Hulk Hogan- source of wisdom?

[PetraG]

Rhetorical question: I haven’t heard any kind of call to repentance from any Bishops, or the Vatican. Why not?

You were at a Mass on Ash Wednesday?

If you can find a video of the Pope’s Ubi et Orbi broadcast, I’d highly recommend it. It was extremely moving. This is an excerpt; the Gospel was the story of the Lord calming the tempest:

“Why are you afraid? Have you no faith?” Lord, your word this evening strikes us and regards us, all of us. In this world, that you love more than we do, we have gone ahead at breakneck speed, feeling powerful and able to do anything. Greedy for profit, we let ourselves get caught up in things, and lured away by haste. We did not stop at your reproach to us, we were not shaken awake by wars or injustice across the world, nor did we listen to the cry of the poor or of our ailing planet. We carried on regardless, thinking we would stay healthy in a world that was sick. Now that we are in a stormy sea, we implore you: “Wake up, Lord!”.

“Why are you afraid? Have you no faith?” Lord, you are calling to us, calling us to faith. Which is not so much believing that you exist, but coming to you and trusting in you. This Lent your call reverberates urgently: “Be converted!”, “Return to me with all your heart” ( Joel 2:12). You are calling on us to seize this time of trial as a time of choosing . It is not the time of your judgement, but of our judgement: a time to choose what matters and what passes away, a time to separate what is necessary from what is not. It is a time to get our lives back on track with regard to you, Lord, and to others. We can look to so many exemplary companions for the journey, who, even though fearful, have reacted by giving their lives. This is the force of the Spirit poured out and fashioned in courageous and generous self-denial. It is the life in the Spirit that can redeem, value and demonstrate how our lives are woven together and sustained by ordinary people – often forgotten people – who do not appear in newspaper and magazine headlines nor on the grand catwalks of the latest show, but who without any doubt are in these very days writing the decisive events of our time: doctors, nurses, supermarket employees, cleaners, caregivers, providers of transport, law and order forces, volunteers, priests, religious men and women and so very many others who have understood that no one reaches salvation by themselves. In the face of so much suffering, where the authentic development of our peoples is assessed, we experience the priestly prayer of Jesus: “That they may all be one” ( Jn 17:21)…
http://www.vatican.va/content/franc.../papa-francesco_20200327_omelia-epidemia.html

 

[VonDerTann]

The funny thing is, IMHO, Hulk Hogan is not usually a great source of moral guidance, and yet…

…maybe he’s kinda correct?!?

Look, God moves in mysterious ways. Maybe HH’s tweet gets somebody - the sort who would never otherwise darken the inside of a church – to pray; turn to God; whatever, in a way no sermon from a priest ever could. We just don’t know, and I’m not going to criticize actions like Hogan’s in this instance.

 

[PetraG]

The funny thing is, IMHO, Hulk Hogan is not usually a great source of moral guidance, and yet…

…maybe he’s kinda correct?!?

Look, God moves in mysterious ways. Maybe HH’s tweet gets somebody - the sort who would never otherwise darken the inside of a church – to pray; turn to God; whatever, in a way no sermon from a priest ever could. We just don’t know, and I’m not going to criticize actions like Hogan’s in this instance.

Well, he’s a Christian, so I don’t know why he wouldn’t be able to say something inspirational to other Christians.

That doesn’t make Hulk Hogan a great theologian. The Pope’s take on this rests on better theology…that is, when the tempest comes up, we say, “Lord, don’t you care?” and the Lord says to us, “Oh, you of little faith!” How could we imagine that it is God who does not care and not us?

 

[ricmat]

The Pope’s take on this rests on better theology…that is, when the tempest comes up, we say, “Lord, don’t you care?” and the Lord says to us, “Oh, you of little faith!” How could we imagine that it is God who does not care and not us?

Of course God cares for us, and loves us. Our response to his love should be to love him back. By repenting. By praying. By being thankful. God wants us to ask for, and acknowledge his help, and when we refuse to do so, that offends him. Perhaps not enough of us are doing that, and God’s response is to give us an additional incentive to do so. Some people need a sort of slap on the back of their heads to get their attentions off of earthly things, and more onto His things.

