Husband and I not having sex because we don't want children.

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Talk to a priest? Where do priests today have time to talk to parishioners? Some parishes do not even have a single priest and have to share. The church closest to me has one priest for over 2,000 families. Multiply that times the average number in the family and maybe you are talking about 6,000 people. Then out of those 6,000 people, there are probably 2,000 having issues of faith, morality, adultery, etc. and you think a priest has time to have discussions on matters of faith? Hah!

Without getting too specific, one family members are experiencing lack of faith because of an adulterous spouse; another has a a real hate for the cheating spouse, the faithful spouse cannot understand why God would let this happen to her and her children and is having a crisis of faith right now.

One of my parents left the Church because of the child abuse that was so widespread. The reason being is that my parent saw the Church leadership as a good-old-boys club that protected one another instead of protecting the children.

As for children, Catholic education is fast becoming something only the very rich can afford. Not enough priests and nuns to educate them at a reasonable cost.

I could go on and on. But maybe you’ll get the point. We’re one family in a parish of thousands. Everyone has a cross to bear in life and some need help more than others. The facts are that our priests are few and the troubles, questions and need for help are numerous.

So getting answers is nearly impossible. So if the Church is being guided by the Holy Spirit, well it is hard to see. Maybe the Church has become so corrupt and lost its way that the Holy Spirit has even left it. Just like I feel the priests have left us.

Hey, but you are all right and I am wrong. I’ll just continue on as before. No wonder so many are leaving the Church for other Christian faiths where they feel more welcomed and supported.

Peace all.
You are right. Many are leaving because the FEEL a certain way. Just like many sin because they FEEL a certain way. Morality is not a feeling, it is a Truth. And there is only ONE Truth. You will find that when one allows himself to be blown in the wind the way he “feels” he will never find a true home. Including those who leave the faith because they want to FEEl welcome somewhere else.

I see that you live in OH. I know several priests would talk to you in that area. Heck, I am one state away and I’ll bet my priest would meet with you! You are correct that many priests run parishes like businesses and they are quite busy. We are quite blessed to have a parish where the priest has stated his main job is to minister to the flock. You can find this in your area too. Please, go to parishes, walk in, schedule an appointment with a good Holy priest. One who serves His Church out of faith and love. They exist. Some may be closer and more available than you think.
 
Forgive me, but you sound like you are having a crisis of faith yourself?
Absolutely. Do I believe in God, yes. Do I feel a bit abandoned, yes.

Do I feel the Church is in crisis, yes. Do I feel the Church is addressing the crisis? No.

I think that sums it up.
 
Absolutely. Do I believe in God, yes. Do I feel a bit abandoned, yes.

Do I feel the Church is in crisis, yes. Do I feel the Church is addressing the crisis? No.

I think that sums it up.
Oh Bob. I feel the same way.😦

As Jesus says:

“Will you too leave me?”

No we cannot!

And it breaks my heart. But in the Church we have the words of eternal life? Where else should we go?
 
You are right. Many are leaving because the FEEL a certain way. Just like many sin because they FEEL a certain way. Morality is not a feeling, it is a Truth. And there is only ONE Truth. You will find that when one allows himself to be blown in the wind the way he “feels” he will never find a true home. Including those who leave the faith because they want to FEEl welcome somewhere else.

I see that you live in OH. I know several priests would talk to you in that area. Heck, I am one state away and I’ll bet my priest would meet with you! You are correct that many priests run parishes like businesses and they are quite busy. We are quite blessed to have a parish where the priest has stated his main job is to minister to the flock. You can find this in your area too. Please, go to parishes, walk in, schedule an appointment with a good Holy priest. One who serves His Church out of faith and love. They exist. Some may be closer and more available than you think.
Thank you, but all these issues are not something which can be addressed in a few hours. I don’t know if there is a priest anywhere who could spend the time addressing all the issues of family, Church teaching, faith, etc. Too many issues, not enough time.

I have tried scheduling time with a priest in our parish. You know, it’s the I have an opening in three weeks, we’ll meet for an hour.

OK, an hour is not enough time. Practically had to beg to get him to call the adulterous spouse of one of my children.

