HPV vaccine

[timotheos]

vran.org/vaccines/hpv/hpv.htm

some info on Gardasil for anyone interested. Some points that really stuck out to me:

FDA approval was NOT based on actual cancer prevention: FDA did not approve Gardasil based on the vaccine’s actual prevention of cervical cancer but on the prevention of precancerous lesions. How effective is Gardasil in decreasing the incidence of cervical cancer? No one knows because this question has not yet been answered. As of April 2007, ** Gardasil vaccine has never been proven to decrease the actual incidence of cervical cancer**. ([See article in Cancer Monthly.](http://www.cancermonthly.com/(name removed by moderator)/view.asp?ID=169))

Lack of testing in 9—13 yr olds: The Gardasil monograph states: “efficacy of the vaccine in this age group [9—13 yr olds] has not been demonstrated”.

Rate of targeted HPV infections is extremely low: The National Advisory Committee on Immunization (NACI), the panel of “experts” who recommended funding of Gardasil states: “It [HPV infection] is not a nationally notifiable disease in Canada and, to date, no population-based studies have been published.” A study estimating the American population prevalence of HPV infection published in the Feb 28, 2007 edition of the Journal of the American Medical Association found that only 3.4% of women aged 14—59 yrs were infected with one of the HPV types in Gardasil; only 2% were infected with one of the two types that are in the vaccine and are associated with cervical cancer.

Incidence of cervical cancer is low: Annually, U.S. statistics (and we can assume that Canadian statistics follow suit) show only 3—4 cases of cervical cancer per 100,000 females aged 9—26 years. In her article “Not So Miraculous”, Dr. Moira Terese Dolan, M.D. states in reference to the U.S.: “Gardasil’s reduction of pre-cancers by 12.2% in the general population would mean that instead of 30—40 cases of cancer, there would only be 26—35 cancers. So it would take vaccination of a million girls to prevent cancer in 4—5 girls. About 37% die from cervical cancer, so that would prevent 1—2 deaths. So $360 million in vaccine would prevent 1—2 deaths.”

continues…

Of all of the posts in this thread, this one has the best overview, and I have been following this issue for some time. The only thing I would add is that, while HPV 16 and 18 prevalence is relatively low compared to other types, the relative proportion of these two types appears to increase as you go from infection alone to mild dysplasia to moderate dysplasia to severe dysplasia and finally to cancer. They seem to be more “virulent” than the other high risk types, if you will. But knocking these out with a vaccine would still leave a lot of dysplasia out there. I don’t know many people who would be comfortable leaving non-16/18 disease untreated.

Personally, it makes me sick to see all the STDs and huge amounts of $$ spent on them, and yet our society goes to incredible lengths to protect sexual “freedom”. Talk about addiction. It’s like an alcoholic justifying his/her drinking while the family gets destroyed.

-Tim

 

[j101291]

“So it would take vaccination of a million girls to prevent cancer in 4—5 girls. About 37% die from cervical cancer, so that would prevent 1—2 deaths. So $360 million in vaccine would prevent 1—2 deaths.”

I would pay that much to save one of my girls from getting cervical cancer. I’m actually kind of upset with our doctors office. They led me to believe that it wasn’t only STDs that caused the cancer that it would protect them… I don’t remember anyway I should have researched it further, but my brain has been foggy from the mess my husband is causing. Anyway my 14yog just got shot #3 this week and 13yog was to start with dose #1 but they had run out… We did not go in with the intent of getting them protected from STDs, they are not sexually active and won’t be for a long time. I will do more research before I take my 13yog in.

J

 

[eisme3]

I am currently researching and writing a paper about the gardasil vaccine. I am also a mother of a 13 year old, previously worked as a registered nurse and am now a full time student studying for an M.Div. I was concerned about this vaccine and some of the points have been presented already. Medically it has not been on the market long enough to know the side effects. All vaccines carry risk, what are the ingredients (aluminum), it truly does only cover at most 4 strands of hpv and there are 200. It may or may not work, you may or may not need a booster. In Canada our government alotted 300 million dollars to a vaccine program with an opt out clause. My sister has also been diagnosed with HPV and she has a teenage daughter and she did not receive the vaccine. I listened to my gutt and stuck with it.
I would also recommend researching the pharmaceutical companies behind the drug and the reason it was moved so quickly. Other drug companies have or are working on this vaccine but have chosen not to market it yet, why?

