Hugo Chavez in Embarassing to Catholics

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When Hugo Chavez made the sign of the cross after calling President Bush the devel, I was embarassed. The actions of this man are not consistant with Catholic teachings. Some people may see him as an example of the Catholic faith. Too bad.
 
Hopefully most people understand that calling himself a Catholic doesn’t mean Chavez is one.
 
mo3 said:
When Hugo Chavez made the sign of the cross after calling President Bush the devel, I was embarassed. The actions of this man are not consistant with Catholic teachings. Some people may see him as an example of the Catholic faith. Too bad.
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Yeah, I noticed it, too, and I cringed.

I haven’t heard any reactions or accusations, though, so most people either ignored it, or realize he’s a nutcase who doesn’t represent the faith.

Anyway, I think I read that there is some tension between Chavez and the Catholic Church in Venezuela. Perhaps we’ll be hearing more about it in the future.
 
Ok, I found an example. Here we go:

news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4615776.stm

Chavez angry over cardinal claim

By Greg Morsbach
BBC News, Caracas
Venezuela’s leader has demanded an explanation after a Roman Catholic cardinal said that the country was becoming a dictatorship.

President Hugo Chavez described the Church’s behaviour as “undoubtedly a provocation” and demanded a full apology for the “insults” and “hate”.

**He said there was a conspiracy in Rome and at home to damage his government. **
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From what I have read, Chavez seems to have nearly as many objections to the Catholic Church as he does to George Bush. The Catholic Church in Venezuela and Chavez have been in opposition on a number of issues.

Chavez is really just an old line Marxist in the mold of Fidel Castro. He’s looking for a dictatorship of the proletariat but will settle for a dictatorship of Hugo. Now he’s pushing Noam Chomsky’s books! Chomsky is an old line 1960’s socialist who supported and defended Pol Pot while a million Cambodians died.
 
I think most people who have been watching this guy in the news recently, have seen who he’s been buddying up to, Cuba, Iran…not the good guys of the world. For sure they’re not the Catholic friendly countries, nor the Christian (of any variety) friendly countries. Making the sign of the cross made everybody lose their lunch, I’m pretty sure.:rolleyes:

Then again, let’s face it, I think the Godfather movies did more damage to the reputation of Catholicism than Chavez will ever do.😦 I wasn’t a Catholic back then, and it affected the way I perceived the Church. It’s just the way it is, I guess. Most perceptions are not always well informed.

But Chavez, I think that’s a pretty easy one.
 
I, too, cringed when he made the sign of the cross. Steve Cobert had the best line I heard, refering to Chavez’s remark about the smell of sulfur around the U.N. podium.

“He who smelt it, dealt it.”
 
pnewton said:
I, too, cringed when he made the sign of the cross. Steve Cobert had the best line I heard, refering to Chavez’s remark about the smell of sulfur around the U.N. podium.

“He who smelt it, dealt it.”
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:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

LOL
 
WanderAimlessly said:
From Wickapedia on Noam Chomsky: Link
I looked up the definitions. Sounds like hard core socialism taken to the extreme.

PF
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Exactly, like the USSR and China. What a tribute to the human spirit those places were. Regular humanist utopias. Why wouldn’t anyone want to live is a veritable paradise like the People’s Republic of China?
 
Scott_Lafrance said:
Exactly, like the USSR and China. What a tribute to the human spirit those places were. Regular humanist utopias. Why wouldn’t anyone want to live is a veritable paradise like the People’s Republic of China?
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Except in those cases, there is complete state control. Libertarian socialist advocate no state control.

PF
 
WanderAimlessly said:
From Wickapedia on Noam Chomsky:
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I thought Wikipedia was frowned upon for use in these forums? 🙂
I looked up the definitions. Sounds like hard core socialism taken to the extreme.
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Depends on your definition. It’s no more useful a term than ‘conservative’ in trying to pin down something approximating to a position. As I’ve said before, socialism is one of those words, like liberalism, that has far too many meanings.

Mike
 
Scott_Lafrance said:
Why wouldn’t anyone want to live in a veritable paradise like the People’s Republic of China?
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You seem to be a bit out of date. China can be a great place to live if you are at least middle class. My niece lived in Shanghai for a number of years in connection with setting up a trade relationship with some clothing manufacturers, and the people she dealt with were very comfortable with their lives there.