Even went into the KofC years ago. Thought it would be great to join a Catholic fraternal organization. Still in it, but don’t go to meetings. They just push insurance for those in perfect health and sell raffle tickets. Not much support there, in fact not much Catholic fraternity at all. Had some suggestions so called, emailed, the Grand Knight in Ohio. No response to any calls or emails.

But when I look at friends who have issues with employment or paying the bills and who belong to some of the other Christian churches, they always get help from their faith communities.

It’s just disappointing.

So you got a priest who can spend a few weeks addressing matters of faith and family issues? I’m listening.
 
a Josephite marriage, like any other marriage, will not bear the fruit God intends if it is lived for self-centered reasons or in a self-centered way.
By golly, isn’t that what I just said??? It’s not a Josephite Marriage if it’s done for selfish reasons such as she (OP) stated herself. God Bless, Memaw

If the couple refrains from sexual relations by mutual consent and among their reasons is a desire to be free to serve God more totally, which is one the reasons the OP stated, then that’s what a Josephite marriage is. As long as it is possible that this is their call, then it is not for us to tell her that there is no call just because there is the possibility that the couple needs to advance in imitating the Lord’s own regard for children.
 
Oh Bob. I feel the same way.😦

As Jesus says:

“Will you too leave me?”

No we cannot!

And it breaks my heart. But in the Church we have the words of eternal life? Where else should we go?
Your last statement is indeed correct. I don’t know where else to go, but the Church is not meeting my needs and the needs of my family.

But then again, I look at the world and see millions in need, so why would God address my needs before the needs of the others? Hence the abandonment feeling.
 
I am trying to. I have prayed about it. I feel so sick seeing a pram or baby items. My husband says he can’t imagine a life with children.
This doesn’t sound normal or healthy. You both might want to consider counseling as well as spiritual direction.

Fear is at the root of most bad or mistaken human actions. The words Christ most often spoke in the Gospels are: Do not be afraid". Trust God - he has a beautiful plan for you and your husband. Sexual relations between spouses is a BIG part of marriage. It’s holy. Don’t close yourselves off from something God gave you. Live together as husband and wife in the fullest sense of the word - including having a normal and healthy intimate life. It will strengthen your marriage.
 
OK I realise what I’m about to say will probably go against catholic teaching. While I respect that you believe God wants all to have fruitful marriages, please please please do not have a child until God has truly changed your heart on how you feel towards children…

Bringing a child into a family who has such contempt towards children, is not truly wanted and was only had out of a sense of “duty” will do immense psychological damage to that child.

I honestly do respect your beliefs as a catholic, I myself love children so will happily have plenty but I do think this belief is taken to the extreme of irresponsibility and idiocy by some catholics. Note I’m not referring to OP per se just advising and generalising. I think of a recent poster who had wanted to divorce and leave her husband since child 3 but still had two more children as it was Gods plan to have as many as necessary. This is stupidity. If you are in a loving relationship and will nurture and care for children, knock yourself out! The OP certainly seems to have the relationship, but please allow God to change your heart before you have kids, do not do it out of a sense of duty!

There are enough unwanted, psychological damaged children in the world, I don’t think we need anymore and it would be irresponsible to do so.
Wow
truer words were never spoken.
 
Thank you, but all these issues are not something which can be addressed in a few hours. I don’t know if there is a priest anywhere who could spend the time addressing all the issues of family, Church teaching, faith, etc. Too many issues, not enough time.

I have tried scheduling time with a priest in our parish. You know, it’s the I have an opening in three weeks, we’ll meet for an hour.

OK, an hour is not enough time. Practically had to beg to get him to call the adulterous spouse of one of my children.

Even went into the KofC years ago. Thought it would be great to join a Catholic fraternal organization. Still in it, but don’t go to meetings. They just push insurance for those in perfect health and sell raffle tickets. Not much support there, in fact not much Catholic fraternity at all. Had some suggestions so called, emailed, the Grand Knight in Ohio. No response to any calls or emails.

But when I look at friends who have issues with employment or paying the bills and who belong to some of the other Christian churches, they always get help from their faith communities.

It’s just disappointing.