 

[x_nik_x]

Hi to all.
At 28 my mother had cervical cancer ending her quest to have a large family. I have HPV and had a doctor perform a colposcopy when I was 30 weeks pregnant without permission. I was terrified. Listen to me this is no joke this cancer affects 80% of sexually active people 80% did you read this. No matter how many strains, if it cancels out the ones most likely to take child bearing and death out of the equation, then by all means inject all women that is my vote. Don’t be Naive get a shot be healthy and bear a big Catholic family without fear…

 

[OutinChgoburbs]

Hi to all.
At 28 my mother had cervical cancer ending her quest to have a large family. I have HPV and had a doctor perform a colposcopy when I was 30 weeks pregnant without permission. I was terrified. Listen to me this is no joke this cancer affects 80% of sexually active people 80% did you read this. No matter how many strains, if it cancels out the ones most likely to take child bearing and death out of the equation, then by all means inject all women that is my vote. Don’t be Naive get a shot be healthy and bear a big Catholic family without fear…

I’msorry for your problems and your mom’s, but this seems to me to be talk out of fear rather than based on facts.

 

[Brenda_V]

I don’t understand the moral troubles over this…I suppose people hear “sexually transmitted” and get worried.

Maybe some women will get the vaccine and think they can more freely have premarital intercourse…too bad for them!

Wait on the vaccine and watch what happens. Then make a more informed choice. Merck got this drug slammed through the red tape very quickly with a lot of money changing hands.

There is much to be found out about it before getting it!

As a nurse, I’m looking at it from the standpoint of research. In relation to other vaccines out therre, Gardisil was barely researched. Only 1000 girls for something like a 5 year period. Hardly enough research. I need to KNOW that if I get my daughter vaccinated that in 20 years we won’t find out that she suffers from infertility or bone loss or some strange side effect that hadn’t been found during trials. This actually happens a LOT. Remember Thalidomide? It was given like crazy in the 70’s and early 80’s for morning sickness during pregnancy and almost 90% of those babies were born with severe and deadly birth defects. It was only researched for a few years also. Remember DES? It was given in the 60’s and 70’s. Females who’s moms took it will pass on the negative effects for 3 or 4 more generations. Research on that drug took just 24 months. Yes, these are meds with little research behind them. Same with the vaccine. As a nurse, I firmly refuse to give it to my kids. Case closed. twk

Great posts ladies.

Malia - yours was way too long to quote but I plan on copy/pasting it in my word program because it has some wonderful research in it. Thank you. I have been trying to get all this information so if I have to I can send it to Avon - a company I believe in but feel they have jumped on a bandwagon that has not been fully researched!!! Yes, we are being encouraged to encourage our customers to vaccinate their daughters! My heart dropped when I saw the flier in a packet I got when I went to a convention.

Brenda V.

 

[boppaid]

See this is what I disagree with. I would be pretty ticked off if my mom took me to get a vaccine and didn’t tell me what it was for, and then I find out it’s for an STD. Your daughter is old enough to deside for herself. I personally am not getting it because I am a virgin, and will remain so. However, I may change my mind at some point. It isn’t about the vaccine, it’s about choice. I’ve made mine. You should give your daughter the respect to make hers.

Well, I certainly wouldn’t lie to my daughter. If she asks what the vax is for, I would say it was for a disease called hpv that causes most cases of cervical cancer. I don’t think there is anything wrong with that. However, I will not give my minor daughter the final say as to which vaxes she gets. Heck, my 8 year old son would love to skip all vaxes. I need to make decisions based on what I think is best for my minor children. Period.

 

[boppaid]

What’s bothering me about this thread is that if a person has “even one” (other) sexual partner, the woman is then, without a doubt, going to get cervical cancer. Maybe I’m too old these days to understand this but are we saying that almost everybody who is sexually active has HPV? And since you can (apparently) get it without full intercourse, well, I guess everyone must get that vaccine because otherwise every woman in the world is going to get cancer. .

Actually, you are correct. Most people who have had intercourse have hpv. Most often it is so minor that there are no symptoms, however, and oftentimes it goes away on its own (new finding, which is good news! ) However, it’s those times when it turns into cervical cancer that it becomes awfully dangerous. I am thankful we now have a vax for this.

 

[boppaid]

I understand the reasoning behind someone getting the vaccination in adult years, even if she plans to live a chaste life up until marriage, because one’s spouse might pass it to her during the marriage, from a sexual past that he had. (It’s passed the majority of the time through sexual contact) But, a spouse could also have HIV, and other diseases–should we use condoms? I mean…if a person leads a chaste life, he/she could marry someone who didn’t…and could be open to many diseases, but we as Catholics don’t believe in contraception in any form, or using condoms. So, it’s a strange thing, this HPV vaccine, because it presents a moral question when it comes to looking at other diseases as well. I thought about that last night, reading this thread.

Just my ramblings!

Some interesting ramblings and great thoughts! I think the difference is that there are tests which diagnose HIV in both men and women. However, there is currently no HPV test for men.