For some, it is a veritable paradise.
 
Richardols said:
You seem to be a bit out of date. China can be a great place to live if you are at least middle class. My niece lived in Shanghai for a number of years in connection with setting up a trade relationship with some clothing manufacturers, and the people she dealt with were very comfortable with their lives there.

For some, it is a veritable paradise.
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Two things…first, you indicated it was a great place to live IF you are at least middle class. Rural communities are increasingly impoverished and the gap between rich and poor is growing at astronomic rates. Protests from individuals from agrarian communities are supressed. There is tremendous upheaval and unrest outside the urban areas.

Second, sure you can be comfortable UNLESS you happen to disagree publicly with government policy on virtually any subject. Then you can enjoy the veritable paradise of living indefinitely in a Chinese prison cell with no due process.

God Bless you!
 
byHisGrace said:
Two things…first, you indicated it was a great place to live IF you are at least middle class. Rural communities are increasingly impoverished and the gap between rich and poor is growing at astronomic rates.
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The rural poor in the United States are pretty bad off vis-a-vis the middle class and the wealthy as well. When you’re poor, it doesn’t make any difference what country you live in. A farm worker in South Texas can be as bad off as a peasant in South China.
Second, sure you can be comfortable UNLESS you happen to disagree publicly with government policy on virtually any subject.
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The term “paradise” refers to a place of material or spiritual delight. Mr. LaFrance’s term therefore alludes to a place where one can experience delight. So, politics wouldn’t be relevant to his term. We, for example, have free elections and can criticize the government. Who ever referred to the US as a “veritable paradise” with a political meaning? So, comfort IMO is perfectly appropriate.
 
Richardols said:
The rural poor in the United States are pretty bad off vis-a-vis the middle class and the wealthy as well. When you’re poor, it doesn’t make any difference what country you live in. A farm worker in South Texas can be as bad off as a peasant in South China.

The term “paradise” refers to a place of material or spiritual delight. Mr. LaFrance’s term therefore alludes to a place where one can experience delight. So, politics wouldn’t be relevant to his term. We, for example, have free elections and can criticize the government. Who ever referred to the US as a “veritable paradise” with a political meaning? So, comfort IMO is perfectly appropriate.
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Richardols,
There’s poor and then there’s poor. I’ve spent time in China and in the rural south in the US. I strongly disagree with your comment that when “you’re poor it doesn’t make any difference what country you live in.” They’re not even in the same league. The poor in the US at least have a chance to fight against injustice. The poor in China can either revolt or go to jail. NO comparison at all.

Second, tell me how politics isn’t relevant to material and spiritual delight. Tell me how politics isn’t relative to the persecution of the Catholic church and Catholics in China and isn’t relative to THEIR spiritual delight. Tell me how many of the untold numbers who languish in jail cells for practicing their faith would agree with you that politics isn’t relative to spiritual OR material delight.

God bless you
 
byHisGrace said:
Richardols,
There’s poor and then there’s poor. I’ve spent time in China and in the rural south in the US. I strongly disagree with your comment that when “you’re poor it doesn’t make any difference what country you live in.” They’re not even in the same league. The poor in the US at least have a chance to fight against injustice.
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Yes, the Chinese poor are much poorer than US poor, but they are both the poor relative to their own countries.
Second, tell me how politics isn’t relevant to material and spiritual delight.
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QED. Many Chinese who are prosperous and experience material delight don’t care about politics - which is no different than the atttitude of many prosperous people in the West.
Tell me how politics isn’t relative to the persecution of the Catholic church and Catholics in China and isn’t relative to THEIR spiritual delight.
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Sure, politics are, but material prosperity isn’t. China is not a hotbed of Christianity and never was.
 
Richardols said:
Yes, the Chinese poor are much poorer than US poor, but they are both the poor relative to their own countries.

QED. Many Chinese who are prosperous and experience material delight don’t care about politics - which is no different than the atttitude of many prosperous people in the West.

Sure, politics are, but material prosperity isn’t. China is not a hotbed of Christianity and never was.
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Since you’ve totally missed my point I suggest we let this drop as its a derail of the original thread anyway.

God bless you!
 
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