How would your spritual life react to such a new parish in your neighborhood?

[Duesenberg]

Please consider the following hypothetical and the impact it would have on your own spiritual journey.

Your learn that a new Catholic parish is going to open near your house. The local Catholic diocese has purchased the beautiful and stately former Episcopal Church building just down the street from your neighborhood.

You show up for Sunday morning Mass. You’re early but there are ushers there to greet you. They inform you that “the coffee and conversation” are already flowing in the parish hall and that the Rosary is about to begin inside of the church. As you enter the church and walk up the center aisle, the parish pastor shakes your hand and quietly greets you as he makes his morning rounds. The church is very quiet except for the Rosary which includes about 50 people.

The Rosary is completed and you head for the parish hall. Nearly a hundred people are enjoying themselves as they visit and drink coffee. It seems to be a great group of people – some you already know. None of the severity or frowns some parishes are known for. The host announces that the “coffee bar” will be closing so that everyone in attendance will be sure to maintain their fasts.

The church’s tower bells boom with authority calling people to Mass. People quietly begin to walk from the parish hall to the church. Despite an influx of people, the church remains silent. The procession begins and you notice the power of the pipe organ music and the beautiful hymn from the Adoremus Hymnal.

You close your eyes and you can smell the wonderfully mild, hypoallergenic incense. The OF Mass begins with a beautiful greeting from the new pastor. The readings begin and they are all chanted. Your grin inwardly because the reader is on loan from the local Byzantine Catholic parish. The priest chants the entire Mass and the proclamation of the Gospel beautifully, but his real strength is preaching. You look back and notice the church is almost full. Later you learn there was 808 people in attendance.

The OF Mass is celebrated ad orientum to take advantage of the sanctuary’s intact high altar. The priest chooses the Roman Canon (EP#1) At the epiclesis and both elevations, the largest bell in the belfry is expertly struck three times. Communion is by intinction with both the priest and a layman (who has been specifically approved by the local ordinary) distributing communion. It’s distributed at a lovely intact communion rail.

A standing room only coffee social follow the Mass where you make some new friends.

Best of all is what you have experienced is just how everything is. It was purposely set-up this way. It’s not a product of a years long renewal struggle. There’s no severity, no anger. There’s no politicking to change things. There’s no controversy, not even with the incense. It’s just the way it is and you get the feeling that nothing (other than legitimate upgrades) is going to change.

What sort of impact would a discovery like this have on your own spiritual journey? Would it help it, hinder it, or would it have no real impact? Would you register with such a parish? What ministries if any would you hope to become involved with?

 

[Tis_Bearself]

You’ve got me visiting with people both before and after the Mass? I’m doing well on many days to interact with the people I meet in the actual pews. I also don’t want to visit before the Mass because it’s a distraction from the praying I come to do.

The Rosary and Mass part sound nice, for once in a while visiting. I like to try different churches and different experiences week to week.

As for registering with the parish, if it was my geographical parish I’d probably register with it because it’s the one to which I’m assigned. If not, I’d register with the geographical parish as I do now.

 

[Samuel_Mary]

I’d think it seems pretty cool and visit from time to time, but what you are describing is already pretty near the average OF parish around here. The vast majority have incense and bells (the Dominicans chime a big bell in the tower, even on weekday Masses), a couple - one an oratory, another which only has a high altar - do ad orientem, two use what I think is the Adoremus hymnal while others use the not-too-bad Laudate hymnal. Most are fairly quiet when people enter except for kids being kids occasionally. Coffee after Mass is common, never seen it before. The Rosary tends to be more of a weekday activity to be honest. Everyone seems pretty happy and I’ve never read about parish meetings revolving around the liturgy or music, more like fundraisers, timings of catechism classes and other parish minutiae.

I kind of assumed this WAS the compromise that’s been naturally arrived at, following the storied liturgy wars of days of yore. I’m a ‘reform of the reform’ kind of guy and am always looking for more tradition, reverence, borrowing from pre-concilliar liturgical norms etc nevertheless, but at least I can say what you describe is more or less the starting point around here, not the destination. I feel bad for anybody for whom this stuff would be a distant dream.

Edit: since you asked about spirituality, I would say I feel spiritually nourished by my local parishes. But I do tend to get a lot more, spiritually, out of Adoration than Mass. This seems to be true no matter where I attend Mass or how formal it is. I think it’s just the intimacy of Adoration and the lack of distraction.

 

[PaulfromIowa]

I would probably say: “Bishop, where are you getting all this money to start a new parish, and who are all these people?”

 

[Pug]

Catholics came forty-five minutes early to Mass just to socialize? What planet am I on? Where are all these people going to park their cars, or are there no other masses that day?

The silence would be nice. My current parish is pretty nice as it is, though.

 

[Casilda]

What sort of impact would a discovery like this have on your own spiritual journey? Would it help it, hinder it, or would it have no real impact? Would you register with such a parish? What ministries if any would you hope to become involved with?

