Human rights for apes?

[vern_humphrey]

I mentioned in my above post that the higher animals deserve protections. I’m not an extremist, by any means. Of course it’s silly to protect ameobias

It’s silly to talk about rights for animals, period. Our obligations to treat them well and to preserve species are found in our stewardship role, not something inherent in the chimp or amoeba.

 

[JLSacred]

It’s silly to talk about rights for animals, period. Our obligations to treat them well and to preserve species are found in our stewardship role, not something inherent in the chimp or amoeba.

I don’t think it’s silly. I think it’s a valid topic for discussion. I have an acquaintance who works with a chimp project, and she’s very passionate about her work. I think if you interact with a higher animal such as this you get another point of view.

 

[vern_humphrey]

I don’t think it’s silly. I think it’s a valid topic for discussion. I have an acquaintance who works with a chimp project, and she’s very passionate about her work. I think if you interact with a higher animal such as this you get another point of view.

Let me see, I raise and train horses and donkeys, I have owned and trained a monkey. Is that high enough?

I repeat: If animals have rights, we get into silly arguments about what rights which animals have – does a butterfly have the same rights as a bullfrog? Do mosquitoes have a right to life? What about amoebas? Is it murder to cure a human of amoebic dysentery?

 

[JLSacred]

So, why are you posting on this thread, Vern? If it’s so silly, don’t waste your time. Why keep coming here and say people are silly to discuss it.

The issue is an issue of the day, and the poll and discussion aren’t silly, in my opinion. It’s a perfectly valid question. Most people agree, animals aren’t human. But alot of people want protections enacted for them. What’s so silly about that?

 

[Vanny]

No, they should not.

There actually IS a trend, primarily in Europe (for the moment) to grant apes human rights. This is actually part of a larger campaign which denies that humans are better than animals, and which also denies that humans are in any way unique in God’s creation.

The people pushing this agenda would have us believe that humans are animals, an accident of evolution and not a work of the Creator. In fact, in their view there is no God.

They deny God because then there are no such pesky things as moral laws to limit our desires and restrict our “freedom.”

And they will tell you that there is no such thing as “human dignity” endowed to us by God merely because we are human. Their “human dignity” is endowed by the State based on who you are and what you can do (for the state - or for them). If you are less than they, then you must sacrifice for them - up to and including your life. If you are less than they, you become a “useless eater”, as the Nazis called them.

Beware this group and others like them.

Very well said-excellent post.
I was going to point out something simular but you beat me to it.

 

[vern_humphrey]

So, why are you posting on this thread, Vern? If it’s so silly, don’t waste your time. Why keep coming here and say people are silly to discuss it.

So what is it you say I don’t have a right to do? To post in a Catholic thread, or to have an opinion?

The issue is an issue of the day, and the poll and discussion aren’t silly, in my opinion.

So you get to have opinions, but I don’t?

It’s a perfectly valid question. Most people agree, animals aren’t human. But alot of people want protections enacted for them. What’s so silly about that?

What’s silly is saying animals have “rights.”

I repeat: If animals have rights, we get into silly arguments about what rights which animals have – does a butterfly have the same rights as a bullfrog? Do mosquitoes have a right to life? What about amoebas? Is it murder to cure a human of amoebic dysentery?

I dare you to answer these questions and justify your answers.

 

[Vanny]

Don’t forget also that Man(humans) were given dominion over the earth and the animals. I believe in treating in animals humanely,of course,but the bible clearly tells us that we have dominion over the earth and animal life, and Jesus told us wea re worth more than the sparrows.
Genesis 1:26-28
Matthew 6:26

 

[vern_humphrey]

Don’t forget also that Man(humans) were given dominion over the earth and the animals. I believe in treating in animals humanely,of course,but the bible clearly tells us that we have dominion over the earth and animal life, and Jesus told us wea re worth more than the sparrows.
Genesis 1:26-28
Matthew 6:26

And that is the answer. We have obligations to protect animals and species, treat them humanely, and so on because we are stewarts of the earth, not because they have “rights.”