So you got a priest who can spend a few weeks addressing matters of faith and family issues? I’m listening.
You know the old saying about how to get to a man’s heart?

Well, that applies to Men of the Cloth as well. I suggest you lure with food. Look around, invite a priest that you think could speak to your issues over to dinner. Let him see your family, let him witness your life. This is how they can be truly helpful.

If you cannot find a priest with an empty belly, or your wife is a horrible cook. PM me and I will see what I can locate for you.😃
 
You know the old saying about how to get to a man’s heart?

Well, that applies to Men of the Cloth as well. I suggest you lure with food. Look around, invite a priest that you think could speak to your issues over to dinner. Let him see your family, let him witness your life. This is how they can be truly helpful.

If you cannot find a priest with an empty belly, or your wife is a horrible cook. PM me and I will see what I can locate for you.😃
First, our priest knows my family and me very well. He knows the issues. We tried meeting over lunch or dinner, it’s just too hard for him to find time. I would have even thought he would have called my child who’s spouse is having an adulterous relationship to see how the child is doing, but no calls, and our priest should know there is an issue since the child is not coming to church. My child very abandoned by the church also.

The priests today just don’t have the time for the parishioners anymore. Too few of them and too much to do. Outside of mass, there is little contact.
 
Your last statement is indeed correct. I don’t know where else to go, but the Church is not meeting my needs and the needs of my family.

But then again, I look at the world and see millions in need, so why would God address my needs before the needs of the others? Hence the abandonment feeling.
From your standpoint, what is the crisis in the Church and what are the needs of your family that are not being met? What are the needs of the Church have you identified as being your duty to meet, and what are you doing as a family to accomplish that service?

God is probably not going to reach down and pluck you out personally, no. In the economy of grace, usually the rescue of the helpless accomplishes the edification of the rescuer, so that there may be doubled grace. If you are praying to God as the flood waters rise, it will do you well to remind yourself what a rescue boat looks like, and ask yourself whether or not you have a boat in your own garage that could rescue both you and your neighbor. If so, there is the answer to both your prayer and your neighbor’s!

For instance, if you believe the crisis in the Church is that there are not enough priests, are you praying for vocations? Are you raising your children in a way typical of someone who will grow up to answer a religious vocation? Where are these priests going to come from, if not from the families of those who see a need?

If you believe the main crisis in the Church is the way it gave sexual predators an ideal place to prey upon the faithful because the Church feared bad press or did not understand the nature of pedophilia as a durable habit of mind and heart, then take heart. Much is being done to address these problems. It is unspeakably sad that it had to happen this way, but at least the Church’s failures are making the public realize that the way to prevent the sexual abuse of children is to realize that sexual predators do not always look creepy any more than a thief always looks unreliable. The world is a safer place for children, both inside the Church and outside of it, because of how these scandals are finally being addressed. The work is ongoing, but it is well under way.

If you believe the Church is in crisis because the faith is not well-understood, what have you done to pursue the continuing adult education that the Church offers? Have you gone after what you desire, or do you expect someone to come and serve it to you? Or is the crisis because you feel you are hearing too many different opinions and do not know what to believe? If that is so, please know that the catechism and all the major documents are available online, at the Vatican’s own website. This ministry also exists to help you sort out the wheat from the chaff with regards to what is true teaching. If you want to find true teaching, you can find it.

I will warn you of this much: If you think the Church is in crisis because it will not change its teachings on sexual morality, on the ordination of women, on divorce, and on the other issues that some other Christian denominations are rushing to change, then of that kind of change the Church rightly says, “Heaven forbid it.” Do not wait around for that kind of change to happen, and I pray you, do not hope for it! If the Church has a crisis, it is the number of Catholics who want that kind of change.

I remember a story related by a priest who went to a seminar given by another priest who was on the faculty at a “progressive” seminary, in which the speaker claimed to be offering “new insights” into the faith. As he left, another priest turned to him and made a remark in this fashion: “He calls them new insights, but he doesn’t know his history. They were all old ideas and some were old heresies.” The seminary was subsequently closed.

As for the OP, couples choosing Josephite marriages have traditionally been in close contact with their pastor or spiritual advisor about it, because of the difficulty of keeping the resolve and keeping the couple on the same page about what they’re choosing. That is the way to go.
 