Loved your disclaimer.

First off, sounds almost like my Eastern Catholic parish except the coffee and mingling is after Divine Liturgy (different fasting rules) and our priest distributes the intincted host along with the deacon and any concelebrating priests.

Having such a hypothetical OF parish nearby I would still attend at my EC parish, so no impact for me.

 

[Duesenberg]

I’d think it seems pretty cool and visit from time to time, but what you are describing is already pretty near the average OF parish around here. The vast majority have incense and bells (the Dominicans chime a big bell in the tower, even on weekday Masses), a couple - one an oratory, another which only has a high altar - do ad orientem, two use what I think is the Adoremus hymnal while others use the not-too-bad Laudate hymnal. Most are fairly quiet when people enter except for kids being kids occasionally. Coffee after Mass is common, never seen it before. The Rosary tends to be more of a weekday activity to be honest. Everyone seems pretty happy and I’ve never read about parish meetings revolving around the liturgy or music, more like fundraisers, timings of catechism classes and other parish minutiae.

I kind of assumed this WAS the compromise that’s been naturally arrived at, following the storied liturgy wars of days of yore. I’m a ‘reform of the reform’ kind of guy and am always looking for more tradition, reverence, borrowing from pre-concilliar liturgical norms etc nevertheless, but at least I can say what you describe is more or less the starting point around here, not the destination. I feel bad for anybody for whom this stuff would be a distant dream.

Edit: since you asked about spirituality, I would say I feel spiritually nourished by my local parishes. But I do tend to get a lot more, spiritually, out of Adoration than Mass. This seems to be true no matter where I attend Mass or how formal it is. I think it’s just the intimacy of Adoration and the lack of distraction.

Thank you for your thoughtful response. May I ask, whereabouts do you reside? I ask because you should be quite thankful if what I describe is the norm for parishes in your area.

You’re right in that most of the “’'liturgy wars” seem to be over – at least around here. Sadly what’s left is not usually what I described. From my experiences it’s usually akin to what I think of as the aftermath of…war. Very basic liturgies stripped of the abuses for the most part, but also stripped of all semblances of solemnity too.

Coffee before and after services is fairly common in some Protestants churches around here. It gives people a place to fellowship, while keeping their churches quiet for those wishing to pray or contemplate.

Thank you again for your response.

 

[Duesenberg]

Loved your disclaimer.

First off, sounds almost like my Eastern Catholic parish except the coffee and mingling is after Divine Liturgy (different fasting rules) and our priest distributes the intincted host along with the deacon and any concelebrating priests.

Having such a hypothetical OF parish nearby I would still attend at my EC parish, so no impact for me.

I’m glad your EC parish is as you describe. Mine is very small and populated almost entirely by bitter/angry Roman Catholics. The amount of gossip and whining one encounters there can be most depressing. It began as a refuge of sorts for “traditionalist” Roman Catholics a number of years ago. While their presence made the formation of the parish possible, it has also held it back from truly developing in the past 15+ years.

Interesting your church has different fasting rules. The rules for the Ruthenian Church as an example is one hour.

 

[KatyCatholic]

That church sounds like a consumer product.

I go to Mass, could be in a school gym, in the back room of a strip mall, outside on a lawn, with music, without music, with horrible orators, with or without cantors, liturgy that picked the wrong collect or wrong antiphon, most boring priest homily ever in the entire catholic church … and I would still love to be at that Mass to celebrate the Eucharist.

Yes, we are all a part of the Mystical Body of Christ and we are called to help and support each other, though coffee and donuts sounds like a distraction, it could be a means for us to bond and help intercede for one another.

In my humble opinion, the Eucharist is the center and focus of any and all Masses. If there are secondary things like socials and coffee, wonderful for what they are. It’s also my opinion that we, as the faithful, should keep in mind the distinction between the celebrating the Pascal Mystery and celebrating being Catholic.

Blessings!

 

[jcrichton]

Hi, Duesenberg!

The only problem I have is with the pre-Mass coffee.

I thought that there was an obligation to refrain from anything other than water for at least one hour before Receiving the Eucharist… aside from that, as long as the environment is not conductive to socializing (go for the chat/networking) it sounds great.

However, this would only be a great step towards the true comradery that we should enjoy.

Some non-Catholics engage their parishioners far more intimately; they visit and call those who miss their services; they provide transportation/companionship to their services; they visit the sick and disable… true, many times it is a “gestapo” type comradery, yet, if Catholics would accept Christ at His Word: ‘Love one another so that the world would know that the Father has sent me,’ we would have that comradery as you’ve envisioned.

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[Duesenberg]

Catholics came forty-five minutes early to Mass just to socialize? What planet am I on? Where are all these people going to park their cars, or are there no other masses that day?

The silence would be nice. My current parish is pretty nice as it is, though.

