HPV vaccine

[Goth_Catholic]

Your posts seem to focus on that if a child is given a vaccine that somehow takes away a future choice.

A girl is still free to choose to be a virgin
A girl is still free to choose who she marries
A girl is still free to choose to turn down a man that she somehow, happens to find out, has HPV

You are not being clear what choice is being violated, by merely giving the girl a shot.

The right to make a choice.The right to know and deside for one’s self. Boppaid was planning to vaccinate her daughter without telling her why she was vaccinating her in the first place.

 

[Lady_D_I]

I’m going to come right out and say it:

I am disappointed with this thread. I know this subject is controversial which is why I asked for advice, but I do not think that bickering and barely-veiled insults are called for. We are a Christian website, and I think it would behoove us to act like it.

Thank you for all of the opinions, it’s something I’m going to have to discuss with my doctor, but I have a feeling I am going to end up getting the vaccine to be safe. Even if it doesn’t protect against every strain, it does protect against some, and some protection is better than none.

I’m sorry if anything I posted was misunderstood as bickering or an insult. My intent is to share info so parents make informed decisions. I would never intentionally offend anyone here.

Autumn

 

[Aleii]

The right to make a choice.The right to know and deside for one’s self. Boppaid was planning to vaccinate her daughter without telling her why she was vaccinating her in the first place.

You agreed with me earlier that healthcare choices are the responsibility of the parent. You seemed to have no problem with other vaccines in prior posts, just this one because of route of transmission. Yet, you aren’t being concrete enough for what choice is being violated by the parents decision to give this specific shot, since you don’t seem to have a problem with the others.

Are you saying this pre-teen child should have their way when it comes to healthcare in general or just this one shot? How about for other aspects of their life? Would you would be ok if your child refused the MMR vaccine? How about going to the doctor for a check up if they were sick? How about drinking their milk? Boppaid has specifically said she would not lie to her child if asked about the specifics of this vaccine. Do you remember ever asking about what one of your vaccines was for? Do you remember your parents ever going into detail about what one of your vaccines was for? If not, then what is the problem?

Edit: The point Boppaid is trying to make is that she will not initiate a conversation which may unnecessarily rile up her child before going to the doctor.

 

[Goth_Catholic]

You agreed with me earlier that healthcare choices are the responsibility of the parent. You seemed to have no problem with other vaccines in prior posts, just this one because of route of transmission. Yet, you aren’t being concrete enough for what choice is being violated by the parents decision to give this specific shot, since you don’t seem to have a problem with the others.

Are you saying this pre-teen child should have their way when it comes to healthcare in general or just this one shot?
Anything that would impact their sexuality.

How about for other aspects of their life? Would you would be ok if your child refused the MMR vaccine?
The MMR booster is made from aborted fetal tissue

How about going to the doctor for a check up if they were sick?
Depends on how sick
How about drinking their milk?
Should they have to drink milk if they dislike it, or just dont want it?
Boppaid has specifically said she would not lie to her child if asked about the specifics of this vaccine.
But only if her daughter asked.

Do you remember ever asking about what one of your vaccines was for?
Mmmhmm.
Do you remember your parents ever going into detail about what one of your vaccines was for?
Yes
If not, then what is the problem?

I belive in explaning things to children.

 

[ASimpleSinner]

I have sort of a dilemma. My mother is really encouraging me to get the HPV vaccine before I lose my opportunity (I’m 23 and right now 25 is the oldest you can be to get it.) She works in the lab of a hospital and sees on a daily basis how life-changing a diagnosis of HPV is. She also knows that I am saving sex for marriage. I talked to her on the phone tonight and she had a good point. She told me that just because I am not sexually active does not mean my future husband isn’t. I know there are many otherwise “good” catholic men (and women) who have engaged in premarital sex at some point in their life. She tells me I shouldn’t bet my reproductive health on my husband being honest with me about his sexual past.

Even so, I do feel kind of conflicted about the idea. I know it’s for my own good, but at the same time, it sort of feels like I’m saying “I trust you to be honest with me about your past, but I’m going to protect myself in case you’re not”, almost like getting a pre-nup. Advice?

