Hugging or kisses spouses during mass

[jmvbxx]

I just finished reading this thread Is it ok for married couples to embrace during Mass?

The issue at question is whether or not a married couple is “allowed” to kiss, embrace or hug during the sign of peace.

It appears to me at first blush to be more of a cultural issue rather than a liturgical one. I live in Colombia and it is the norm for family members, friends and close acquaintances to kiss during the sign of the peace. It would be considered odd if one were to simply extend their hand for a polite shake.

Any one have any personal experience or comment on this?

 

[CHRISTINE77]

I just finished reading this thread Is it ok for married couples to embrace during Mass?

The issue at question is whether or not a married couple is “allowed” to kiss, embrace or hug during the sign of peace.

It appears to me at first blush to be more of a cultural issue rather than a liturgical one. I live in Colombia and it is the norm for family members, friends and close acquaintances to kiss during the sign of the peace. It would be considered odd if one were to simply extend their hand for a polite shake.

Any one have any personal experience or comment on this?

I think it is cultural. What ever is appropriate to your culture is probably fine, and Columbians are probably naturally more demonstrative than North Americans.

However, I agree with the apologist’s answer, because I think it is inappropriate in church, especially when couples are hanging onto each other not only during the sign of peace, but during the service in general. Sexual affection for one another should not be displayed in any public forum, particularily not church!!

 

[JimG]

I think that this is the thread you were making reference to.

 

[Mattapoisett64]

I think it is cultural. What ever is appropriate to your culture is probably fine, and Columbians are probably naturally more demonstrative than North Americans.

However, I agree with the apologist’s answer, because I think it is inappropriate in church, especially when couples are hanging onto each other not only during the sign of peace, but during the service in general. Sexual affection for one another should not be displayed in any public forum, particularily not church!!

I was glad to see this thread because I was in the process of starting my own on this topic. I disagree totally with the apologist’s response. The question wasn’t whether it was appropriate to “hang onto each other” at the Sign of Peace or during Mass, but whether it was acceptable to hug one’s spouse at the Sign of Peace. Let’s check the GIRM:

*“At the same time, in accord with the decisions of the Conference of Bishops, all offer one another a sign that expresses peace, communion, and charity.” *(GIRM # 154)

This says “a sign,” not “a handshake.” For starters. “a sign” is surely influenced by cultural factors. I submit that it is bizarre and unreasonable to hold that a handshake between spouses expresses “peace, communion, and charity.” I am also not saying that it is appropriate to go around the church hugging everyone either – my point is reserved to spouses, and to an appropriate gesture, not near-foreplay (which some will no doubt construe my response to endorse). For similar reasons I would also think a kiss on the cheek is similarly appropriate. Between spouses. Fathers and daughters, too. No one is supporting a display of “sexual affection,” and to claim that is to totally distort the original question and the intent of those who, like myself, don’t resort to handshaking with my spouse and daughter.

That said, at our parish one priest hugs the deacon, and if there is more than one deacon, the deacons hug each other, too.

Honestly, there are times I think that anything less solemn than a Carthusian liturgy isn’t acceptable to some of the folks here.

 

[pnewton]

I think that this is the thread you were making reference to.

The interesting thing on this thread answer is that it is one of the few that there is no reference to the Church teaching on this. Therefore, I would think it more prudent to speak where the Church speaks and refrain from unnecessary burdens where the Church does not speak. I think also, the culture we were raised in affects this. I was born and raised in Texas, yet I can tell you for a fact people hug each other quite a bit more than is indicated by this response, especially women. I do not think I have ever shaken hands with my wife (or children) that is simply not our culture.

 

[Annabelle_Marie]

Oh good. I was wondering about this too. I hug my spouse. If my uncle or dad is in church they hug me. But I don’t see anything wrong with this…it is a quick hug and then on to a handshake for people around us…I guess I don’t see the big deal about this. What does the Church say about this? Does anyone know?

 

[OraLabora]

However, I agree with the apologist’s answer, because I think it is inappropriate in church, especially when couples are hanging onto each other not only during the sign of peace, but during the service in general. Sexual affection for one another should not be displayed in any public forum, particularily not church!!

Hmm, big jump to “sexual affection”. Perhaps you should look at how Benedictine monks make the sign of the peace. They first they bow to each other with their hands together, then they hold each other lightly in an embrace, and kiss each other on each cheek “French-style”.

I really think it’s cultural. When my wife comes to Mass with me (she’s Anglican), we certainly do kiss each other but it is by no means sexual. And I do the same when I go to her church.

 

[Petergee]

I must say I was quite shocked to see this answer from the usually very sensible Michelle Arnold.