 

[PetraG]

Of course God cares for us, and loves us. Our response to his love should be to love him back. By repenting. By praying. By being thankful. God wants us to ask for, and acknowledge his help, and when we refuse to do so, that offends him. Perhaps not enough of us are doing that, and God’s response is to give us an additional incentive to do so. Some people need a sort of slap on the back of their heads to get their attentions off of earthly things, and more onto His things.

I didn’t want to post the same thing twice, but read the Ubi et Orbi.

Do you remember the story of Lazarus and the Rich Man? There has been no shortage of warnings. not from the Church, not from the bishops, not from just looking around at reality. So while I have no quarrel with Hulk Hogan’s idea that disasters wake us up and that we ought to take them as a wake up, we usually find when we do wake up that we have been sleeping through a lot. Then we run around in circles and flail our hands and cry out to God as if we think that if we haven’t been noticing, then God must not see or not care what our situation is, either. It isn’t quite like that.

I do have a quarrel with:

Maybe we don’t need a vaccine

Yes, we need a vaccine. The need to remember we are going to die someday does not mean that we don’t need physicians to do what physicians do.

Rhetorical question: I haven’t heard any kind of call to repentance from any Bishops, or the Vatican. Why not?

They talk about repentance all of the time. They talk about the devil, they talk about selfishness, they talk about the need for repentance and holiness.

The Pope authorized a plenary indulgence for those who pray for an end to the pandemic, with the usual conditions taking into account that Mass and the sacraments are not immediately available to many of us. He gave an Ubi et Orbi at an extraordinary time… he hasn’t been asleep.

As for the bishops, Archbishop Sample called a special day of prayer and penance to end the pandemic. I’m sure many other bishops did the same. As for calling for repentance, he’s been calling for that all along–it was Lent when the pandemic struck!

 

[CelticWarlord]

Hulk’s okay, but I really want to hear what Mr. T has to say on this matter.

Hulk certainly sounds sincere in all he said, if indeed it was him, but it’s the sort of thing that will be lapped up by the evangelical, tent-meeting, Elmer Gantry-esque snake-handling crowd. I’m willing to offer him a bit of applause for his fearless stance, but I’ll exit by the side door before the dog barking begins in the aisles.

 

[PetraG]

evangelical, tent-meeting, Elmer Gantry-esque snake-handling crowd

That’s a good number of non-identical crowds who wouldn’t necessarily appreciate being lumped together as if the total evidence paints all of them as being a few cards short of a full deck (particularly since the character of Elmer Gantry was a cynical fraud).

In other words, in spite of the undeniable existence of people like the Elmer Gantry character who do use fear-based religious exhortations to enrich themselves, it is really not charitable to be indiscriminate with an accusation like that against those who see this global natural disaster as an actual wake-up call. I’m not saying you meant it that way, but that it could easily be taken that way; I hope you get what I mean.

 

[phil3]

They happen because nature. The earth has never been perfect.

 

[ricmat]

Do you remember the story of Lazarus and the Rich Man? There has been no shortage of warnings. not from the Church, not from the bishops, not from just looking around at reality.

Of course I remember it. I’m a bible study teacher, daily lector, and a host of other things.

In terms of a shortage of warnings from the Church, I HAVEN’T HEARD ANY. Ditto the bishops. Looking around at reality for the warnings, yes, of course, that’s exactly what this pandemic is.

we usually find when we do wake up that we have been sleeping through a lot. Then we run around in circles and flail our hands and cry out to God as if we think that if we haven’t been noticing, then God must not see or not care what our situation is, either. It isn’t quite like that.

I’m not sure I follow your statement above. God loves us so much that he cares a thousand times more for us that we do for ourselves. The best thing for us to do is to obey God, trust in God, pray for God’s help in all things. How many people actually do that? Very very few. Since the pandemic started, I suspect that there are a lot more people praying than there used to be. In my mind that’s a good thing. That is God’s word/will achieving His desired effect.

