Huge Abortion Photos to be Flown Today Over University of Notre Dame to Stop the Abortion Cover-Up

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Having been openly pro-life in college, to the point of having once spent an entire class session debating the immorality of birth control with an instructor in front of hundreds of students, I would have attended the pro-life demonstration on my graduation day while wearing my cap and gown. 🙂 👍 :cool:

~~ the phoenix
It would only be a good idea if you could make sure none of the professors drooling over available seats would jump into your vacant seat. You would need to make sure you had a seat holder. I suggest you take red clothes. Then stuff them creating a satan dummy and put a satan mask on the stuffed dummy. Put your satan dummy in your seat so no one takes your seat.
 
***I hope this converts Obama to considering to change his stance on the abortion issue. The students should not be dismayed that there will be these abortion photos flying overhead, as much as a proabortion president coming to speak at their commencement. :rolleyes: What a slap in the face for all they believe in, and their hard work at a Catholic university!

But, God works in mysterious ways. On the flipside, it might take a Catholic community to reach out a hand to someone like Obama, to show him Truth. Let’s have hope.

Know this, in the end …good will always conquer evil. The ‘right to abortion’ people might feel like they are ‘winning’ now, but God will always conquer evil.***
 
It would only be a good idea if you could make sure none of the professors drooling over available seats would jump into your vacant seat. You would need to make sure you had a seat holder. I suggest you take red clothes. Then stuff them creating a satan dummy and put a satan mask on the stuffed dummy. Put your satan dummy in your seat so no one takes your seat.
Well, I wouldn’t really mind giving up my seat … But I’d rather not give it up to a drooling professor! Couldn’t we at least find a professor without such an annoying habit?!? 😛

You do raise an interesting point, actually. Now if I were standing outside my own graduation protesting it as a pro-lifer, I would prefer not to have anyone at all take my vacant seat. I would prefer to leave it conspicuously vacant by my absence from it.

~~ the phoenix
 
I feel most sorry for the students who are graduating. Their special day is being turned into a political circus by both sides of the arguement [sic].

How would (general) you feel if on your graduation day there were banners and trucks of aborted babies being displayed? How would (general) you feel if on your special day the only thing people could talk about was how someone shouldn’t be giving a speach [sic]? I think many are forgetting that this is a graduation of students not an open forum to protest.
…

I do feel sorry for the seniors, especially those who are devout. One of the biggest days in their young lives will be marred by this whole mess.
Nobody seems to feel sorry for the additional babies who will die because 0bama was elected instead of McCain.

Can either of you two tell me how you would feel if you were a baby saved by these pictures?

Can either of you two tell me why it seems that only evil has free speech rights and that truth must be silent because it is inconvenient?

I sense a feeling of despair in your two posts, i.e., X number of babies are going to be aborted no matter what we do. This is wrong because we will just give up trying, and then no minds will be changed, nothing will get accomplished.
 

That really does not seem a terribly good idea. It’s intrusive. If Catholics were exposed to huge photos of contraceptives, they would be entirely within their rights to complain; and so, surely, are those who do not want to have photos of aborted foetuses forced on their attention in this way. This kind of thing is all too likely to be counter-productive - which is the very reverse of the purpose intended by showing these pictures.​

There’s a very narrow line between acting to spread one’s own ideas, & inflicting them on a captive audience - ISTM this idea crosses that line. There are better ways, because less questionable ways, to achieve the same end, such as education.
 

That really does not seem a terribly good idea. It’s intrusive. If Catholics were exposed to huge photos of contraceptives, they would be entirely within their rights to complain; and so, surely, are those who do not want to have photos of aborted foetuses forced on their attention in this way.​

i completely agree they are free to complain. just dont expect me to give them any sympathy. obama works hard to make sure images like these occur thousands of time every day. let him have a glimpse of what is being reaped.
 
