Humans and Stardust

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Freddy said:
The gases were formed from processes started with the big bang. The big bang was…oh, what the heck. There’s only a few days left. Why am I replying to this?
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“In the beginning there was nothing and darkness was on the face of the deep… and God said let there be light!” Gen 1:1

Haha there You go. Finished it for you Fred. Lol.
 
This post is sad. All the scolding of a Fundamentalist. I should feel, “ashamed.” Bah, The post amounts to, “you are no better than me.” Jante’s Law, “you are not special.” For the record I believe all human life is, “Special,” more Special than the Universe or the Environment it is in.

Well, I put no effort in my argument, and again I don’t think this is such a big issue for discussion. It doesn’t challenge my Faith, nor is it of interest to me.

@Freddy No one has waisted their time on this thread more than any other time wasted on threads. I’m not certain why you think anyone would come up with any theory on a message board or why anyone would put in that effort.

My perspective comes from Religion, it worked for Newton and Leibnitz. But there is nothing more to write. I’m not certain why my statements would be so controversial. The fact that people hold onto their Science like a Dogma and feel Religious Zeal for it is more telling of them than Science. But, I must Conform, how dare I not Conform, OH, I MUST FEEL SPECIAL…who am I to have such confidence and feel special…how dare I…“you are no better than me and I’m insignificant, the State tells me so”…Even without religion the irreligious are Fundamentalist and Authoritarian.
 
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RepetantCatholic said:
For the record I believe all human life is, “Special,” more Special than the Universe or the Environment it is in.
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And you would be totally right!!

No, you should definitely not feel ashamed. I bet there’s more than enough positions on which I am wrong and you’d be right to correct me.

Please understand that my second post applies to everyone - including me! I don’t believe in a class of infallible superhuman philosophers who look down on the poor idiots beneath them. We all are sometimes right and sometimes wrong. We all want to feel special.

However, we aren’t special because of the material of our physical bodies, but because of our immortal soul, and our very special and privileged relationship with God.

Forgive me for the unpleasant tone. I am just generally tired of the disdain people have for authorities. You see it all the time these days - people who cannot even describe how vaccines work now tell pharmaceutical experts on how vaccines will harm them. I believe scientists are more qualified than me to talk about the nature of the physical world.
 
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RepetantCatholic said:
not certain why you think anyone would come up with any theory on a message board or why anyone would put in that effort.
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Because someone who values scientific inquiry generally expects others to debate from that standpoint. An explanation is only as bad as its replacement is good. When Galileo proposed the heliocentric model, and it didn’t match observation, it was immediately thrown out even though the geocentric model that came before was super complex. Geocentrism was just more accurate at making predictions and explaining things. So you can ramble about how we aren’t the result of star death and how our world isn’t the result of heavy element fusion in stars, but without a new theory, your words mean nothing.
RepetantCatholic said:
The fact that people hold onto their Science like a Dogma and feel Religious Zeal for it
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I do not hold a religious zeal for science. You seem to think of “science” as a religion yourself, and not a method of discovery. Einstein’s Theory of Relativity is not science, it’s fact discovered through science. The stellar formation of heavy elements is the same. I hold a religious zeal for Truth, however it is discovered. If revealed by the Divine or by scientific study, I do not care. All I care about is if it stacks up to what we see.
RepetantCatholic said:
doesn’t challenge my Faith, nor is it of interest to me.
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Then perhaps just trust the people that know what they’re talking about.
 
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@BohemianBrother and you: Projection.

You’re disagreeing with someone else from what I see. I mentioned the Scientific Method, even the mechanics of it, and you echo it back to me.

Well, it is Monday. The weekend was great. Mass was particularly beautiful. Everyone have a blessed week!
 
BohemianBrother said:
And you would be totally right!!

No, you should definitely not feel ashamed. I bet there’s more than enough positions on which I am wrong and you’d be right to correct me.
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Well, I don’t feel ashamed…and I’m not wrong on this issue. . . .
 