On the vaccine - I think Hogan’s point is that trusting in prayer is better than trusting in a vaccine development (science only) without prayer. Perhaps God wants us to pray for the pandemic to end, and then leave the details up to him (which could be a vaccine, or something else) The saints have noted that the accomplishment of all things is dependent on prayer. (Or maybe that isn’t what he had in mind, but I think it’s true).

 

[ricmat]

The Pope authorized a plenary indulgence for those who pray for an end to the pandemic, with the usual conditions taking into account that Mass and the sacraments are not immediately available to many of us. He gave an Ubi et Orbi at an extraordinary time… he hasn’t been asleep.

As for the bishops, Archbishop Sample called a special day of prayer and penance to end the pandemic. I’m sure many other bishops did the same. As for calling for repentance, he’s been calling for that all along–it was Lent when the pandemic struck!

Did somebody say (other than you) that the pope was asleep? I think he is working very hard at something…

I’m not attacking your Bishop, I don’t know anything about him. I do know that on our Diocese web site there’s no call for repentance although it might be buried someplace in the fine print.

Have you heard anything from your Bishop since the shutdown? Have you heard anything from your parish priest(s) since the shutdown?

Two points:

1. The entire US Catholic Church is shut down (as is most of the world). No Mass, no Confession, no Eucharist, no weddings, no funerals, no confirmation, no last rites. And no end in sight. Something that Satan could not accomplish previously has just happened. This has NEVER happened before in the history of our country or the world. THIS IS A BIG DEAL. Is repenting because it’s Lent good enough? NO.
2. OK, so number 1 above is a BIG DEAL only to Catholics (and a few others). What about all those “nones” who know nothing about God or Jesus etc. To them the pandemic is still a cause for alarm, as it should be. I’m sure some of them are asking themselves "I wonder if I should pray…and for something other than “healing the earth”)

God wants more of us to love Him. Catholics and non-Catholics. We should all be praying really hard, for love of God.

 

[krayzevuze]

On the vaccine - I think Hogan’s point is that trusting in prayer is better than trusting in a vaccine development (science only) without prayer. Perhaps God wants us to pray for the pandemic to end, and then leave the details up to him (which could be a vaccine, or something else) The saints have noted that the accomplishment of all things is dependent on prayer. (Or maybe that isn’t what he had in mind, but I think it’s true).

amen ! you just reminded me of some great quotes: “Through fasting and prayer, one can stop wars, one can suspend the laws of nature.”

" Faith, only the faith that looks to the Creator and that He inspires, radiates from itself the supreme and decisive truths condemning what is and what is not. Reality is transfigured. "

“For G-d, however, the impossible does not exist. G-d – to speak the language of Kierkegaard, which is that of the Bible – G-d: this means that there is nothing that is impossible.”

This Easter week it is a good way to reflect on this, death is destroyed, the powers that are have been brought down by the powers that aren’t, weakness and humilation destroyed all things strong and prideful, nothing is impossible for our Lord. do Christians believe in the casting out of demons, the moving of mountains, the calming of the storms, and healings? anything can be done, and the key to all of this is prayer. for God nothing is impossible

 

[CelticWarlord]

I hope you get what I mean.

Most definitely. I will admit I specialize in generalizations, plus I come from a Protestant background that would include several of those ‘epithets’.

 

[PetraG]

Of course I remember it. I’m a bible study teacher, daily lector, and a host of other things.

In terms of a shortage of warnings from the Church, I HAVEN’T HEARD ANY. Ditto the bishops. Looking around at reality for the warnings, yes, of course, that’s exactly what this pandemic is.

I am lucky; we have priests and bishops in our diocese who talk about the four last things. They encourage people to go to confession. They talk about repentance when Lent rolls around.

What are they supposed to say? “Do you believe you’re going to face your judgement some day now?”

Since the pandemic started, I suspect that there are a lot more people praying than there used to be. In my mind that’s a good thing. That is God’s word/will achieving His desired effect.