Fr. Frank Pavone, Priests for Life, has said;

"America will not reject abortion until it sees abortion" priestsforlife.org/images/index.aspx#galleries.

We cannot be shy or timid, we are not the ones murdering innocent babies!

We cannot let the “pro-choice” (the “CHOICE” IS MURDER!) crowd redefine the truth with PC terms like “choice, reproductive privacy rights, women’s reproductive health care…”

Read what the abortionists have said in court under oath describing these gruesome procedures which include pulling off limbs with forceps and sucking a living baby from a mother’s womb!

We are so “shocked and outraged?” by pictures of the reality of abortion, a gruesome death caused by the abortionist, but we will watch movies and television with equally disgusting violence for “entertainment?”

But - abortions are events in the “real world”; seeing Arnie blow people to smithereens is fictional violence within a fiction. The fictional setting of the violence “insulates” the violence from the real world. No one but a person with an extremely tenuous connection to reality seriously imagines that the narratives in wwhich they are characters are real history.​

Whether even that type of violence is something decent human beings should watch, is another matter. Maybe they should not. It’s different from the barbarities of the circus to which the Fathers objected, in that living men really were “butchered to make a Roman holiday” - whereas the violence in films is simulated; these films may be objectionable, but they are not “snuff movies”; the actors are all actors; they are not being dismembered, tortured or killed in reality.

How far does one go in rejecting this kind of thing ? And on what principles ? The OT is packed with violence - do we reject the OT ? Maybe it should be rejected; or at the very least, censored, or expurgated, or the violent episodes not be read until the age of 30. Western literature is full of wars, violence, & so on, & has been for 3,000 years. So the idea that entertainment should reject violence could be very difficult to piut into practice. Christianity is founded on an act of violence - there’s nothing very anti-septic about crucifixion.
Some say, “movies and TV are not reality” and they are 100% correct! If we will not look at the reality of the massive holocaust being carried out on our watch and don’t try to stop it, then we are as guilty as those who execute these innocent babies for profit!!!

Sancta Marai, Mater Dei, Ora Pro Nobis Peccatoribus!

Mark

How does not looking at abortions or pictures of it make us or anyone complicit in abortion, or favourable to it, or guilty of it :confused: ?​

 
i completely agree they are free to complain. just dont expect me to give them any sympathy. obama works hard to make sure images like these occur thousands of time every day. let him have a glimpse of what is being reaped.

So - rights are for Catholics only ? The issue for Catholics is not the giving of sympathy to people whose ideas they reject, but freedom in law & prudence in the choice of means to attain an end; for those who belong to neither group, it’s a question of freedom in law - the freedom not to be bothered by intrusive propaganda.​

How this affects Obama, is beyond me.
 
… for those who belong to neither group, it’s a question of freedom in law - the freedom not to be bothered by intrusive propaganda.
Where did you dig that one up? If there were such a freedom [or right], commercial advertisements would be illegal. Since commercials don’t seem to bother you enough to start a thread about them, the only conclusion is you are bothered by the message the pictures convey. At least the court saw that argument for what it was.
 
So ignorance is better then knowing what is happening to those unwanted babies? Sorry if society wants to allow this atrocity then society must be shown what this is truly like.

I believe that WWII would have ended sooner if photos were shown of those murdered and starved in Europe.
 

So - rights are for Catholics only ? The issue for Catholics is not the giving of sympathy to people whose ideas they reject, but freedom in law & prudence in the choice of means to attain an end; for those who belong to neither group, it’s a question of freedom in law - the freedom not to be bothered by intrusive propaganda.​

How this affects Obama, is beyond me.
this post is just foolishness.
  1. i agreed that both Catholics and others have a right to protest things they dont like. i simply said i didnt care if the people supporting the holocaust are offended i didnt care.
  2. the law is there to protect people. the law allows people to murder babies. it is an unjust law. therefore it gets no consideration.
  3. how is showing the truth propaganda? propaganda is saying its a choice, or a womans healtch care issue, or something we have the freedom to not be bothered about.
abortion is always wrong. supporting it is always wrong. encourgaging it is always wrong. making it easier is always wrong. using taxpayer money to fund it is always wrong. the president has shown he has no moral authority to rule. he is unjust and unfit. thus i support any protest against his genocide of the unborn.
 
