she shouldn’t worry too much, that if she knows everything will work fine, there /isn’t/ anything to worry about.
 
If you consider being engaged as being married, then why is there anything wrong? I mean, why are you engaged? If you’re just engaged because you’re waiting to get married, then why should you have to wait until you can plan everything? Of course, if you think of it that way, then you’d have to consider breaking up as getting divorced. But if you’ve made that committment, just not officially, then is it that horrible?
BTW, I voted that it’s better that they’re engaged, but it’s still a sin.
 
catherinesiena said:
**I have a very close friend who is sleeping with her boyfriend. They are planning a wedding in the spring, but they are not married now. I’m married, but I didn’t wait for marriage either. I have since felt remorse and have asked for forgiveness, but my friend doesn’t feel there is anything wrong since she is getting married soon anyway. She will ask me occationally if I think she is doing the wrong thing, but because I did the same wrong thing, I struggle with what to tell her. How can I explain that even though they love each other and will be getting married, it is still wrong to have sex? What are your views on engaged couples having sex? We all know it is a sin, but do you think there are exceptions? I have my own view, whats yours? **
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I did not know various “views” were all equal. I thought the Catholic Church contained the fullness of truth. Are there more than one set of truths? Is there one set for engaged couples, another set for married couples, another set for couples who “feel” that fornication is not a sin?
 
Adam Costanzo said:
If you consider being engaged as being married, then why is there anything wrong? I mean, why are you engaged? If you’re just engaged because you’re waiting to get married, then why should you have to wait until you can plan everything? Of course, if you think of it that way, then you’d have to consider breaking up as getting divorced. But if you’ve made that committment, just not officially, then is it that horrible?
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There’s something to this argument.

If people are only waiting to get married because they want to plan the “big day”, then perhaps they are putting too much emphasis on the “big day”. Better to just quickly find a priest or minister or JP or whatever somewhere and get things formalized. Then everything’s legit. They are living as husband and wife already, so why wait to get married?

And, yet, if there really is something important about having that “big day”, then this alone speaks to the fact that there is some inherant value to actually “being married” and those vows, which you don’t have if you’re only engaged. Their own insistence upon “waiting” to get married may be a self admission that there is something worth waiting for, afterall.

Something for them to think about.
 
omg its JO:
Guess it depends on the person.

Depends if they think of the consequences.

I don’t think it’s too wrong. It depends how religious you are. But if they love eachother, if they know their marriage will be strong and stable, nothing is wrong.

Again, it depends on the person, their principles, and how religious they are.

You can explain to her that she shouldn’t worry too much, that if she knows everything will work fine, there /isn’t/ anything to worry about.
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Whether you are a Christian or not, this thoroughly “don’t worry, be happy” doctrine of subjective morality makes me want to puke …but, that really depends if… 😦
 
i apologize if someone else posted this, as i didn’t read the entire thread. but there is always the strong possibility that they WON’T get married, and will call off the engagement. this is one of the reasons why sex between engaged couples is not a good idea.
 
nobody has touched on this reason, the basic reason why all sin is wrong and is prohibited by our loving Creator God. Sin does damage, first to the individual. Sexual sin is the worst because sex is so integral to one’s identity that the injury to self is severe. Sexual sin with another person compounds the evil by the damage done to another. Sin that denigrates marriage - and the purpose of sex in marriage is 3-fold, unitive, procreative and pleasurable. Sex in marriage is a sign, as all the best of God’s gifts in creation, of His love, a sign of our potential union with God, a sign of His gift of life and a sign of the joy that awaits us in heaven. Anything that denigrates the sign value denigrates what the sign points to. Anything that denigrates marriage destroys the entire fabric of marriage and family, the basic construct of society. Sex before marriage destroys intimacy and destroys the process by which first in dating, courtship and then engagement the couple grow in intimacy. Sex shortcuts the whole process, so that intimacay of mind, heart, intention, purpose, faith never have a chance to grow. There has never developed any avenue of communication except sexual expression, women and men both are feeling used, a feeling compounded if they contracepted. This leads to bitterness, divorce and worse.

Listen to the wisdom of your elders, those of us survivors of the sexual revolution who have learned the truth to our cost. There is a reason why marriages among “good Christians” of 30-40 years duration are breaking up at a great rate. When sex is no longer possible or important, those relationships whose only basis was sex dissolve.

Marriage requires maturity. Inability to practice continence, which will be required for all at different times during marriage, and inability to subordinate one’s own physical needs and desires for the good of the other person and of the family, is the hallmark of immaturity and proof positive you are not ready for marriage.
 