OK, but you don’t really think that this pandemic is not just allowed by God’s permissive will but is rather an example of God bringing some fraction of his children to a sudden and unprovided-for death in order to scare everybody else straight! I don’t buy that, and I hope you don’t. That sounds like the Tower of Siloam hypothesis: you know, it is OK that “God struck them down” because they deserved it.

The story of Lazarus and the rich man implies that God isn’t going to send people a bunch of special signs to get them to repent when they have been told about the need to repent. Why would we not believe that story? Bad things are going to happen, thinking about them is an opportunity for re-thinking our lives, certainly, but God does not actively bring bad things on other people in order to wake us up. Those other people who died of coronavirus without warning weren’t worse than we are. They weren’t made into an object lesson to make us wake up. We ought to know that bad things happen and be ready for death to come without warning, but God does not take out other people in order to remind us of that.

On the vaccine - I think Hogan’s point is that trusting in prayer is better than trusting in a vaccine development (science only) without prayer.

Did he say “we need more than a vaccine”? I think he said something like “maybe we don’t need a vaccine.” Well, yes, we do need a vaccine.

 

[PetraG]

Most definitely. I will admit I specialize in generalizations, plus I come from a Protestant background that would include several of those ‘epithets’.

I can understand that. I only meant that we have to be careful in our aim: towards the behavior, not a group of persons. For instance, “it’s the sort of thing that will be lapped up by anyone looking to use fear to manipulate other members of the faithful or people who inexplicably like to think about Divine Retribution letting loose on somebody else…”

 

[PetraG]

Is repenting because it’s Lent good enough? NO.

Why not? ‘If they will not listen to Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded if someone should rise from the dead.’ (Lk 16:31) We have been told to repent, we have been taught why, and yes, God will be just if that is deemed to be good enough. The bishops do not have some duty to tell us God is trying to scare us straight every time some horrible deadly force of nature comes through.

What about all those “nones” who know nothing about God or Jesus etc. To them…

It says a lot about God and Jesus that his followers care enough about preserving lives that they will make great sacrifices like staying home even from worship because for the time being that is the only weapon that we have to fight a pandemic.

Those who are insisting that they have to go to church because they don’t fear death are not getting a good reception, because other people on the outside look in and say, “Oh, so that’s so important to you that you’ll risk my life to do it? That’s the love of your neighbor that you brag about so much? Really? Color me un-impressed…”

This is a natural disaster, one that may even have been brought on by humans taking wild animals to a public food market. I’d hope it makes us consider whether we’re doing a good job in our stewardship of the earth, the animals, our food sources and the natural world. That is a serious responsibility given to humankind by Providence. Of course when we unwittingly unleash a pandemic, we ought to do some self-examination about that. We may find that we could not realistically have prevented it, but we may find that we could have.

 

[phil3]

On the vaccine - I think Hogan’s point is that trusting in prayer is better than trusting in a vaccine development (science only) without prayer. Perhaps God wants us to pray for the pandemic to end, and then leave the details up to him (which could be a vaccine, or something else) T

What? I’ll trust a vaccine over prayer any day of the week

 

[ricmat]

You’re so far off here, I don’t know where to start. You obviously have some strong opinions and want to insert them into the conversation even if they don’t fit the context. Also, I know from my own experience in trying to be a mind reader that it doesn’t usually work. It seems you have more confidence in that talent than I have.

In my view, this pandemic has been either allowed by God, or caused by God to give ALL of us (Catholics, and everybody else, not just those with good Bishops) a wake up call. Collectively (and not speaking of any particular person), across the world, we have been pushing God out of our lives because we want to do what we want to do, instead of what he wants us to do.

When God gives us gifts (the Church & sacraments as one example) and we either don’t use them or we use them improperly, it is not surprising that God takes them away from us.

Does God chastise us out of love? Yes.

Does God give us trials, tribulations, tests for our own good? Yes.

I want everybody to notice that without God, we are nothing and we have nothing. Because with that realization, we will at least start to think about God, seek a path to Heaven, seek ways to know Him, appreciate Him, worship Him, love him.