First, our priest knows my family and me very well. He knows the issues. We tried meeting over lunch or dinner, it’s just too hard for him to find time. I would have even thought he would have called my child who’s spouse is having an adulterous relationship to see how the child is doing, but no calls, and our priest should know there is an issue since the child is not coming to church. My child very abandoned by the church also.

The priests today just don’t have the time for the parishioners anymore. Too few of them and too much to do. Outside of mass, there is little contact.
Think about the number of priests per Catholic today and the prevalence of not just adultery, but drug abuse, parent-child strife, and other ills in the family and in society. It is physically impossible for the priests to do what people want, and yet who is willing for their son to be a priest or their son or daughter to be radically dedicated to the service of God to the point of embracing a life of sacrifice and service?

Besides, who says that the priest has the only hands in the parish fitted for service in the Body of Christ? Why expect the priest to do it all? When Sunday Mass ends with “Go in peace to love and serve the Lord”, that is a dismissal to serve, not a dismissal to wait to be served.
 
Talk to a priest? Where do priests today have time to talk to parishioners? Some parishes do not even have a single priest and have to share. The church closest to me has one priest for over 2,000 families. Multiply that times the average number in the family and maybe you are talking about 6,000 people. Then out of those 6,000 people, there are probably 2,000 having issues of faith, morality, adultery, etc. and you think a priest has time to have discussions on matters of faith? Hah!

Without getting too specific, one family members are experiencing lack of faith because of an adulterous spouse; another has a a real hate for the cheating spouse, the faithful spouse cannot understand why God would let this happen to her and her children and is having a crisis of faith right now.

One of my parents left the Church because of the child abuse that was so widespread. The reason being is that my parent saw the Church leadership as a good-old-boys club that protected one another instead of protecting the children.

As for children, Catholic education is fast becoming something only the very rich can afford. Not enough priests and nuns to educate them at a reasonable cost.

I could go on and on. But maybe you’ll get the point. We’re one family in a parish of thousands. Everyone has a cross to bear in life and some need help more than others. The facts are that our priests are few and the troubles, questions and need for help are numerous.

So getting answers is nearly impossible. So if the Church is being guided by the Holy Spirit, well it is hard to see. Maybe the Church has become so corrupt and lost its way that the Holy Spirit has even left it. Just like I feel the priests have left us.

Hey, but you are all right and I am wrong. I’ll just continue on as before. No wonder so many are leaving the Church for other Christian faiths where they feel more welcomed and supported.

Peace all.
It sounds like you are looking for mere men to save you. That can never happen. Only God can save us. If you don’t expect man to save you, you won’t be disappointed. Don’t rely on feelings, those change at any whim. The only thing that matters is truth, which is God. God gives us His truth in earthen vessels which is the visible Church. Earthen vessels are not perfect and never will be. Earthen vessels don’t save you, the truth they contain is what saves.

Your posts are full of desolations. Only God gives consolation. Have you confessed your bitter feelings towards the Church? I say this because I too was once burdened with bitter feelings towards my perception that the Church had failed me. Once I began confessing this in Reconciliation, God gave me the grace to overcome it and no longer see it the same way. I now see the problems within the Church for the glory that God uses them to bring. You can see this in yourself too, if you you pray for the grace of God to show it to you and actively participate in the sacraments, especially Reconciliation in this instance. If the earthen vessels were so perfect, many of us would never find God within them. But He is there! We can only find Him when we realize that we need Him. It’s realizing our need for Him that we are able to see what is hidden.

The closest parish to me also has one priest for 2,000 parishioners. I drive a little further to go to a parish with more Priests…more parishioners too but more Priests. My Priest meets with me sometimes once a week, sometimes every other week. I email him when I have a question. He gave me his cell phone number and I call him when I am having a crisis. It’s true that there aren’t enough priests to deal with all of the problems in any one given parish but guess what? The majority of those people do not seek the help of their priest. My priest has time for me. You can find one who has time for you too. Ultimately, it’s God who will heal you. You have to seek him and accept his Church despite it’s flaws. You have to stop expecting the earthen vessel to meet your needs – it never will. Only God contained within can meet your needs. And you can not find him in the fullness in any other church made up by men. Yes, it’s easier for people to leave and go to a made-up Protestant Church where they get what they perceive as rainbows and butterflies. But those churches do not have the fullness of Christ Jesus. The Bible warns us against doing this in 2 Timothy 4:3. Switching to a Protestant church is not the answer that will save you.