How confident are you that you already know with certainty who your future husband is, and that he will be the only hubby you ever have?

I don’t wish to ennumerate some tragic “what-ifs” too specifically, but should you (God forbid) be coerced into a non-consensual encounter, this could be a good thing.

Should, you (God forbid) become a young widow the way two of my aunts in their late 30s did, and decide to reconsider marriage… Chances are as good as not, that the eligible parties may have had some “prodigal son years” that are firmly in the past but some effects, sadly, are still with them.

If you want to reject this option on the grounds that it is not proven as well as you would like, fine.

If you want to reject it on the grounds that you idealogically opposed to what it may be construed to say about your personal virtue or your partner’s morality… I would say leave the ideology at the door of the doctor’s office.

We don’t know what the future holds… an ounce of prevention!

 

[Aleii]

I belive in explaning things to children.

No one has ever said that people should be lying to children nor that people should not listen to and address the concerns of children. While obtaining understanding is great, it is not a requirement that a pre-teen child understands, only the parent signing the authorization. You still seem hung up that giving a child this particular shot somehow takes away a choice. Sexuality is an important part of a child’s overall health, and general genital/breast ailments are a parent’s responsibility to get treated just like any other. The parent-child relationship is simply not a democracy. If they happen to ask like you say you did, they’ll know, but there is nothing wrong with Boppaid’s method. We need to give parents the utmost support in their most important job of raising their child. I’ll respectfully disagree with you on the remainder of your posts.

Edit: Don’t forget, we are talking about a child who is 4-7 years younger than you, who possibly doesn’t even know about the birds and the bees yet.

 

[eisme3]

I posted a few days ago and have been reading the thread since. There are a lot of issues other than the promiscuity or sexuality question. I chose not to have ny daughter vaccinated. I am not deluding myself that she will eventually be sexually active, but I feel that the vaccine itself is not safe enough for her. It has not been tested long enough or on enough people.
I have also been vaccinated for the hep strains and did not sero convert. Which means it did not work for me. This gardasil vaccine also indicates they do notknow if 3 wil be enough or if a booster will be needed etc. I will wait and see.
I also wanted to know how many people(if any) are Canadian on this thread. The other issues I referred to are political, 300 million dollars is a lot of money could fund a lot of free health clinics, employ nurses or stock food banks. To fun for a vaccine which may or may not work for a cancer that is easily treated if caught on time with regular health screening and for which statistics show that the largest percent of women dieing are over 65, makes no sense to me. Thanks for reading

 

[Brenda_V]

I posted a few days ago and have been reading the thread since. There are a lot of issues other than the promiscuity or sexuality question. I chose not to have ny daughter vaccinated. I am not deluding myself that she will eventually be sexually active, but I feel that the vaccine itself is not safe enough for her. It has not been tested long enough or on enough people.
I have also been vaccinated for the hep strains and did not sero convert. Which means it did not work for me. This gardasil vaccine also indicates they do notknow if 3 wil be enough or if a booster will be needed etc. I will wait and see.
I also wanted to know how many people(if any) are Canadian on this thread. The other issues I referred to are political, 300 million dollars is a lot of money could fund a lot of free health clinics, employ nurses or stock food banks. To fun for a vaccine which may or may not work for a cancer that is easily treated if caught on time with regular health screening and for which statistics show that the largest percent of women dieing are over 65, makes no sense to me. Thanks for reading

Your concerns are my concerns - no I am not from Canada but from the US. I am far more concerned about the effectiveness or ineffectiveness of this vaccine. I have no problem with some one EeyoresButerflys age getting the vaccine - she is an adult and her immune system is better formed to resist any of the possible side effects. I don’t like the idea of adding this vaccine to my pre-teen daughter’s vax routine (not that I have any teen daughter’s, they are all grown). I got all of us the Hep B vaccine because I was at higher risk for getting it because I volunteered often as the “first aider” for Girl Scout events, I never had to take care of any injuries though but I would have been the one to do it should one occur - this put my daughter’s at a higher risk as well. I try to remember to get my tetanus booster (you know you need one every 10 years right?)