Good question. In a somewhat idealized situation like the one I described, the parish would have only ONE Mass/Sunday. That way members of the parish could actually get to know one another. They could have a multi-hour Sunday experience. Excuses for offering 45 minutes Mass like limited parking would be eliminated.

Running parishes like factories with multiple Masses (many unfilled in my experience) is one of the more negative Catholic experiences.

 

[jcrichton]

Coffee before and after services is fairly common in some Protestants churches around here. It gives people a place to fellowship, while keeping their churches quiet for those wishing to pray or contemplate.

Hi, Duesenberg!

…but they don’t have several services (more than one group of parishioners) and they don’t believe the Holy Eucharist is Christ Jesus… so they eat, drink and do merry without concern for the Breaking of the Bread.

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[KatyCatholic]

not intended to be snarky in any way, was under the impression that the thread topic was for a “hypothetical” church in a neighborhood.

my intention was to redirect the focus of going to Mass is to celebrate the Eucharist (liturgy of the word, liturgy of the eucharist) and everything and anything else should be secondary.

 

[Duesenberg]

…but they don’t have several services (more than one group of parishioners) and they don’t believe the Holy Eucharist is Christ Jesus… so they eat, drink and do merry without concern for the Breaking of the Bread.

Maran atha!

Whether they believe the Blessed Sacrament is Jesus Christ means nothing in this context. Drinking coffee more than an hour before receiving Holy Communion does not break the fast. Nor is extending the required fast to midnight past any “better” in the eyes of the Church.

One of their great advantages is they don’t have “several services.” They might have one morning one and one evening one, but they don’t have several where parishioners never get to fellowship and know one another.

 

[Duesenberg]

not intended to be snarky in any way, was under the impression that the thread topic was for a “hypothetical” church in a neighborhood.

my intention was to redirect the focus of going to Mass is to celebrate the Eucharist (liturgy of the word, liturgy of the eucharist) and everything and anything else should be secondary.

“Consumer product”?

Too often Catholic parishes completely ignore “secondary” matters completely.

Having a place to fellowship before Mass and having a one after Mass would only amplify and accentuate the Mass. Implying that it would take the focus off the Mass is disingenuous. fellowship is very important, but it’s often looked down upon because it takes a lot of effort to facilitate.

 

[jcrichton]

Hi, Duesenberg!

…that could work in a small parish… I’ve been to parishes where it is standing room-only; people are hugging the walls, the Baptismal area in the back is flooded, even the doors and all the wings are congested… in some the Priest have to turn off the lights to hurry people out because the next Mass is due and people need the parking spaces and seats.

I think though that the problem lies with the individual Catholic; your parish seems small and yet you describe it as a dentist experience–sourpuss with malcontent persuasion.

We convict the world till our Love radiates from us and for us.

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[Duesenberg]

The only problem I have is with the pre-Mass coffee.

I thought that there was an obligation to refrain from anything other than water for at least one hour before Receiving the Eucharist… aside from that, as long as the environment is not conductive to socializing (go for the chat/networking) it sounds great.

However, this would only be a great step towards the true comradery that we should enjoy.

Some non-Catholics engage their parishioners far more intimately; they visit and call those who miss their services; they provide transportation/companionship to their services; they visit the sick and disable… true, many times it is a “gestapo” type comradery, yet, if Catholics would accept Christ at His Word: ‘Love one another so that the world would know that the Father has sent me,’ we would have that comradery as you’ve envisioned.

Maran atha!

Angel

As described they would be maintaining their 1 hour Mass. For the most part if one attends a decent Sunday OF Mass, as long as they are not drinking/eating DURING Mass, they’ll easily maintain the one hour fast. Not true of course where 45 minute “parking problem excuse” Masses are celebrated, but that’s another matter entirely.

“Some non-Catholics engage their parishioners far more intimately; they visit and call those who miss their services; they provide transportation/companionship to their services; they visit the sick and disable…” <— all wonderful things.

 

[Duesenberg]

I think though that the problem lies with the individual Catholic; your parish seems small and yet you describe it as a dentist experience–sourpuss with malcontent persuasion.

My main parish is a large Roman Catholic parish.

The angry and bitter people at my EC parish arrived that way. It’s a magnet for “traditionalists” who seem to hate more than they love. Very few actual ECs there, or people like me who simply love the liturgy.

 

[jcrichton]

Hi, Duesenberg!

I don’t mean to be disagreeable, but is there someone who will cut off the coffee so that the “fast” period is observed?

What of those who let the coffee linger as they talk or those that want to get their coffee high?

Have you ever notice smokers? How they rush to light up before going into the Church building and how they rush out to get light up? …or those who can’t turn off their chat-boxes, even during the Consecration?–that’s my concern for a pre-Mass social.

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[jcrichton]

Hi, Duesenberg!

…sorry for the misunderstanding.

…so if they are in the minority, how is it that they have taken over the parishes drive?

Maran atha!

Angel