Regarding the pro-life students … very sadly, the pro-life students are a tiny minority on the campus. This is one of the biggest scandals in itself. How could the entire ND campus not be pro-life?

Beyond that, the posters, trucks and fly-overs seem to be having a huge effect. The response is very negative - people complain about how “disgusting” it is. But this only shows that they’re thinking about themselves and not of the real life of the children.

Pictures of the holocaust help turn people away from the Nazi crimes. Imagine hearing people complain about how “disgusting” pictures of murdered Jews are. They’re not thinking about the victims at all. The same is true of those who object to the photos of what really happens to the children in abortion. Instead of complaints, we should kneel down and weep about what has happened – and ask for mercy – and try to stop it entirely.

I’m glad the signs and arial advertising is going out – and that many are protesting on campus.

I also agree that the swipe at the pro-life students was not necessary. Its the 70% who don’t care at all (or who are pro-abortion) who are a major problem.
 
When my children were in high school back in the '80’s there were two smoking areas on the high school campus. The faculty had their own smoking room. When I joined the PTA I and other parents started a campaign against smoking on campus. It took four years but we finally closed down the smoking areas. One of the first things we did was to put posters all over the school showing mouth cancer victims, dirty lungs, and as many ugly pictures of smokers we could find. Abortion was not a known problem back then but if I had known about it I would have been just as agressive putting up posters of aborted babies. Now, in the politically correct 21st century, parents would be sued if they tried something like that.
 

So - rights are for Catholics only ? The issue for Catholics is not the giving of sympathy to people whose ideas they reject, but freedom in law & prudence in the choice of means to attain an end; for those who belong to neither group, it’s a question of freedom in law - the freedom not to be bothered by intrusive propaganda.​

How this affects Obama, is beyond me.
If it brings Obama to realized the horror of abortion, I’d say pro-lifers have accomplished their goal.

If not, he’s would remain a hard hearted man. We having nothing to lose but a possibility of something to gain.
 
This is Freedom of Speech in action. Regardless of what one feels about abortion, how can anyone who believes in The Constitution be against people expressing themselves peacefully? Images are a form of speech and more effective than words. When I was 8 there were anti-fur activists at the mall with pictures of skinned animals. Guess what…I don’t wear fur.
 
I think Christina has given some great responses on this topic, and as a graduating ND student wanted to add a few of my own words.
If you’re looking to assign blame, make sure you put it in the right place…squarely on the shoulders of Father Jenkins, the board, and whoever else made this boneheaded decision. Claiming that Notre Dame pro-life groups are diminishing the evil of abortion is not only untrue, it’s quite counterproductive. We are all working towards the same goal here…why the need to demean groups who choose not to use aggressive tactics?
\

When this whole mess got started, I was reading and commenting on Jill Stanek’s blog, where quite a few people were getting impatient for a student response and jumping the gun (IMO), booking flights and hotels to come to ND to protest and “turn this into a circus,” in Randall Terry’s words. When I asked for people to hold their horses, and then–perish the thought–let the relatively strong pro-life movement on campus lead the charge with protests and official responses, I was told to “stop the infighting” and not to take swipes at outsiders who were “on my side”.

Well this just seems to be the biggest swipe a pro-lifer could take at those working to defend life at ND that I could think of. Actually blaming those active in Right to Life here for this invitation? As if students have any say in the actions of the administration (and as if these same students hadn’t already learned this lesson the long-and-hard way through many, many similar battles during their time here…)

It’s just too much.
Not necessarily blaming pro-life students, BUT, I don’t think they did all they can. C’mon, no abortion pics! What are they…wimps?