You say you never heard where Jesus taught on these matters. I disagree but I see that this is not clear for you. But what is clear is when Jesus said he was handing the keys to his Church to Peter and that whatever he loosed and bound on earth is loosed and bound in heaven. You remember that, right? You remember when Jesus told his Apostles, that when people hear them, they hear Him. Right? Jesus tells you to listen to the Church despite their flaws. You remember when Jesus said that the gates of hell would never overcome his Church, right? And despite the many flaws within the Church, He has held true to that commitment.
 
From your standpoint, what is the crisis in the Church and what are the needs of your family that are not being met? What are the needs of the Church have you identified as being your duty to meet, and what are you doing as a family to accomplish that service?

God is probably not going to reach down and pluck you out personally, no. In the economy of grace, usually the rescue of the helpless accomplishes the edification of the rescuer, so that there may be doubled grace. If you are praying to God as the flood waters rise, it will do you well to remind yourself what a rescue boat looks like, and ask yourself whether or not you have a boat in your own garage that could rescue both you and your neighbor. If so, there is the answer to both your prayer and your neighbor’s!

For instance, if you believe the crisis in the Church is that there are not enough priests, are you praying for vocations? Are you raising your children in a way typical of someone who will grow up to answer a religious vocation? Where are these priests going to come from, if not from the families of those who see a need?

If you believe the main crisis in the Church is the way it gave sexual predators an ideal place to prey upon the faithful because the Church feared bad press or did not understand the nature of pedophilia as a durable habit of mind and heart, then take heart. Much is being done to address these problems. It is unspeakably sad that it had to happen this way, but at least the Church’s failures are making the public realize that the way to prevent the sexual abuse of children is to realize that sexual predators do not always look creepy any more than a thief always looks unreliable. The world is a safer place for children, both inside the Church and outside of it, because of how these scandals are finally being addressed. The work is ongoing, but it is well under way.

If you believe the Church is in crisis because the faith is not well-understood, what have you done to pursue the continuing adult education that the Church offers? Have you gone after what you desire, or do you expect someone to come and serve it to you? Or is the crisis because you feel you are hearing too many different opinions and do not know what to believe? If that is so, please know that the catechism and all the major documents are available online, at the Vatican’s own website. This ministry also exists to help you sort out the wheat from the chaff with regards to what is true teaching. If you want to find true teaching, you can find it.

I will warn you of this much: If you think the Church is in crisis because it will not change its teachings on sexual morality, on the ordination of women, on divorce, and on the other issues that some other Christian denominations are rushing to change, then of that kind of change the Church rightly says, “Heaven forbid it.” Do not wait around for that kind of change to happen, and I pray you, do not hope for it! If the Church has a crisis, it is the number of Catholics who want that kind of change.

I remember a story related by a priest who went to a seminar given by another priest who was on the faculty at a “progressive” seminary, in which the speaker claimed to be offering “new insights” into the faith. As he left, another priest turned to him and made a remark in this fashion: “He calls them new insights, but he doesn’t know his history. They were all old ideas and some were old heresies.” The seminary was subsequently closed.

As for the OP, couples choosing Josephite marriages have traditionally been in close contact with their pastor or spiritual advisor about it, because of the difficulty of keeping the resolve and keeping the couple on the same page about what they’re choosing. That is the way to go.
Well trying to respond and work.

So let me try to be brief. The crisis in the Church is in several areas.

First, we have immoral people in the Church leadership.

Second, the Church is not addressing any human needs like the Protestant churches do for their membership.

Three we as members have no say on our Church and parishes. Our money has been wasted paying off the claims of the people sexually abused.

Four, our schools are for the rich. The average family can no longer afford a Catholic education for their children.

