Humility and Insecurity

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I see. Well I agree that in the end, we are all ultimately equal. However, this brings to mind another question.

What if instead of the overall picture, we simply seek to compare one aspect of ourselves?

For instance, suppose I’m a swordsman and I am renowned by my mastery of the blade. I am feared throughout the land and have met very few that I’ve considered equal. On the other hand, my sister’s a famous poet whose songs and sonnets have confounded and enthralled all manner of audiences.

Now if we were to compare with each other in one aspect such as swordplay, I would of course be superior. On the other hand, in another aspect, such as poetry I would lose miserably to my sister. However, that doesn’t make me any less of a skilled swordsman.

Would it be wrong then to take pride in that which you can do while humbly acknowledging that which you can’t?

It just seems I’ve run into a lot of people (both religious and non) who say I’m being arrogant even though I have proven myself in my right to boast. That humility means making yourself a doormat for them (especially the non-religious ones).
Pursuit of excellence and a sense of accomplishment are good things. But if we base our whole worth on it, that is vanity, and ultimately empty.

God resists arrogance. Scripture says God hates “haughty eyes”, and that He “opposes the proud and exalts the humble”. He, Himself, is actually revealed to be humble in Jesus. And to some, Jesus is the ultimate doormat. For us, He’s the ultimate hero.
 
If they didn’t care about their own happiness, they wouldn’t be down. What is being down but being unhappy?
I believe you really cannot grasp my example. I am talking about people who are too lost in hopelessness, people too consumed by despair to do anything about themselves. You seem to think just because a person wants to be happy, he will go from being down to peppy? Sorry, but the real world says otherwise.
The very act of considering yourself a mistake is to belittle God’s work. Does God make mistakes? If you believe you were made by God, how can you also believe you were a mistake at the same time? If you don’t believe you were made by God, then how did you get here? The very act of considering yourself a mistake when the scriptures say otherwise is testiment to the lack of faith which is really the only thing God is looking for. Even loving your neighbor must be done in faith.

Please understand, I’m not trying to accuse you of anything, or put you down, but if you don’t believe the scriptures are true, then why are you a Christian? If you can’t believe that ‘you’re fearfully and wonderfully made’ then why should you believe ‘For God so loved the world that He gave his only begotten Son?’
Again, one does not need to accuse God of error when there are in fact alternative causes of imperfection. I stated already an example didn’t I? Our fallen nature. We didn’t have those when we were originally created. We may have been wonderfully made at first but thanks to Original Sin, we’re not anymore.

The same can be said even now. You may think others have been wonderfully made but somewhere along their lives (whether it be by their own fault or worse, someone else or worse still, bad circumstances) they broke. Now they’re nothing but struggling defects whose every attempt at redemption just adds more to their list of glaring flaws (well, “glaring” according to those who like using those flaws as footstools for their own ego).
 
LW,

Your posts always intrigue me; hang in there, the light is (or so I’m told)…

For a few years I was one of the brooding undead. A major thing that pulled me out was the realization that I was right. Yes, pride saved me from acedia and despair, cruel irony. I struggled trying to reach toward the virtue of humility and nearly drove myself mad in the process. I came to realize that what most of the saints advocate as humility is precisely a lie, a falsehood.

It is justified to take pride in accomplishments, particularly if that does not cloud the Source of the gifts or our weakness in other areas. To deny our talents would be like the servant who buried the one talent in Scripture.

Jesness{/B] I have a good guess why you are not getting through (well several reasons actually). The large part is that the self-loathing temperament in male is generally different than it is in females (guessing, but doubt I’m wrong) 😉 The denial of the sense of accomplishment has a larger effect it seems on men, in part because they are supposed to be proving themselves to, well, everyone: themselves, their “tribe” (to determine standing), their enemies (to better protect their family), and to the ladies (for obvious reasons). quashing this drive, particularly when it may be a struggle to fulfill is insanity, not holiness. Holiness is taming it, controlling it.
 
I have to say, that while a depressing topic, it does strike a chord with me.

One thing that I’ve begun to ask people is if God presented them with a choice of either mercy or justice, which one do they choose.

I’m at the point where I answer mercy for everyone else save one.

Strangely enough I had toyed around with the idea of expressing this as a story or fiction.