Those hard hearted pro-abortion people need a stronger dose of reality check, and if it takes abortion pics to do it, so be it.
If that doesn’t wake them up, can’t say pro-lifers didn’t do their best.

Same goal, maybe not the most efficient tactic.

If Fr. Jenkins sees abortion pics, like imprint it on his bone head , who knows if ND would be in such a scandal today.
As for Notre Dame in particular–even though the student body generally supports President Obama’s invitation to Commencement, I wouldn’t at all characterize everyone here as “hard-hearted pro-abortion people”. The student body is ~85% Catholic; sacramental participation is quite high. Community service and social justice-y type commitments are popular, and somewhere along the way students here lost sight of the right to life as a fundamental moral principle in the Catholic faith. An important one, yes, and perhaps top of the list of many others when we are discussing Catholic social teaching.

So what I’m trying to say is that pro-life protests at ND take a different tenor at ND than they do at other schools. Students here are generally already grounded in Catholic faith; what is important is to re-orient it towards the right to life. Prayer and student events try to do that. ND has a Cemetery of the Innocents every year and many other life-supporting events (such as events to support the local Women’s Care Center, which provides pro-life counseling, free pregnancy testing, and baby/mommy supplies to many local women). We attempt to be more positive in our affirmation of life, while being honest about the reality of abortion, rather than emblazoning the quads with graphic images. Criticize away, but in my time here I have seen this positive approach as much more constructive in reaching out to those who don’t share our pro-life passion than the alternative…

But overall, I would say that within the pro-life movement there is no consensus about the use of graphic abortion pictures. If we’re honest, I’d say we have to admit that they are not the best medium for every situation. It’s one thing to have a rational debate with someone, realize that you are no longer making progress, and ask to take them aside to look at some photos. It is quite another to post enormous photos of innocent aborted children on the sides of trucks, on billboards, and in the sky. I don’t have any children yet, but I would say that I wouldn’t want them to see these pictures while driving down the street–it is undeniably too much for a small child to handle. There seems to be a shortage of prudence on the part of the CBR which is chartering these planes…

My other major issue with these images is that I do not at all believe that using them so wantonly is at all pro-life. They are used for their shock value; the images chosen for trucks and airplanes are the most striking, the bloodiest, the most horrible image of a dead baby to be found. But it doesn’t matter what abortion looks like; what matters is what abortion does–it destroys an innocent human life. And to use images of the victims of this crime against human life in such a way objectifies them. It does not protect uphold their dignity as children of God; it uses them as a means to an end, however noble that end may be. We don’t fight the evil of pornography with enormous pornographic images, do we? This is similar, in my mind.

That all said, I am glad that I am far from campus when that plane is flying overhead, for the most part. Aborted children in the sky? This is a new form of hell. :mad:
 
My other major issue with these images is that I do not at all believe that using them so wantonly is at all pro-life. They are used for their shock value; the images chosen for trucks and airplanes are the most striking, the bloodiest, the most horrible image of a dead baby to be found. But it doesn’t matter what abortion looks like; what matters is what abortion does–it destroys an innocent human life. And to use images of the victims of this crime against human life in such a way objectifies them. It does not protect uphold their dignity as children of God; it uses them as a means to an end, however noble that end may be. We don’t fight the evil of pornography with enormous pornographic images, do we? This is similar, in my mind.
i could not disagree more. yes to an extent the pictures are used for shock value, but why is that bad. there are so many pro-abortion people that have been convinced by decades of propoganda that abortion only removes a blob of tissue. they need to see the reality, their hard hearts wont listen to words.

and yes, it matters what abortion lookslike. it is gruesome. after WWII they showed people the horrors of the concentration camps, it let people know the stories were true. it showed them how bad it was. was that wrong?

the unborn innocent have had their lives stolen. they will never see the sun. never go to school, but that doesnt mean they cant ever contribute to society. by seeing their corpses maybe hearts will be changed and they can ensure themselves that their lives did not end in vain.
 