I really liked the information that Lady D I has given. I have seen the reports on the tests for the vaccine but nothing about HPV specifically - just that there are X# of strains and Y# are known causes of cervical cancer . Knowing more about the HPV is a good thing, it does help in advising people on what to do about this.

Brenda V.

 

[boppaid]

Blood. I’m bleeding, you have an open cut, I have hep B, I accidently bump into you, my blood gets into your cut, you become infected.

Also, your example may not be accurate. A woman I know had Hep for 25 years. For the first 15 years she did not know she had it. Often she bled in her home. She also had unprotected sex with her husband. She also cleaned her children’s cuts. None of them got the virus from her. I guess that could be anecdotal, but not according to the CDC. According to CDC it isn’t passed via casual contact. Bleeding into an open wound is not considered casual contact, technically. HIV is also passed that way, and you can’t get AIDS through casual contact.

 

[boppaid]

That was not necessary. I am simply offering some additional information and want to stress this route of transmission is controversial. Before you assume to know the evidence, I suggest your review the medical literature (primary resources). I’m just a nurse practitioner sharing the evidence. I’ll exit this thread now.

I appreciate your expert (name removed by moderator)ut in this discussion. Please don’t exit. I’ve noticed (not just on this board) that people hate hearing evidence that contradicts things they already believe. Heck, to a point all of us are like that. But, please be assured, I appreciate your contributions.

 

[boppaid]

How does a husband being a carrier or being raped have anything to do with the choices of the daughter?

That’s what I’m wondering too.

It’s never one’s choice to be raped and I would never imply that it is. As far as the husband being the carrier, who one marries is one’s choice, but I’m so sick of the husband arugment. If in another decade or more when these pre-teen girls get married, there isn’t at least a test to see if the man is infected, there is something wrong with medicine.

Are you serious? You’re going to deny a young girl a vax based on the presumption (no, more like expectation) that medical science will progress according to your standards? I honestly don’t know how to take this. Was it sarcasm? Or are you serious?

While you may be “sick of the husband argument”, it’s still a reality. Or do you claim that a man who has sinned not be allowed to take a wife? I’m confused as to why you think the husband argument is moot.

 

[boppaid]

Your posts seem to focus on that if a child is given a vaccine that somehow takes away a future choice.

A girl is still free to choose to be a virgin
A girl is still free to choose who she marries
A girl is still free to choose to turn down a man that she somehow, happens to find out, has HPV

You are not being clear what choice is being violated, by merely giving the girl a shot.

That’s what I’ve been trying to say. But you said it much clearer. Thank you.

 

[boppaid]

The right to make a choice.The right to know and deside for one’s self. Boppaid was planning to vaccinate her daughter without telling her why she was vaccinating her in the first place.

Wrong. I was planning on vaxing her without saying it was for STDs (unless she asked). I was planning on telling her what it was for, though (a virus that causes cancer).Geesh. Are you a parent? It doesn’t sound like it. Because, if you were, you’d understand that parents make decisions for their minor children all the time. A child should not be trusted to make all their decisions. Especially medical ones.

Boppaid has specifically said she would not lie to her child if asked about the specifics of this vaccine. Do you remember ever asking about what one of your vaccines was for? Do you remember your parents ever going into detail about what one of your vaccines was for? If not, then what is the problem?

Edit: The point Boppaid is trying to make is that she will not initiate a conversation which may unnecessarily rile up her child before going to the doctor.

Thank you. That is exactly what I’ve been trying to say.

 

[Goth_Catholic]

Wrong. **I was planning on vaxing her without saying it was for STDs **(unless she asked). I was planning on telling her what it was for, though (a virus that causes cancer).Geesh. Are you a parent? It doesn’t sound like it. Because, if you were, you’d understand that parents make decisions for their minor children all the time. A child should not be trusted to make all their decisions. Especially medical ones.

Why?