But as to self-loathing and calling God a liar, this is not logical. God, the creator of all things does not create imperfection. Imperfection is caused by a person’s choices, thus having become defective of his or her own free will. Self-loathing may be induced not necessarily from a single event, but of a repeating factor that begins to erode a person’t self-esteem to the point of splitting themselves in two entities, one “good”, and the other “bad”. To regain that purity, the good side will attempt to purge the bad side and thus remove the defect.

Guess what happens when the defective part won’t die. It feeds and plays upon the hatred of impurity thus becoming almost an obsession. In order to destroy sin or an impurity, the source must be destroyed, otherwise it’s like cutting heads of a hydra. Kill one and two grow back.
 
I believe you really cannot grasp my example. I am talking about people who are too lost in hopelessness, people too consumed by despair to do anything about themselves. You seem to think just because a person wants to be happy, he will go from being down to peppy? Sorry, but the real world says otherwise.
If they are really so down that they cannot help themselves they might need some psychological help and perhaps even medication. :\
 
Hi Lost Wanderer 🙂

I guess the best way that I could think of to have humility and love, even (actually, especially) if you are insecure and hate yourself, is to focus solely on the truth of God’s love for us, because it will put into perspective everything else. As St. John said: “We love, because God first loved us” (1 John 4:19).

How much does God love us? To answer this, most of us would think of John 3:16 (“For God so loved the world…”), but an even more clear way of knowing this is by what Jesus Himself said of His love for us: “As the Father has loved me, so have I loved you" (John 15:9). Think about that for a moment, and let that sink in. Remember that God the Father loves God the Son so much, and vice versa, that this Love is another Person of the Holy Trinity: the Holy Spirit. This Love is totally self giving, for He gives Himself totally to us and left nothing out.

Now, if God loves us, then we must respond in kind: we must love God with all our heart and with all our soul and with all our mind and with all our strength (Mark 12:30). That is, we leave out nothing to Him.

So that is our response to God’s love to Him, but what about to ourselves? We are His, and He is ours. Therefore, we must love our own selves, because God loves us. How can we hate our own selves when it is our own selves that God loves with so much intensity and self giving? And so, what is the best way to love ourselves?

The best way to love ourselves is to hate ourselves.

😛 That may have confused you much, but let me first point something. The opposite of hate is not love, and love is not the opposite of hate. In fact, they are the opposite sides of the same coin. Yes, you heard that right. You cannot love without hating, and you cannot hate without loving. One cannot exist without the other. This is because to love is to polarize your whole being towards a perceived good, and therefore you are also polarized against a perceived evil. If you love someone, then you hate what will harm your beloved, right? Even in those who have a disease-like hate for something, including themselves (eg. those with inferiority complexes or severe insecurity) they love something. Indeed, the greater the hate, the greater the love. And what they love is themselves.

Well, I probably have messed you up, so let me try to clear up things with two analogies.

Suppose you are given a garden, and you fell in love with this garden at first sight because you can see its beauty and how much it can be made more beautiful . You just HAVE to let your spouse see and enjoy it! And yet, this garden has not been tended for years, and so weeds have overrun it, and its fence is in a sorry state, all the benches are broken, the central fountain is full of filthy water with mold and wrigglers…you get the idea. And UGH! you hate how it is right now! So you cut away the weeds, through away the broken things, repair and repaint the fence, clean and fix the fountain, etc.

Another analogy: It is the stuff of teenage fantasies: You are in high school, and your crush the cheerleader has just confessed that she likes you…a lot. OH MY GOSH!!! You? You wear thick glasses, braces, scrawny body and messy clothes, likes to hang out in the library or with your friends playing D&D…YOU?! Well, after determining the sincerity of the girl you began going out with her, and from her you learn that she hates your messy clothes and your smoking and your oggling other girls…so you hate them too. You hate them so much in fact that you throw away your smokes, you begged your parents to buy you new clothes, and you deliberately look away anytime you see a cute girl. You also learn from her that what she likes about you are your eyes—she saw them when your previous pair of glasses fell down and broke—your braces, and your laugh. So now you wear contact lenses, and you brush your teeth every two hours so you can smile and laugh a lot.