Society continues to spiral downward and we continue to ignore the special messages God has already given us - Fatima, Akita, etc. 3000 abortions per day and now recent calls to be sure they are categorized as essential services so far as the pandemic is concerned.

Is this our last warning? Nobody knows for sure. But I fear that those (especially outside the Church) who persist in a “nothing new to see here” attitude may find themselves in a not-very-good position.

God is saying “WAKE UP” to the world. And most of us are still asleep.

 

[PetraG]

I want everybody to notice that without God, we are nothing and we have nothing.

Has anyone here said differently?

Does God chastise us out of love? Yes.

Does God give us trials, tribulations, tests for our own good? Yes.

Let’s be really clear: I am only saying that the illness God gives to someone else is not something God does to give a warning to us. Our need to stay at home to keep someone else safe is a drop in the bucket compared to the tribulation felt by those who are dying in hospitals of an illness that feels like drowning. Those people are not being made sick or given a sudden death so that we can wake up and learn to pray!!

Should someone else’s tribulation be a reason that we remember our own mortality? Of course it should! What I am saying is that we shouldn’t take someone else’s trial as something God did to warn us any more than we’d take it as evidence that those people had it coming (which I would hope no one here has ever even suggested is the case).

That’s why I take such issue with things like “maybe we don’t need a vaccine.” That’s easy for someone to say only if he doesn’t work in health care. I appreciate his desire that we get something greater from this than advances in public health and I can agree that advances in spiritual well-being are infinitely more important, because they are eternal gains, but if healing and not entertaining were Hulk Hogan’s profession, he would never have worded his reflection in such a way as that.

Is this our last warning? Nobody knows for sure

I am only talking about what Our Lord said in Matthew 24.

 

[bluerose]

I don’t know how long ago you read that, but that meme has been pinging around on social media since March 21, so I don’t think Hulk Hogan was the author of it. No one who has posted it has credited it to him.

 

[ricmat]

ricmat:

I want everybody to notice that without God, we are nothing and we have nothing.

Has anyone here said differently?

My last post was an attempt to explain my thoughts, not repeat anyone elses “thoughts.”

Let’s be really clear: I am only saying that the illness God gives to someone else is not something God does to give a warning to us . Our need to stay at home to keep someone else safe is a drop in the bucket compared to the tribulation felt by those who are dying in hospitals of an illness that feels like drowning. Those people are not being made sick or given a sudden death so that we can wake up and learn to pray!!

I don’t know why you bring up staying at home vs. keeping others safe…

I disagree with your statement above.

If we have compassion for others (even if we are non-christians) we have an inner desire to pray which is triggered by their misery. For whatever reason, God either caused or allowed this pandemic to take place, and people will die because of it. I can see how this may be God’s way of leading more people to Heaven (starting with compassionate prayer). Like the blind man’s purpose in the Gospels, perhaps some of us are sick/dying, the purpose being an instrument of God to lead others to Heaven. [I didn’t explain this well…sorry].

Should someone else’s tribulation be a reason that we remember our own mortality? Of course it should! What I am saying is that we shouldn’t take someone else’s trial as something God did to warn us any more than we’d take it as evidence that those people had it coming (which I would hope no one here has ever even suggested is the case).

Nobody (except you) seems to have the idea that others have this notion of “had it coming.” That would bother me too, if it was true.

That’s why I take such issue with things like “maybe we don’t need a vaccine.”

I think I explained this earlier. Without prayer first, there might never be a vaccine. If everybody in the world was praying fervently for a cure, would we need a vaccine? All solutions inevitably start with God. Sometimes he uses man-made vaccines to cure us, sometimes he does it in ways we don’t understand. Should we use our God-given intelligence and talents to try to create a vaccine - of course!

I don’t personally want to criticize Hulks wording in his “reflection” since I’m terrible myself in wording things sometimes. It seems that you are not very tolerant of “entertainers” expressing their thoughts. I am personally happy that this “entertainer” is sharing what insight he has even though he does not have a PhD in theology or medicine. Great insights often come from unexpected sources.