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puzzleannie:
nobody has touched on this reason, the basic reason why all sin is wrong and is prohibited by our loving Creator God. Sin does damage, first to the individual. Sexual sin is the worst because sex is so integral to one’s identity that the injury to self is severe. Sexual sin with another person compounds the evil by the damage done to another. Sin that denigrates marriage - and the purpose of sex in marriage is 3-fold, unitive, procreative and pleasurable. Sex in marriage is a sign, as all the best of God’s gifts in creation, of His love, a sign of our potential union with God, a sign of His gift of life and a sign of the joy that awaits us in heaven. Anything that denigrates the sign value denigrates what the sign points to. Anything that denigrates marriage destroys the entire fabric of marriage and family, the basic construct of society. Sex before marriage destroys intimacy and destroys the process by which first in dating, courtship and then engagement the couple grow in intimacy. Sex shortcuts the whole process, so that intimacay of mind, heart, intention, purpose, faith never have a chance to grow. There has never developed any avenue of communication except sexual expression, women and men both are feeling used, a feeling compounded if they contracepted. This leads to bitterness, divorce and worse.

Listen to the wisdom of your elders, those of us survivors of the sexual revolution who have learned the truth to our cost. There is a reason why marriages among “good Christians” of 30-40 years duration are breaking up at a great rate. When sex is no longer possible or important, those relationships whose only basis was sex dissolve.

Marriage requires maturity. Inability to practice continence, which will be required for all at different times during marriage, and inability to subordinate one’s own physical needs and desires for the good of the other person and of the family, is the hallmark of immaturity and proof positive you are not ready for marriage.
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As someone who grew up during the sexual revolution, and tried to live by its doctrines-- Puzzleannie hit it right between the eyes.

Sweetcakes: The woman did ask for Catherinesiena’s opinion. Also-- even if that wasn’t the case I would be impressed by her caring enough about her friend to speak up.
What’s your motto- Live and Let Die?
 
Well I couldn’t let “Shannon e - self proclaimed thread killer” have the last word, could I 😛 ? Although I don’t disagree…

Earlier in this thread a few pointed out that your friend probably already knows this is wrong, otherwise she wouldn’t feel the need to ask you. Another thought along these lines: If she knows premarital sex is wrong, is unsettled enough by it to bring it up more than once to other people, why not just stop? I would think it would be easier to abstain from sex knowing that there is a time limit on it (since they will be married) than it would be for a couple that wasn’t engaged. I’d ask her this: “What are you afraid will happen if you stop having sex with your fiance before the wedding? What in your relationship with him makes you afraid to do this?” The answer to this question may bring an issue to light that should be addressed before the wedding.

Also, if you have the opening with her, what about birth control? I don’t know of any couples who engage in pre-marital sex and use NFP. So is she planning on continuing whatever method she is using now after the wedding? Does she know about Church Teaching (is she Catholic) on birth control and the value of using NFP (if you need to use something) This may be an opportunity to give her some of this information as well. If she and her fiance haven’t discussed this yet, it is urgent that they do before they get married.

God Bless,
TKC
 
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ThyKingdomCome:
I’d ask her this: “What are you afraid will happen if you stop having sex with your fiance before the wedding? What in your relationship with him makes you afraid to do this?” The answer to this question may bring an issue to light that should be addressed before the wedding.
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Ooh, you’re getting warm. I’ll tell you what will happen. It’s a jungle out there, getting worse all the time. The groom to be may be a nice guy and all, but guys are pretty spoiled these days and what’s to stop him from seeing an old girlfriend or picking up someone new? People are taught that they “need” it for their health! He may say it’s “nothing” but then the bride to be is all upset, hurt, betrayed…then the engagement unravels. I feel sorry for the poor gals trying to hold an engagement together in hopes of having a decent life in the future. Been there done that!
 
Ok, I think i voted wrong. I think my answer came out of guilt of my own sexual sin. Basically it still is a sin whether you do it the day before your wedding or with someone who you barely know and will never see again. The more I mess up with this sin, the more I figure out why God made it a rule. I’ve only been with two guys…one out of rebellion to God (long story) and one that I loved very very much and thought I would marry. I sinned with both men and don’t plan to do it again. Sex is very very powerful. It can make something very beautiful or it can tear down something that was once pure and beautiful. Once you have sex, it is not easy to stop, so I really don’t know what to tell you about your friend sleeping with her boyfriend that she’s gonna marry. She won’t listen to you much. All you can do is present her with the truth that the Lord taught and just pray that this is the guy she will spend the rest of her life with.

Katie 🙂
 
Dear Catherine,

Like you, I too was involved in sex before I was married. Just because we did it however does not mean that we need to let others make the same mistake. I too regret my actions pre-marriage. I wish I could go back in time and I would not want anyone to experience the same pains I do. So…I always explain situations to others.