continued below…
 
In the first analogy, you love the garden, but also hate it. That is, you love the garden’s beauty, but you hate how the garden is right now. In the second analogy, you learned to hate what your beloved hates about you, and learned to love what she loves about you. This is just like how a healthy Christian loves himself. He loves himself because he loves God and is loved by God, but he hates himself because of the many ways he is so ugly, and can still become more ugly, before his Beloved, and therefore with God’s help he removes and avoids what makes him ugly before God: sin. The Christian hates what makes him susceptible to sin, his concupiscence because of original sin’s effect on all men. He also does good, prays a lot, and develops his faith, hope, and charity, even if he does not want to do them, because those are what God loves. That’s why the saints’ hatred on themselves and their discipline are so alarming: because they love God and themselves so much that they will do anything, even deprive and discipline themselves, to be with Him and be eternally joyful. Read how St. Louis de Montfort sees our condition here on earth:

Our soul, being united to our body, has become so carnal that it has been called flesh. “All flesh had corrupted its way”. Pride and blindness of spirit, hardness of heart, weakness and inconstancy of soul, evil inclinations, rebellious passions, ailments of the body, - these are all we can call our own. By nature we are prouder than peacocks, we cling to the earth more than toads, we are more base than goats, more envious than serpents, greedier than pigs, fiercer than tigers, lazier than tortoises, weaker than reeds, and more changeable than weather-cocks. We have in us nothing but sin, and deserve only the wrath of God and the eternity of hell. (Treatise on True Devotion to the Blessed Virgin)

As Jesus said: “If your right eye causes you to sin, pluck it out and throw it away…and if your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away; it is better that you lose one of your members than that your whole body go into hell” (Matthew 5:29-30).

So how does this compare with the hatred of the insecure and pessimistic? Going back to the analogy of the garden, it is like someone who received the garden but is either too lazy or too afraid of the snakes and other dangers in the garden to make it better. And with the analogy of the teenage romance, it is like a guy who either loves his smokes, his messy clothes, and his oggling of girls more than the cheerleader, or he simply cannot get over the feeling that he does not deserve her and thus does not even try to pursue her. In both cases, they like maintaining the status quo more than anything.

The Christian loves himself for what God loves in him now, and for what he can be in God, and hates whatever that can hinder that, including himself. The pessimist and insecure loves how he is now, no matter how sad his condition is currently, because he hates the risk and effort of having faith in and loving God. The pessimist and insecure would rather have the pitiful happiness and comfort he has right now than risk a perceived possible losing of that happiness.

For whoever would save his life will lose it, and whoever loses his life for my sake will find it. (Matthew 16:25)

So what are the practical aspects of this? What do we teach the insecure and pessimist?

Well first of all we must determine whether they are suicidal or have any psychiatric problems. If they are, then they should be immediately referred for psychiatric evaluation.

Barring the above, the two most important things to teach them and cultivate in them would be a great confidence in God’s love and a great love for suffering. From personal experience, these are the two pillars on which they will rest so firmly, that they will not succumb to the most severe trials.

They must focus on the breadth and depth of God’s love for them, for, as I had said, this will put all their other loves and hates into perspective, and will give them supernatural courage. Praying the Rosary or the practice of Lectio Divina will definitely help here.

This courage must be tempered by a love of the Crucified One and the doctrine of redemptive suffering. The pessimist and the insecure go through lots of pain due to their sensitivity to emotional pain and disappointment (I should know), and thus they must both be strengthened to endure these pains, and at the same time use them profitably. On this aspect, I would suggest starting by praying the Hours of the Cross, which recalls the hours of the Way of the Cross.

For more information, please read on the melancholic temperament, the temperament of most pessimists and insecure people.

God bless you.
 
But as to self-loathing and calling God a liar, this is not logical. God, the creator of all things does not create imperfection. Imperfection is caused by a person’s choices, thus having become defective of his or her own free will. Self-loathing may be induced not necessarily from a single event, but of a repeating factor that begins to erode a person’t self-esteem to the point of splitting themselves in two entities, one “good”, and the other “bad”. To regain that purity, the good side will attempt to purge the bad side and thus remove the defect.
Not necessarily. The cause of imperfection may be the result of trauma such as rape victim, child abuse, even guys like me who have ten-year history of being bullied. That’s not to say we are without our own faults but I can’t say everything is our fault now can I?
 
If they are really so down that they cannot help themselves they might need some psychological help and perhaps even medication. :\
That would work if popular media didn’t depict such people as no-life losers who sit in a recliner next to a shrink for an hour every day.
 