Five, the Church is doing nothing to rid itself of so-called Catholic politicians who openly promote and support the killing of children through abortion. Should Ted Kennedy really have been given a Catholic funeral? Seems like he and the others like him should be excommunicated.

Six, our clergy are few and unavailable for the Catholic faithful.

There are a few more, but I think that pretty much sums it up.
 
Well trying to respond and work.

So let me try to be brief. The crisis in the Church is in several areas.

First, we have immoral people in the Church leadership.
Every religion has corrupt or less than savory people in leadership.
 
Every religion has corrupt or less than savory people in leadership.
Oh, OK, that makes me feel much better.

(inject sarcasm when reading the above)

What was that they teach in Catholic Schools…because everyone is doing something does not make it right or moral.
 
Well trying to respond and work.

So let me try to be brief. The crisis in the Church is in several areas.

First, we have immoral people in the Church leadership.

Second, the Church is not addressing any human needs like the Protestant churches do for their membership.

Three we as members have no say on our Church and parishes. Our money has been wasted paying off the claims of the people sexually abused.

Four, our schools are for the rich. The average family can no longer afford a Catholic education for their children.

Five, the Church is doing nothing to rid itself of so-called Catholic politicians who openly promote and support the killing of children through abortion. Should Ted Kennedy really have been given a Catholic funeral? Seems like he and the others like him should be excommunicated.

Six, our clergy are few and unavailable for the Catholic faithful.

There are a few more, but I think that pretty much sums it up.
Jumping in here.
One: we have humans in the leadership. We all have flaws. I’m not trying to excuse anything that has happened, but if you excommunicate or fire everybody that sinned, the Church would be empty. She is a hospital for sinners, not a museum for saints.

Two: Human needs such as? i know that my parish at least runs a food pantry for people that are in need.

Three: Are there committees in your parish? Have you looked? Perhaps there is a way to give (name removed by moderator)ut on how the money is spent. But remember, it is a donation and we don’t dictate the life of the Church.

Four: It is sad indeed. But it is also up to the parents to help form their child’s education. I’m not as knowledgeable about Catholic schools, but I’m sure some have scholarships. the Church is a community. we’re called to take care of each other.

Five : I think that is up to the person’s priest or Bishop, but I’m not sure. I’d need to do more research.

Six: we are in a shortage of priests, yes. but they are still there. you may just have to practice patience while they tend to their whole flock.

I’ll be praying for you!
 
Well trying to respond and work.

So let me try to be brief. The crisis in the Church is in several areas.

First, we have immoral people in the Church leadership.

Second, the Church is not addressing any human needs like the Protestant churches do for their membership.

Three we as members have no say on our Church and parishes. Our money has been wasted paying off the claims of the people sexually abused.

Four, our schools are for the rich. The average family can no longer afford a Catholic education for their children.

Five, the Church is doing nothing to rid itself of so-called Catholic politicians who openly promote and support the killing of children through abortion. Should Ted Kennedy really have been given a Catholic funeral? Seems like he and the others like him should be excommunicated.

Six, our clergy are few and unavailable for the Catholic faithful.

There are a few more, but I think that pretty much sums it up.
In terms of schools…do you think that is really a church thing or a country/political thing? Here in the UK most of the catholic schools are state (our free). There are a couple of private (fee paying) but not many.

Protestant churches aren’t all that shines, I’ve been really struggling to know where I belong church wise and what I believe. I’ve hardly been to my old church…no calls, no texts, no are you ok. They’ve even stopped inviting me to group gatherings. People are sinners, they are judgemental and can be horrible. I’m starting to realise you find that in any church…the grass isn’t greener believe me!
 
In terms of schools…do you think that is really a church thing or a country/political thing? Here in the UK most of the catholic schools are state (our free). There are a couple of private (fee paying) but not many.
Also in Australia, no Catholic child is turned away because of lack of money. Many, many school fees are negotiated to something cope-able. We also have optional components on our school fees bills to do with building funds etc. so that the more well off families can choose to take the load off the less well off. It works really well.
 
In case some of you haven’t noticed, the topic post contained an urgent plea for advice. The poster did not intend to create a forum for debate on peripheral issues. Let’s be polite and stay on topic. Thanks.
 
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