i could not disagree more. yes to an extent the pictures are used for shock value, but why is that bad. there are so many pro-abortion people that have been convinced by decades of propoganda that abortion only removes a blob of tissue. they need to see the reality, their hard hearts wont listen to words.

and yes, it matters what abortion lookslike. it is gruesome. after WWII they showed people the horrors of the concentration camps, it let people know the stories were true. it showed them how bad it was. was that wrong?

the unborn innocent have had their lives stolen. they will never see the sun. never go to school, but that doesnt mean they cant ever contribute to society. by seeing their corpses maybe hearts will be changed and they can ensure themselves that their lives did not end in vain.
In my experience, hard hearts seem to be hardened even more when these images are thrown into the mix so brazenly. As I said, it is one thing to have a discussion with a pro-abortion person, realize you are no longer making headway with dialogue, and ask them if they know what abortion looks like or does. Throwing the images in their face is another.

There is a world of difference between showing the film Night and Fog to bring to reality the horrors of the Holocaust and plastering images of aborted children on trucks and banners. To me, this is undeniable. The images are not contextualized and are not targeted to anyone in particular.

The local paper here is carrying stories of parents and grandparents dealing with small children, 2 and 3 years old, seeing these images on the streets. “Look, mommy, a bloody baby, a bloody arm. What is wrong with her? What happened?” Young children driving about their hometown should not be targeted in this debate. End of discussion.

Moreover, I don’t think you’ve sufficiently addressed my point about human dignity. HOW does blowing up an image of that particular child of God, who was so ruthlessly, senselessly murdered, FOR THE PURPOSE of “shock value” adequately protect their dignity as a child of God? How does it prevent this person, already so sinned against as to have their life stolen away from them, from being turned into an object? Notice that in all of this we talk about “abortion photos” and “graphic images”–never once admitting the tragedy that has befallen this particular human being, so young and apparently unwanted as to not even have been given the dignity of a name.

A few quotes from the CCC to chew on:
1931 Respect for the human person proceeds by way of respect for the principle that “everyone should look upon his neighbor (without any exception) as 'another self,’ above all bearing in mind his life and the means necessary for living it with dignity.”
2274 Since it must be treated from conception as a person, the embryo must be defended in its integrity, cared for, and healed, as far as possible, like any other human being.
2300 The bodies of the dead must be treated with respect and charity, in faith and hope of the Resurrection. The burial of the dead is a corporal work of mercy;91 it honors the children of God, who are temples of the Holy Spirit.
 
My other major issue with these images is that I do not at all believe that using them so wantonly is at all pro-life. They are used for their shock value; the images chosen for trucks and airplanes are the most striking, the bloodiest, the most horrible image of a dead baby to be found. But it doesn’t matter what abortion looks like; what matters is what abortion does–it destroys an innocent human life. And to use images of the victims of this crime against human life in such a way objectifies them. It does not protect uphold their dignity as children of God; it uses them as a means to an end, however noble that end may be. We don’t fight the evil of pornography with enormous pornographic images, do we? This is similar, in my mind.

That all said, I am glad that I am far from campus when that plane is flying overhead, for the most part. Aborted children in the sky? This is a new form of hell. :mad:
It feels like objectification to me, too. For those of you who think this is a great idea…would you be okay with anti-war protesters using pictures of horribly mangled dead soldiers in their protests? I imagine that a soldier who came up against an IED would end up looking much like those poor babies. Is it okay to use pictures of their bodies to illustrate the horrors of war? Is that something you would want your children to see?

Although, I don’t understand why pro-choice people would be upset over this. If they believe it’s just medical waste, why the big deal? 🤷 It seems it would be more upsetting to those who DO recognize the humanity of these poor children. I know it certainly was upsetting to me…made me extremely sad to see it. 😦
 
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