I would feel quite an idiot shaking hands with my wife, daughter, mother or sister if she were standing next to me, instead of giving her a chaste hug and kiss. I never shake hands with them at any other time, why should I do so at Mass? If I want to greet them or show that i am at peace with them outside of Mass, I hug/kiss them. I certainly don’t feel that the woman in the pew in front of me is being unjustly discriminatory or selective in her sharing of Christ’s peace because she hugs and kisses her husband but “only” shakes my hand or nods at me.

Secondly it is an old established custom, even I believe allowed for in the rubrics of the Tridentine Mass, for the celebrant to embrace the server/s at the Sign of Peace.

Her quip that priests should not hug servers because of sexual abuse scandals was quite inappropriate and off-colour.

 

[pnewton]

I must say I was quite shocked to see this answer from the usually very sensible Michelle Arnold.

I even had one divergent opinion once with Karl Keating once when he posted on here. It happens. It is because these folks here at CAF are so good that it makes us go, “Whoa!” when we do not see things exactly as they do. I would off the OP a suggestion and recomment he simply talk to his priest about it. He would have a good feel for what is appropriate at his parish. Even within America, cultures can vary significantly.

 

[JimG]

People will do what they want. I think Michelle Arnold’s main point though, was that in the context of Mass, the Sign of Peace is intended as a liturgical gesture, not as a public display of affection, or even an outward display of friendship. We can and should, after all, offer the sign of peace even to those we may not like.

The rubric was even in the old Tridentine rite though. The priest turned toward the congregation and said “Pax Domini sit semper Vobiscum,” to which we responded “Et cum spiritu tuo.”

 

[FrDavid96]

The problem with the Sign of Peace is that people have forgotten what it’s all about, and instead have turned it into a “this works for me” moment.

This is NOT the time to express personal relationships. It is a symbolic gesture, and it is a communal moment in the Mass. If one exchanges the sign-of-peace with friends or relatives any differently than with complete strangers (or for that matter, someone you don’t like very much), then the whole meaning has been lost.

Personally, I am of the opinion that this has gone so far astray from the true purpose in the Mass that, unfortunately, it should probably be dropped altogether.

 

[puzzleannie]

I "At the same time, in accord with the decisions of the Conference of Bishops, all offer one another a sign that expresses peace, communion, and charity." (GIRM # 154)

This says “a sign,” not “a handshake.” For starters. “a sign” is surely influenced by cultural factors. I submit that it is bizarre and unreasonable to hold that a handshake between spouses expresses “peace, communion, and charity.” I

some of my fellow parishioners would agree with you because the culture here is definitely pro-hugging, and it has taken this English-German relict a long time to get comfortable with that as the standard greeting. But being married to another German, we just are not into PDAs and we have been teased for it. I started working here while DH was still up north, and when he came back several colleagues said they did not realize I was married, because we just shake hands.

 

[EasterJoy]

I must say I was quite shocked to see this answer from the usually very sensible Michelle Arnold.

I would feel quite an idiot shaking hands with my wife, daughter, mother or sister if she were standing next to me, instead of giving her a chaste hug and kiss. I never shake hands with them at any other time, why should I do so at Mass? If I want to greet them or show that i am at peace with them outside of Mass, I hug/kiss them. I certainly don’t feel that the woman in the pew in front of me is being unjustly discriminatory or selective in her sharing of Christ’s peace because she hugs and kisses her husband but “only” shakes my hand or nods at me.

Secondly it is an old established custom, even I believe allowed for in the rubrics of the Tridentine Mass, for the celebrant to embrace the server/s at the Sign of Peace.

Her quip that priests should not hug servers because of sexual abuse scandals was quite inappropriate and off-colour.

I think perhaps she does not understand that there are appropriate ways for adults to hug children not in their own families. There is.

Generally speaking, though, IMHO if you hug members of your family during the sign of peace, that is an invitation for any other Catholic near you to go ahead and give you a hug, even if the church roof has been your only introduction.

 

[benedictgal]

The problem with the Sign of Peace is that people have forgotten what it’s all about, and instead have turned it into a “this works for me” moment.

This is NOT the time to express personal relationships. It is a symbolic gesture, and it is a communal moment in the Mass. If one exchanges the sign-of-peace with friends or relatives any differently than with complete strangers (or for that matter, someone you don’t like very much), then the whole meaning has been lost.

Personally, I am of the opinion that this has gone so far astray from the true purpose in the Mass that, unfortunately, it should probably be dropped altogether.

My dad and I shake hands. It’s not about demonstrating love for each other. It’s about greeting each other in a sober manner that fits the ritual. Unfortunately, the sign of peace has turned into a love fest of sorts. It should be done soberly and charitably.

Interestingly enough, when a priest friend of mine celebrates Mass, he places his hands on the altar server’s shoulders and bows. He also greets the deacon in the same manner. Evidentlly, the Holy Father does the same thing when he imparts the sign of peace to his concelebrates, deacons and MCs.

 

[mick321]

I must say I was quite shocked to see this answer from the usually very sensible Michelle Arnold.