I believe you really cannot grasp my example. I am talking about people who are too lost in hopelessness, people too consumed by despair to do anything about themselves. You seem to think just because a person wants to be happy, he will go from being down to peppy? Sorry, but the real world says otherwise.
I find it hard to believe that a person can despair and be truly humble in the first place, Despair is hopelessness, “No one can help me. God can’t/won’t help me.” Again, going against what the scriptures say, ‘He’s always faithful, He’s close to the broken hearted, He will never leave nor forsake us…’ If he’s said that He would NEVER leave or FORSAKE you, then to say ‘He won’t help me.’ is to call Him a liar. To say ‘He can’t’ is to call Him weak. His title is not the ‘Almighty God’ for no good reason. Despair is a sin against the Holy Spirit by it’s very nature. There is NO HUMILITY in sin. Period.

In despair humility is about the best thing a person can do. God never refuses a humble and contrite heart. That being said, the very nature of despair makes humility exceedingly dificult. Like I said, it’s hopelessness. In such a case where a person cannot do ANYTHING but despair, I read in the Diary of Divine Mercy, that God will make the first move and extend a special grace to that person, which, if refused will result in Hell. Not because God desires to punish them, but because they spurrned His last attempt to help them.
Again, one does not need to accuse God of error when there are in fact alternative causes of imperfection. I stated already an example didn’t I? Our fallen nature. We didn’t have those when we were originally created. We may have been wonderfully made at first but thanks to Original Sin, we’re not anymore.
A person’s imperfections cannot make them a mistake because we didn’t plan ourselves, God planned us. Even the original sin cannot make a person a mistake in God’s eyes. If he didn’t want us here, he simply would have denied us the privilage to exist.
The same can be said even now. You may think others have been wonderfully made but somewhere along their lives (whether it be by their own fault or worse, someone else or worse still, bad circumstances) they broke. Now they’re nothing but struggling defects whose every attempt at redemption just adds more to their list of glaring flaws (well, “glaring” according to those who like using those flaws as footstools for their own ego).
Humility doesn’t look at itself and its defects, it looks at God’s Mercy and is comforted. Pride never looks at or talks about anything or anyone but itself. Good or Bad.
 
Like I said, it’s hopelessness. In such a case where a person cannot do ANYTHING but despair, I read in the Diary of Divine Mercy, that God will make the first move and extend a special grace to that person, which, if refused will result in Hell. Not because God desires to punish them, but because they spurrned His last attempt to help them.
Yup, there’s a thought to compound the despair! :rolleyes:
 
Not necessarily. The cause of imperfection may be the result of trauma such as rape victim, child abuse, even guys like me who have ten-year history of being bullied. That’s not to say we are without our own faults but I can’t say everything is our fault now can I?
True, but even after experiencing such trauma, we still retain our free will, do we not? That means no matter what outside influences may have shaped me into who or what I am today did not and still today does not hinder my freedom to make my own decisions, right or wrong.

Henceforth, from my own understanding, I do not blame the faults of others for my own poor decisions.

By principal, I must extend Mercy to others for only God and the individual know their own heart, so I do not have enough information to form a correct judgement on that state of their soul.

On the flip side, I DO possess sufficient data to formulate a judgement of my own. With the understanding of this, the part of me that desires good demands justice, to be completely purged of sin and imperfection. But off in the darkness, I hear a small voice wimpering “mercy”.
 
Yes, it does. However, what can be done if a person refuses God’s mercy?
I think that this is what Jesus meant when he spoke of someone who sinned against the Holy Spirit could not be saved…
 
Yes, it does. However, what can be done if a person refuses God’s mercy?
While it may be true, if in the end, they reject mercy, saying to a person struggling with despair, essentially, ‘you get one shot’ is more damaging then helping (and what if, thanks to you, they believe they have missed it?)

Galadriel is far better to cite: “Yet hope remains while the Company is true”.
 
Lykex,

Here is a video I saw recently. It may or may not address completely what you are dealing with, but I thought it was very powerful.


God’s Chisel

**I think it’s important to realize that you have value, but that the only reason you have value is that God created you. He made you in His image. You will never find self-worth apart from Him. I think that’s the essence of humility. Seeing the good inside of yourself for what it is: God’s grace. **
God doesn’t make junk.

I’ll pray for you.