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RepetantCatholic said:
This post is sad. All the scolding of a Fundamentalist. I should feel, “ashamed.” Bah, The post amounts to, “you are no better than me.” Jante’s Law, “you are not special.” For the record I believe all human life is, “Special,” more Special than the Universe or the Environment it is in.

Well, I put no effort in my argument, and again I don’t think this is such a big issue for discussion. It doesn’t challenge my Faith, nor is it of interest to me.

@Freddy No one has waisted their time on this thread more than any other time wasted on threads. I’m not certain why you think anyone would come up with any theory on a message board or why anyone would put in that effort.

My perspective comes from Religion, it worked for Newton and Leibnitz. But there is nothing more to write. I’m not certain why my statements would be so controversial. The fact that people hold onto their Science like a Dogma and feel Religious Zeal for it is more telling of them than Science. But, I must Conform, how dare I not Conform…
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Abject nonsense. Are you ‘conforming’ when you learn chemistry or biology? Are quadratic equations ‘dogma’? Do people have a ‘zeal’ for the periodic table?

Your statements aren’t in any way controversial because you haven’t made any. You’ve been given some basic physics and it apparently contradicts your beliefs. And I say ‘apparently’ because you won’t admit to what you believe. And heaven knows why. You wouldn’t be the first to believe in creation as per Genesis and you’re not going to be the last.

But it seems you are determined to joint the small group of people on this forum who would prefer not to admit it. And so rather than put forward your interpretation of existence, you are reduced to attempt to ridicule the science which contradicts it.
 
neophyte said:
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Freddy:
It’s not really possible to reject a theory unless you have a better one.
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That is complete nonsense.
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All valid theories work. Because they explain the available evidence. If they don’t then they’re not valid theories and you’ve nothing to reject. If it is a valid theory then the only thing you can do is improve it’s accuracy in some way or reject it and offer a completely different one.
 
FiveLinden said:
Almost everything in the world that we can observe contradicts something in Genesis if you read it as literal history. The Catholic view is far more nuanced and cannot be simply refuted like the literalist view. (I’m not a believer)
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I agree with you about half the time, we’ve had our arguments. But this is one of the greatest statements I’ve ever heard you make. Bravo.
 
Glad we agree! The only weakness I see in the Catholic position is that the Church has yet to reverse the claim of Pius XII’s encyclical Humani Generis that all humans descend from Adam (and Eve, I guess he meant) and from no other humans not in his/their lineage. I can’t see any way this can be aligned with modern science.

I have seen a few people attempt this but the mental acrobatics required don’t impress.

The literalist view on the other hand simply doesn’t work at all at it baffles me how people can hold to it. I also think Genisis is great literature and its (at least two) writers deserve respect for their literary creation. The truth I see in it is about the human instinct to explain our experiences in the world both of pain and of joy and of wonder.
 
Freddy said:
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Hope1960:
Scientists say humans are made from stardust. This contradicts Genesis. Can Catholics believe we’re made of stardust?

Also does anyone have names of reputable scientists who say this is bunk?
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Genesis says we’re made from earth. The earth was made from elements that were formed in stars. The stars were made by condensing gases. The gases were formed from processes started with the big bang. The big bang was…oh, what the heck. There’s only a few days left. Why am I replying to this?
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Go on,and the Big Bang came from ? 😅
 
Greenfields said:
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Freddy:
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Hope1960:
Scientists say humans are made from stardust. This contradicts Genesis. Can Catholics believe we’re made of stardust?

Also does anyone have names of reputable scientists who say this is bunk?
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Genesis says we’re made from earth. The earth was made from elements that were formed in stars. The stars were made by condensing gases. The gases were formed from processes started with the big bang. The big bang was…oh, what the heck. There’s only a few days left. Why am I replying to this?
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Go on,and the Big Bang came from ? 😅
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We don’t know. We can’t investigate back that far. In the original post I was going to say: The big bang was…the start of those processes.

Edit: which I actually did already.
 
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