 

[Michael038]

i voted no because an ape isnt a human.

however, an ape is a creature of God and should be treated with respect as all his creatures.

 

[ricmat]

I already voted no, but something occurred to me:

If

1. 
   *]We justify Apes having human rights based on “they’re only a bit different than humans” and
   *]Couple that with the theory of evolution (gradual changes from one species to the next), then
   *]The next argument is “Well, apes aren’t all that different than pigs.” etc. etc. etc.
   
   So eventually you conclude that every living thing deserves “human” rights.
   
   Which goes back to the main purpose of their agenda: To make man no better than the rest of creation, and not unique in any way. i.e. to deny God.

 

[MikeWM]

Which goes back to the main purpose of their agenda: To make man no better than the rest of creation, and not unique in any way. i.e. to deny God.

Then they are being silly, because no such action can prove such a thing either way, and I seriously doubt whether an ape has a legal right or not will affect people’s deep-felt belief or otherwise in God.

Of course, I don’t deny there may be some with obscure larger purposes. But you’ll find that some people - in my opinion, the vast majority - just feel sorry for the animals and want them to be protected.

Mike

 

[ricmat]

Then they are being silly, because no such action can prove such a thing either way, and I seriously doubt whether an ape has a legal right or not will affect people’s deep-felt belief or otherwise in God.

Of course, I don’t deny there may be some with obscure larger purposes. But you’ll find that some people - in my opinion, the vast majority - just feel sorry for the animals and want them to be protected.

Mike

Their agenda is not actually to prove to others that God doesn’t exist.

Their agend is to prove to themselves that God doesn’t exist.

 

[Gabriel_Gale]

I think that ricmat is right.

There is a movement to give the Great Apes basic human rights which would be consistent with a 2 year old.

The attack is on the idea of Human Exceptionalism. Their argument is that if you believe that humans are exceptional then you are a “speciest.” Read the stuff from our old friend Peter Singer. This form of radical egalitarianism equates speciism with racism.

The ultimate danger of the monkey rights movement is that it makes basic human rights conditional and hence no longer basic.

 

[Larry1700]

Has anyone else picked up on the irony of discussing if apes should be given human rights – in a society where even unborn humans aren’t given the most basic of human rights?

Boy, ain’t **that **the truth! Excellent point indeed, vernhumphrey!:clapping: :bowdown: :yup: :bowdown: :clapping: :yup:

 

[davy39]

You have a point in your semantics. I stand by my opinion though. I’d like to see more laws protecting animals, whether you call it animal rights or human obligations, I think we need to take better care of our furry friends.

Are you an anti-hunter by any chance?

 

[water]

Well, I hope Apes will have human rights so that I can ask them not to vote for Clinton as president.

 

[thechrismyster]

if an ape wants equal rights… let him ask for it.

 

[vern_humphrey]

Then they are being silly, because no such action can prove such a thing either way, and I seriously doubt whether an ape has a legal right or not will affect people’s deep-felt belief or otherwise in God.

And yet a similar action – a legal ruling – has convinced people that an unborn human is not really human.

Look how many people claiming to be Catholics will defend abortion, even on these forums.

Of course, I don’t deny there may be some with obscure larger purposes. But you’ll find that some people - in my opinion, the vast majority - just feel sorry for the animals and want them to be protected.

Mike

Yes – people feeling sorry for animals have committed many sins against those animals. Here in the US, for example, we have a crisis in horses – too many old, sick horses which should have gone to the knackers long ago, but someone decided knackers should be outlawed.

Native desert sheep and other wildlife are being out-competed by introduced species – horses and donkeys – because someone decided the horses and donkeys needed protection.

 

[Al_Masetti]

Slogan seen on a “T”-shirt:

Be a Hero, Save a Whale.

Save a Baby, Go to Jail.

 

[vern_humphrey]

Slogan seen on a “T”-shirt:

Be a Hero, Save a Whale.

Save a Baby, Go to Jail.

I repeat – am I the only one who sees the irony of debating extending human rights to apes in a society that does not extend human rights to real humans?