Peace,
Love,
Joy
 
I find it hard to believe that a person can despair and be truly humble in the first place, Despair is hopelessness, “No one can help me. God can’t/won’t help me.” Again, going against what the scriptures say, ‘He’s always faithful, He’s close to the broken hearted, He will never leave nor forsake us…’
Aaaand again, you’re just repeating the ever so naive answer: Pure faith. Again, how will that stand against proof? In 1 Peter 3:15 we are even commanded to give an adequate defense of that faith.
but sanctify Christ as Lord in your hearts. Always be ready to give an explanation to anyone who asks you for a reason for your hope,
Are you saying that blind faith is in of itself an adequate explanation for that faith? I’ve seen atheists stick harder to their beliefs because of that fallacy.
If he’s said that He would NEVER leave or FORSAKE you, then to say ‘He won’t help me.’ is to call Him a liar. To say ‘He can’t’ is to call Him weak. His title is not the ‘Almighty God’ for no good reason. Despair is a sin against the Holy Spirit by it’s very nature. There is NO HUMILITY in sin. Period.
I’m sorry but in the Bible there’s also John 16:24
Until now you have not asked anything in my name; ask and you will receive, so that your joy may be complete.
So if I suddenly ask God for magic powers and He doesn’t choose to grant them, does that make Him a liar when it states that He will give whatever we ask?
In despair humility is about the best thing a person can do. God never refuses a humble and contrite heart. That being said, the very nature of despair makes humility exceedingly dificult. Like I said, it’s hopelessness. In such a case where a person cannot do ANYTHING but despair, I read in the Diary of Divine Mercy, that God will make the first move and extend a special grace to that person, which, if refused will result in Hell. Not because God desires to punish them, but because they spurrned His last attempt to help them.
Actually I agree with CDNowak. You’re more likely to be held accountable for that person’s lack of faith because you just reinforced it. Tell me, what do you have against actually boosting that person’s diminished ego?
A person’s imperfections cannot make them a mistake because we didn’t plan ourselves, God planned us. Even the original sin cannot make a person a mistake in God’s eyes. If he didn’t want us here, he simply would have denied us the privilage to exist.
And yet again, where is your proof? Heck, why do you seem to insist in this avoidance to provide proof? You know that scene from Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix?
Harry: I’m NOT weak!
Snape: Then prove it!
That’s pretty much the battle that goes on in my own heart and mind. Remember, it was difficult enough for our theologians to present a logical case for our faith in God without empirical evidence, how much more when we need to make a case for faith in ourselves who are not omnipotent?
Humility doesn’t look at itself and its defects, it looks at God’s Mercy and is comforted. Pride never looks at or talks about anything or anyone but itself. Good or Bad.
Read a dictionary, please.
pride
  1. a high or inordinate opinion of one’s own dignity, importance, merit, or superiority, whether as cherished in the mind or as displayed in bearing, conduct, etc.
  1. the state or feeling of being proud.
  1. a becoming or dignified sense of what is due to oneself or one’s position or character; self-respect; self-esteem.
  1. pleasure or satisfaction taken in something done by or belonging to oneself or believed to reflect credit upon oneself: civic pride.
  1. something that causes a person or persons to be proud: His art collection was the pride of the family.
  1. the best of a group, class, society, etc.: This bull is the pride of the herd.
  1. the most flourishing state or period: in the pride of adulthood.
Pride is only positive with regards to the ego, not the other way around. Only the idiotic variety of emo will stick to despair despite proof, like the dwarves in the last book of The Chronicles of Narnia and even they are seen to take a sort of twisted pride in their pessimism.

That does not rule out the possibility of those out there who simply seek proof of their worth but have grown weary of their quest because they’re so alone.
 
**I think it’s important to realize that you have value, but that the only reason you have value is that God created you. He made you in His image. You will never find self-worth apart from Him. I think that’s the essence of humility. Seeing the good inside of yourself for what it is: God’s grace.

God doesn’t make junk.**
Yes I know. I acknowledge that whatever goodness/merit there is in yourself, it is from God. However, the problem is what happens when somewhere along your life, you find it difficult believe in that goodness?

Now I’ve watched a few minutes of your video and in fact, I feel like I’m more of the complete opposite of the guy who needs chiseling. I mean if God were to actually cite me a list of my flaws, I’d just keep staring gloomily like this guy:

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)

And saying: “Tell me something I don’t know…”

Would it really be advisable to preach humility, as it seems to be understood on some threads I’ve encountered as a sort of diminishing of oneself, to such low-spirited people?

And on the other hand, is it then also wrong to give them reason to believe in themselves again? Is self-confidence in of itself the pride we are called to abhor?
 
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