 

[boppaid]

Why? Actually, there is a myriad of reasons. First, as a parent you are not obligated to tell your child everything. While you don’t have to lie, sometimes it’s okay to not volunteer every bit of information from the onset. Second, because I’d rather she NOT think that this means she can have unprotected sex. Even if I tell her it won’t protect her from every disease, and that she should wait to have sex, it may give a young girl a false sense of security. And as her mother, I would like to protect her. And, all of us are sinners, so I’m not going to bank her health and life on the fact that this won’t be one of her future sins. Further, and perhaps most glaringly, **I think explaining sexually transmitted diseases to a 9 or 10 year old is WAY too much info too soon. **I can’t believe you don’t agree. Again, I must repeat my question (as it seems like you missed it): Are you a parent? It doesn’t sound like it. Because, if you were, you’d understand that parents make decisions for their minor children all the time. A child should not be trusted to make all their decisions. Especially medical ones.

I also wonder, would you not give the hep vax to your newborn because you haven’t fully explained to the child that it prevents a disease ALSO considered sexually transmitted?

 

[boppaid]

Goth, would you mind responding to all the questions I asked you? Most specifically, I’m wondering about the ones I’ve quoted below. Thanks.

You’re going to deny a young girl a vax based on the presumption (no, more like expectation) that medical science will progress according to your standards? I honestly don’t know how to take this. Was it sarcasm? Or are you serious?

While you may be “sick of the husband argument”, it’s still a reality. Or do you claim that a man who has sinned not be allowed to take a wife? I’m confused as to why you think the husband argument is moot.

 

[Goth_Catholic]

Why? Actually, there is a myriad of reasons. First, as a parent you are not obligated to tell your child everything. While you don’t have to lie, sometimes it’s okay to not volunteer every bit of information from the onset. Second, because I’d rather she NOT think that this means she can have unprotected sex. Even if I tell her it won’t protect her from every disease, and that she should wait to have sex, it may give a young girl a false sense of security. And as her mother, I would like to protect her. And, all of us are sinners, so I’m not going to bank her health and life on the fact that this won’t be one of her future sins. Further, and perhaps most glaringly, **I think explaining sexually transmitted diseases to a 9 or 10 year old is WAY too much info too soon. **I can’t believe you don’t agree. Again, I must repeat my question (as it seems like you missed it): Are you a parent? It doesn’t sound like it. Because, if you were, you’d understand that parents make decisions for their minor children all the time. A child should not be trusted to make all their decisions. Especially medical ones.

I also wonder, would you not give the hep vax to your newborn because you haven’t fully explained to the child that it prevents a disease ALSO considered sexually transmitted?

Really? When do you think the proper age is to tell her about STDS. By 9 or 10 most girls are close to if not already experiencing their periods. About the age the birds and the bees needs to be discussed.

I didn’t miss it, I just don’t belive I need to respond to it.

You’re going to deny a young girl a vax based on the presumption (no, more like expectation) that medical science will progress according to your standards? I honestly don’t know how to take this. Was it sarcasm? Or are you serious?

I’d like to say I never said she shouldn’t get the vaccine. Only that it should be her choice. And I don’t expect medical science to progress according to my standards. But in fact I belive they are already testing methods to test and prevent men from getting HPV.

While you may be “sick of the husband argument”, it’s still a reality. Or do you claim that a man who has sinned not be allowed to take a wife? I’m confused as to why you think the husband argument is moot.

I don’t. But it may be moot in years to come.

 

[boppaid]

Really? When do you think the proper age is to tell her about STDS. By 9 or 10 most girls are close to if not already experiencing their periods. About the age the birds and the bees needs to be discussed.

Talks with 9 year olds about sex are, indeed, important. But if you think they need to learn every detail at age 9, then I don’t know what to say to that. Agree to disagree? I will certainly tell her about her period, and probably will give some basic info about how a child is created, but I am NOT volunteering information she isn’t asking for. I have a 9 year old son. He doesn’t even WONDER yet about sex. Do you really think I’m going to bombard him with info about STDs?? Ask your clergyman or read any Christian parenting book. I’d be hardpressed to see that advice given. And if I did see that, I still wouldn’t adhere. It just sounds ridiculous to me. At 9 and 10 their primary sex education is learning about their bodies. NOT STDs.