I would feel quite an idiot shaking hands with my wife, daughter, mother or sister if she were standing next to me, instead of giving her a chaste hug and kiss. I never shake hands with them at any other time, why should I do so at Mass? If I want to greet them or show that i am at peace with them outside of Mass, I hug/kiss them. I certainly don’t feel that the woman in the pew in front of me is being unjustly discriminatory or selective in her sharing of Christ’s peace because she hugs and kisses her husband but “only” shakes my hand or nods at me.

Secondly it is an old established custom, even I believe allowed for in the rubrics of the Tridentine Mass, for the celebrant to embrace the server/s at the Sign of Peace.

Her quip that priests should not hug servers because of sexual abuse scandals was quite inappropriate and off-colour.

I have not seen the OF-style “Sign of Peace” exchanged during a TLM or EF Liturgy.

Has anyone?
.

 

[5Loaves]

I just finished reading this thread Is it ok for married couples to embrace during Mass?

The issue at question is whether or not a married couple is “allowed” to kiss, embrace or hug during the sign of peace.

It appears to me at first blush to be more of a cultural issue rather than a liturgical one. I live in Colombia and it is the norm for family members, friends and close acquaintances to kiss during the sign of the peace. It would be considered odd if one were to simply extend their hand for a polite shake.

Any one have any personal experience or comment on this?

“In our society, hugging and kissing is reserved for intimates while handshakes are exchanged with friends, acquaintances, and strangers. .” Catholic Answers Apologist

I think this Catholic Answers Apologist is showing his Northern European culture. This isn’t the culture I grew up in in Northern California, and I’m a senior not some young kid.

I’m a fifth generation American from a Mediterranean family. Everyone in my American family hugs and kisses on the cheek. Beyond my family hugs and kisses on the cheeks are usually exchanged with friends, even acquaintances, and in some situations with strangers. That* is* the equivalent of a hand shake in many areas in the US. And in other areas it would be considered odd. I went to college and grad school in IN and handshakes were the norm for greeting.

In Eastern Catholic Churches in certain liturgies such as Forgiveness Sunday, the priest does the hug/kiss left. right. left to every member of the parish, and we all do it to one another. At the altar during every Divine Liturgy the priests do the same hug/kiss left, right, left with one another a number of times during the Liturgy.

There is no passing of the Peace of the Lord within the Divine Liturgy in the Byzantine Churches. But certainly before and after DL we tend to greet one another, including clergy, with the same hug/kiss left, right, left, and in the case of the priest, we also kiss his hand.

In the Latin Church I was in this past Saturday the middle aged couple next to me were engaged in a very extended kiss. While it’s typical for couples of all ages and cultures to kiss one another with a “peck” on the cheek or the lips during the Peace in this parish, my husband and I do, this quite extended kiss was a new one for me and I thought not appropriate.

 

[pnewton]

Hand-shaking is just a cultural symbol that is far from universal even in America. The Scripture even uses the term “kiss of peace”. I am curious, according to the Church, has this ever been described as being a hand-shake only, or has a hug or kiss ever been proscribed behavior? I only ask as I really believe in speaking where the Church speaks and not creating additional conditions and rules where the Church is silent. Otherwise, all we are doing is exchanging opinions, when we ought to allow each to act in accord to their own prudence.

 

[Phemie]

People will do what they want. I think Michelle Arnold’s main point though, was that in the context of Mass, the Sign of Peace is intended as a liturgical gesture, not as a public display of affection, or even an outward display of friendship. We can and should, after all, offer the sign of peace even to those we may not like.

That reminded me of a priest who told us about his group of catechumens. In the group was a Croat and in the parish was a Serb. The Croat would never share the sign of peace with the Serb and until she did the community did not consider her ready for Baptism.

Traditionally it was called the kiss of peace and involved more than a handshake. I know that my non-Catholic husband’s first reaction is to hug me but I don’t feel comfortable doing that because it’s a ritual moment and not about me or us.

 

[paperwight]

I, too, was shocked at the Ask the Apologist’s answer. The original question was definitely not referring to embarrassing PDA, which I am sure we can all agree are inappropriate.

I see no problem in married couples giving each other a quick peck on the lips, and I’ll be honest, we’ve more than once used at as a making-up after a disagreement earlier in the day.

As for mums shaking hands with their own children…

I have to say that sadly, I have noticed this mismatch between question and references given to already-composed replies before.

 

[puzzleannie]

only one further note, the kiss of peace (or culturally appropriate gesture of peace) is supposed to be extended to those around us, but what I see here is that the family exhanges hugs and kisses, but often makes no gesture at all to other unrelated people around them, which kind of defeats the meaning. This can and does, because people speak about it all the time especially RCIA members, leave widowed and single people, visitors or new people feeling left out. Folks will even run out of the pew to hug other relatives, ignoring anyone else they pass.