One of the best talks on this I have ever heard was a 5 minute talk by Jason Evert. He explained the importance of courting and how he had asked he wife’s parents for their permission to court their daughter. Then they courted for many more months before they were married. This puts dating in a totally different light. Courting means you are dating with the intention of getting married. As we know, marriage is so much more than just sex.

People who live together are constantly breaking up and have a better chance of being divorced. Talk to your friend. Tell her to take her future commitment to her fiance seriously. And find out all of the information you can on Jason Evert at Catholic Answers. Don’t forget to pray for them.

Peace be with you friend,
Trevor
 
Dear Catherine,

Like you, I too was involved in sex before I was married. Just because we did it however does not mean that we need to let others make the same mistake. I too regret my actions pre-marriage. I wish I could go back in time and I would not want anyone to experience the same pains I do. So…I always explain situations to others.

One of the best talks on this I have ever heard was a 5 minute talk by Jason Evert. He explained the importance of courting and how he had asked he wife’s parents for their permission to court their daughter. Then they courted for many more months before they were married. This puts dating in a totally different light. Courting means you are dating with the intention of getting married. As we know, marriage is so much more than just sex.

People who live together are constantly breaking up and have a better chance of being divorced. Talk to your friend. Tell her to take her future commitment to her fiance seriously. And find out all of the information you can on Jason Evert at Catholic Answers. Don’t forget to pray for them.

For a marriage to work, it needs to be like a rope. And rope is made out of three pieces of twine, not two. You need a girl, a guy, and God. Is God in your friend’s relationship?

Peace be with you friend,
Trevor
 
catherinesiena said:
**I have a very close friend who is sleeping with her boyfriend. We all know it is a sin, but do you think there are exceptions? I have my own view, whats yours? **
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It’s a grave sin and their salvation is at risk. Just 'cause everyone else in the world got it wrong including yourself wouldn’t improve their chances for salvation should they die in the condition they are in.

But you already know that.

So here’s something else to consider. People who have sex regularly before marriage have a statistically higher, many times higher, rate of failure of their marriages when they do get married. They also consistently report lower levels of satisfaction with their married lives than people who waited till they were married.

This is one of my favorite lines from the CCC, #1766: “To love is to will the good of another.”
To will the good of another means that you at least intend to act on their behalf for their own good.
This is in the section on “The morality of the passions”. Good reading for you and your friends at this time.

If you love your friends do the right thing for them. Tell them the Truth.

“Those who tell the Truth love you. Those who tell you what you want to hear love themselves.”
Code: 
        -Mother Angelica
They need to stop what they are doing and repent and amend their lives and seek absolution in the confessional. If they are not Catholic they need to talk to their pastor and confess their sins according to the teaching of their denomination. They need to live chaste lives until their honeymoon. That is the Truth, tough to take as it may be.

Love someone today. Tell them what they need to know for their own good, not just what will make them like you.

God bless,
  • FranL
 
Are they even legitimately engaged? There are so amyn people who moved in together and call themselves engaged and speak about “fiancees,” when they have not even set a date of addressed what type of wedding they will have, to make their consciences and their families feel better. Many of these “fiancees” don’t even make it to the alter together?
 
I had to substitute for a CCD religion class of seniors. They could have cared less about being there. It was a last minute replacement and I had no preparation for the class. I decided to talk about my then favorite topic what are the outward signs of the sacraments. When we got to marriage, and I told them it was the Marital embrace one of the boys looked at me and said so that’s the reason it is wrong to have sex before marriage.
 
I chose the “it’s better that they’re engaged…but still a sin” option because the first option used the words “mortal sin”. The way it was phrased didn’t allow for the fact that we can’t know what’s between God and an individual as to whether all 3 conditions are fulfilled so as to make the sin mortal. So…basically, I’m for the first option, really, but I had to discount it since we can’t judge the condition of someone else’s soul…
 
Island Oak:
Since (and ONLY because) she’s asking your opinion I would be willing to share with her what you’ve learned about the unique beauty of married love. Admit that you didn’t fully understand before you were married…but now do. Confirm that her inquiry my indicate the Holy Spirit at work on her conscience and congratulate her desire to elevate her conduct with her fiance as she seriously and soberly considers the vows she is about to undertake.
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I think I’d start by asking her why she was asking, and I’d require an answer… was she most concerned about what I thought, or what other people thought, or remembering what she used to think of people who did that, or was she feeling wrong about it or pressured into it, or was she feeling called to refrain from further sex until marriage, or…? Encourage her to share what is going on inside of her. Listen to what she has to say and make sure she knows you have heard that you heard her before putting your two cents in.

Then by all means, share this answer, because it is a good one!
 
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