 

[Delphinus85]

Actually, you are correct. Most people who have had intercourse have hpv. Most often it is so minor that there are no symptoms, however, and oftentimes it goes away on its own (new finding, which is good news! ) However, it’s those times when it turns into cervical cancer that it becomes awfully dangerous. I am thankful we now have a vax for this.

Exactly. Someone can be a carrier and not know it. Say your fiancee’s mother had it, and he was carrying without knowing. Then he and you get married, and next thing you know, 5 years later you get an abnormal pap. If the vaccine works, isn’t it worth t to get over hangups just because it’s related to sex, and protect yourself?

I’ve noticed that people here tend to freak out if anything medical has anything to do remotely with sex. Suddenly, no one trusts doctors, and everyone seems to know better. I had to get a hepatitus vaccine in my teens because my mom got hep B and C from her rather shady past. And shortly before my wedding she informed me she also had herpes, something i immediately got tested for and I tested positive for exposure. I didn’t have the disease, I was merely exposed (don’t ask me how this works, I truly have no clue). I could easily have contracted either disease, and what’s more is my mother NEVER told us jack until doctors and medical testing got involved. She also told me she never had us tested for C because she was too scared to hear the results, and thank God I tested negative for that. You can imagine I am still working past this with her. So you can see, I was VERY exposed to 2 STDs and I never ONCE had sex until my wedding night.

So, you just don’t know how many different ways you can get this stuff, and you NEED to protect yourself.

 

[Goth_Catholic]

Well, I certainly wouldn’t lie to my daughter. If she asks what the vax is for, I would say it was for a disease called hpv that causes most cases of cervical cancer. I don’t think there is anything wrong with that. However, I will not give my minor daughter the final say as to which vaxes she gets. Heck, my 8 year old son would love to skip all vaxes. I need to make decisions based on what I think is best for my minor children. Period.

But only if she asks, right? And she asks how one contracts the disease? And if you deside to tell her, she asks why you don’t trust her? And if she refuses all together? The difference between this vaccine and other vaccines is that this vaccine protects against an STD. Something that can only be contracted by having sex. The vaccine is good until your daughter is 26. Let her deside for herself.

 

[boppaid]

But only if she asks, right? And she asks how one contracts the disease? And if you deside to tell her, she asks why you don’t trust her? And if she refuses all together?

You don’t have to roll your eyes at me. We can have an intelligent conversation without resorting to childish behavior…honestly. If she asks? I’ll tell her. If she then asks why I don’t trust her, I’ll explain that I do trust her. But perhaps she may marry someone who has made a mistake in HIS life. I love her so much that I want her to be safe.

 

[Goth_Catholic]

You don’t have to roll your eyes at me. We can have an intelligent conversation without resorting to childish behavior…honestly. If she asks? I’ll tell her. If she then asks why I don’t trust her, I’ll explain that I do trust her. But perhaps she may marry someone who has made a mistake in HIS life. I love her so much that I want her to be safe.

I understand that. But I don’t belive in forcing someone to get this vaccine on the grounds of “maybe”. Everyday contact is one thing, it’s nearly impossible to avoid. However sex is different, it’s your daughter’s choice. Your daughter deserves to make her own choice.

 

[valient_Lucy]

I understand the reasoning behind someone getting the vaccination in adult years, even if she plans to live a chaste life up until marriage, because one’s spouse might pass it to her during the marriage, from a sexual past that he had. (It’s passed the majority of the time through sexual contact) But, a spouse could also have HIV, and other diseases–should we use condoms? I mean…if a person leads a chaste life, he/she could marry someone who didn’t…and could be open to many diseases, but we as Catholics don’t believe in contraception in any form, or using condoms. So, it’s a strange thing, this HPV vaccine, because it presents a moral question when it comes to looking at other diseases as well. I thought about that last night, reading this thread.

Just my ramblings!

I think the answer for this is for both people to get tested for HIV and other STD’s before marriage.

 

[valient_Lucy]

.

I have told my daughters that I have NO moral qualms about it; even if they are 1) a virgin 2) a virgin now in a monogamous marriage with another previous virgin, there is the awful possibility of sexual attack, rape, etc. My gut feeling is to go with it, but it is such an individual decision (not one I would solely leave up to an 11 year old, however.)

That’s how I feel. There’s still the question of rape.

 

[boppaid]

I understand that. But I don’t belive in forcing someone to get this vaccine on the grounds of “maybe”. Everyday contact is one thing, it’s nearly impossible to avoid. However sex is different, it’s your daughter’s choice. Your daughter deserves to make her own choice.