I’d like to say I never said she shouldn’t get the vaccine. Only that it should be her choice.

Then you must agree that every vax should be a child’s choice.

And I don’t expect medical science to progress according to my standards. But in fact I belive they are already testing methods to test and prevent men from getting HPV.

If you’re willing to take that chance on your child’s life, fine. That is your choice. It probably will happen, but I wouldn’t bet my life on it! (Or, perhaps more accurately, my daughter’s)

I didn’t miss it, I just don’t belive I need to respond to it.

Okay. That’s certainly your’re call to answer whether or not you are a parent. I hope I didn’t offend you. I thought it was relevant to the debate, and I didn’t think it would be classified info. It would certainly give me perspective, though. If I were to find out you didn’t have children of your own, your attitude would make much more sense to me, and I wouldn’t be so appalled by what you’re saying. (And, take that for what it’s worth. I don’t mean anything mean by it. I just have to admit I’m reading your posts with my mouth hanging open. You have to understand…this is what I’m reading (& PLEASE correct me if I’m wrong…maybe I AM misunderstanding you)

• you think 9 year olds and 10 year olds should make their own medical decisions
• You think 9 and 10 year olds should be educated about STDs
• you think it’s okay to give a baby for a vax for a STD (hep) without informing the baby, yet you believe that you must inform your child that the HPV vax is for an STD

I don’t. But it may be moot in years to come.

I have no idea what this means. Sorry.

 

[Goth_Catholic]

• you think 9 year olds and 10 year olds should make their own medical decisions
  Only when it involes sex. If your daughter was raped and became pregnant, would you allow her to deside wether or not to keep her baby?
• You think 9 and 10 year olds should be educated about STDs
  Unforchently, in our society, yes. I just read a post a few days ago about a nine year old who was pregnant.
• you think it’s okay to give a baby for a vax for a STD (hep) without informing the baby, yet you believe that you must inform your child that the HPV vax is for an STD

Hep can spread in ways other then sex, which is why they vaccinate babies. cervical cancer causing Hpv (based on what is known to date) cannot be spread in any way other then genital contact.

 

[boppaid]

Okay, I think we’re getting somewhere, although I think we’ll still have to agree to disagree.

* you think 9 year olds and 10 year olds should make their own medical decisions
  Only when it involes sex. If your daughter was raped and became pregnant, would you allow her to deside wether or not to keep her baby?

Okay, again agree to disagree. I would NOT allow my 9 year old to raise a baby should she become pregnant, God forbid.

• You think 9 and 10 year olds should be educated about STDs
  Unforchently, in our society, yes. I just read a post a few days ago about a nine year old who was pregnant.

Would you back that up with just one published Christian opinion? I honestly have never even heard anyone suggest that 9 year olds must be taught about STDs and every other sexual detail. How about oral sex? Should I approach my 9 year old son, who is buy still playing with cars, and tell him what oral sex is? She I walk into the room where my8 year old neice is playing with her barbies, and ask if she’s ever heard of herpes?

• you think it’s okay to give a baby for a vax for a STD (hep) without informing the baby, yet you believe that you must inform your child that the HPV vax is for an STD

Hep can spread in ways other then sex, which is why they vaccinate babies. cervical cancer causing Hpv (based on what is known to date) cannot be spread in any way other then genital contact.

Please check CDC…both are considered diseases which are spread sexually, and it explicitly says that neither HPV nor Hep are spread by casual contact. Sure, hep can be spread in ways other than sex, but so can HPV. Both instances are extremely rare. Remember the lady I just told you about who had Hep for years without knowing, cutting herself here and there around the house with little children, never sanitizing things behind her, and no one in her household contacted the virus.

Regardless, either a minor child is able to make medical decisions or not. You say that if it involves sex, the decision should be the child’s. (Why sex is the magic issue with you, I still have no idea). I say that if it is a life and death issue, it’s a no-brainer…the parent makes the call. Always.