Okay, I see what you’re saying, but I vehemently disagree. Here’s why. We vax everyday on a maybe. For example, my friend’s daughter is not vaxed against the Hep B vax. She chose not to vax at all. She is in her late teens and has not come down with hepetitis. I vaxed my children with the vax. Just because someone isn’t vaxed doesn’t mean they will get Hepetitis. But I am vaxing on the “MAYBE” chance my child will be exposed to it. We vax on “maybies” everyday. Why is vaxing on the "maybe’ of HPV any different? You said everyday contact makes the other diseases different. But there’ s no everyday contact w/ Hep B. And if my daughter will EVER have sex (i.e., married or otherwise), she has the potential to get HPV. I’d say chances that she will have sex in her lifetime is fairly high, so the shot would be (imo) a good thing for her.

you say it’s my daughter’s choice as to whether or not she should be vaxed. Do you think, then, that my young son should tell me he is opposed to all vaxes? (Because, let me tell you, he is. He hates shots.) When do we play the ‘parent card’ and do what we know is best for our minor children?

 

[boppaid]

I think the answer for this is for both people to get tested for HIV and other STD’s before marriage.

Unfortunately, there is not test for HPV for men, so that wouldn’t solve this particular delima.

 

[sanctamaria17]

I had the HPV vax (two down, one to go). I’m not sexually active but I know that there are chances of maybe. I know someone who has it and was worried about passing it onto her children when she was pregnant. What if my future husband was in a similar situation? And, what if, God forbid, I was assaulted? I came close two years ago (something I’m finally dealing with, thanks to my friends), in my small, ‘safe’ town. Besides, I’ve had both the Hep B anc C vaxes as a young child. It’s not like I haven’t been vaxed against STI’s before.

 

[Goth_Catholic]

Okay, I see what you’re saying, but I vehemently disagree. Here’s why. We vax everyday on a maybe. For example, my friend’s daughter is not vaxed against the Hep B vax. She chose not to vax at all. She is in her late teens and has not come down with hepetitis. I vaxed my children with the vax. Just because someone isn’t vaxed doesn’t mean they will get Hepetitis. But I am vaxing on the “MAYBE” chance my child will be exposed to it. We vax on “maybies” everyday. Why is vaxing on the "maybe’ of HPV any different? You said everyday contact makes the other diseases different. But there’ s no everyday contact w/ Hep B. And if my daughter will EVER have sex (i.e., married or otherwise), she has the potential to get HPV. I’d say chances that she will have sex in her lifetime is fairly high, so the shot would be (imo) a good thing for her.

you say it’s my daughter’s choice as to whether or not she should be vaxed. Do you think, then, that my young son should tell me he is opposed to all vaxes? (Because, let me tell you, he is. He hates shots.) When do we play the ‘parent card’ and do what we know is best for our minor children?

Hep B can be spread by everyday contact, the HPV in the vaccines is only spread by sex. There are several hundred sprains of HPV and only 4 are protected by the vax. Of those 4, only 2 cause cervical cancer.

Your son won’t have to recieve a vax that protects him against a disease he can only catch by having sex. The vaxs he recieves protects him from diseases that can be passed by everyday contact. If the HPV that causes cervical cancer could be passed by everyday contact, I wouldn’t be opposed to it.

 

[Lady_D_I]

Hep B can be spread by everyday contact, the HPV in the vaccines is only spread by sex. There are several hundred sprains of HPV and only 4 are protected by the vax. Of those 4, only 2 cause cervical cancer.

Your son won’t have to recieve a vax that protects him against a disease he can only catch by having sex. The vaxs he recieves protects him from diseases that can be passed by everyday contact. If the HPV that causes cervical cancer could be passed by everyday contact, I wouldn’t be opposed to it.

From the CDC:
"HBV is spread when blood from an infected person enters the body of a person who is not infected.

…Hepatitis B is not spread through food or water, sharing eating utensils, breastfeeding, hugging, kissing, coughing, sneezing or by casual contact."

There is evidence that genital HPV may be spread non-sexually. Keep in mind there is no conclusive evidence.

Examples:
Czegledy J. Sexual and non-sexual transmission of human papillomavirus. Acta Microbiol Immunol Hung. 2001;48(3-4):511-517.

or

“However, there is also compelling evidence indicating that these viruses can be transmitted through non-sexual routes. These include vertical transmission when an infant passes through the HPV-infected birth canal of the mother during vaginal delivery, and transmission by formites contaminated by HPV-infected cells. The long latent phase of HPV infection poses difficulties for accurate identification of the route of infection in an individual patient. Genital oncogenic HPV infection in a woman should not be treated as a venereal disease exclusively, and such patients should be counselled appropriately.” Abstract from:
Tay SK. Genital oncogenic human papillomavirus infection: a short review on the mode of transmission. Ann Acad Med Singapore. Jul 1995;24(4):598-601.