Husband as leader

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Hi,

I am newly married (about six months). I have had a hard time figuring out how the leadership role is supposed to play in terms of a husband being a leader. My wife and I have talked about it and she has (at least verbally) agreed that as far as authority goes, the husband should be the ultimate leader of the family, and in the case of a disagreement that we can’t find unity on, she has agreed to let me be the final decider on the matter.

Now I am not a domineering person in any way, shape or form. My wife could attest to this. I always listen and am willing to change my mind if I feel that the needs of another are not being met. However, I have found this leadership role is very hard to put into practice. I feel that with my wife it is never just a settled matter. I feel that my decision will be constantly questioned and undermined until I finally give in and give her what she wants. And yes, we have talked about this and she has even recognized this tendency in herself but it still happens (she doesn’t necessarily think about it when she does it, it just comes naturally to her). So I guess my question is how I ought to respond to this.

An example in our case would be the one of fertility. My wife and I are both committed to using NFP and, as our instructor told us, would have “the talk” about whether or not to avoid or achieve pregnancy that month. When we were first married, we talked about this, and I explained that I wanted to try to avoid in the beginning (though I expressed that I didn’t have an intention of avoiding for a very long time). My reasoning was that we were newly married, had just bought a house (or rather, I had just bought a house, since we’re a single income family right now), the house needed work and I had other financial obligations to attend to, and I wanted to practice the avoiding part of NFP so that we could get the hang of it and feel comfortable with it. She initially agreed to this. But it wasn’t settled. Every time she would see a baby or baby clothes, she would talk about how much she wanted one, but, “husband wants to wait.” She would always bring up how all our newly married Catholic friends are having babies now. And she would always question whether we were being really open to life. Eventually I gave in and we became pregnant three months into our marriage. I am not sorry about being pregnant; what’s done is done and I will be happy to be a father. What I am sorry about is how we came to that decision. It feels wrong. I have been very bitter and feel that I didn’t really have a say in the matter after all. I couldn’t understand why it would be such a terrible thing for her to wait maybe six months to a year before thinking about getting pregnant, instead of getting pregnant right now.

A more recent example is in choosing a parish. My wife and I had disagreed about which parish to make our home parish. The one she wants to go to is the one she’s been going to since she was a little girl. The only problem I have with this parish is that the priest says things in his homily that are at times highly questionable theologically, there is too much liturgical liberty, and there are also fundraising activities during the mass that are done in a way that seems very wrong. My wife also recognizes these problems but has an emotional attachment to the church. I have been wanting to go to a parish that has solid priests, has a very active ministry life including faith formation and apologetics, and is faithful to the liturgy. She has agreed to defer to me on this matter but has again made subtle remarks and such to undermine my decision. I have remained steadfast on this, partly out of stubbornness, because for once I want to be able to have a say in something. But this also kind of feels wrong.
 
It is not the most important thing to be right or have things go the way you want them to in a marriage. Stubbornness will only hurt your marriage.

When you got married, you agreed to be open to life and children, and so look at your child coming as a blessing, and not as something that happened that you weren’t in full agreement with your wife on or something weren’t ready for due to a house. We can’t always plan for when babies come, even when practicing NFP. When the baby is here, you will probably wonder why you felt the way you did. Everything happens in God’s good timing.

Hopefully you and your wife will continue talking about the best parish for your growing family. Communication in a healthy way is key. Not you making the choice alone or her making the choice alone. I understand she might feel emotionally attached to the church, but hopefully she can take into account what is best for your family. Pray together on everything, and trust in God.
 
Hi,

I am newly married (about six months). I have had a hard time figuring out how the leadership role is supposed to play in terms of a husband being a leader. My wife and I have talked about it and she has (at least verbally) agreed that as far as authority goes, the husband should be the ultimate leader of the family, and in the case of a disagreement that we can’t find unity on, she has agreed to let me be the final decider on the matter.

**I’ll probably post later, but I do not think that’s a workable system.

I’m sure you’re a nice guy and a smart guy, but it removes the motivation for you to seek compromise if you’re always going to win in the end. Also, there’s still a temptation for her to “cheat” by crying and yelling until you change your mind. (I know you think this won’t happen, but you’re both flawed human beings, and at some point you’re going to face a huge issue that you can’t agree on. And I can’t help but notice that a lot of women that believe that they are practicing submission still do the yelling and crying stuff anyway, by their own admission.🤷)

I think the reason the plan sounds like a good idea to your wife is that she hasn’t had a lot of experience yet with situations where she thinks that you are being selfish or stupid or harming the family.**
**
I would really encourage a different plan–perhaps that in the case where you can’t achieve unity, you agree in advance to go to a neutral third party for a tie-breaker (a pastor or a marriage counselor). In practice, I think you will both find that you can work out 99.99% of issuues without doing this, and having to face a third party will keep you from having big fights about trivia and will keep you fighting fair.**
 
Before this get’s sidetracked as many of the threads on this topic go.

Think about this. Where do you want to lead your wife? You want to lead her to heaven.

I am concerned that you feel bitter about conceiving the baby. Let that part go. Part of conceiving the baby is the marital act and knowing when is the ideal time. For you two it happened sooner, than later, Some people try for a longer time, before conceiving. The bottom line is that you gave yourselves to each other, she was fertile, and now you are expecting a baby. Remember it’s the Holy Spirit, who is the Lord the Giver of Life.

As for the parish, I see your point. Just understand something. Getting married involves a lot of changes. Her clinging to her parish might be comforting for her because it is something that hasn’t changed for her. Maybe visit another parish for daily mass?
Try not to insist, she might prefer another parish.

Hope that helps.
 
Hi,

I am newly married (about six months). I have had a hard time figuring out how the leadership role is supposed to play in terms of a husband being a leader. My wife and I have talked about it and she has (at least verbally) agreed that as far as authority goes, the husband should be the ultimate leader of the family, and in the case of a disagreement that we can’t find unity on, she has agreed to let me be the final decider on the matter.

Now I am not a domineering person in any way, shape or form. My wife could attest to this. I always listen and am willing to change my mind if I feel that the needs of another are not being met. However, I have found this leadership role is very hard to put into practice. I feel that with my wife it is never just a settled matter. I feel that my decision will be constantly questioned and undermined until I finally give in and give her what she wants. And yes, we have talked about this and she has even recognized this tendency in herself but it still happens (she doesn’t necessarily think about it when she does it, it just comes naturally to her). So I guess my question is how I ought to respond to this.

An example in our case would be the one of fertility. My wife and I are both committed to using NFP and, as our instructor told us, would have “the talk” about whether or not to avoid or achieve pregnancy that month. When we were first married, we talked about this, and I explained that I wanted to try to avoid in the beginning (though I expressed that I didn’t have an intention of avoiding for a very long time). My reasoning was that we were newly married, had just bought a house (or rather, I had just bought a house, since we’re a single income family right now), the house needed work and I had other financial obligations to attend to, and I wanted to practice the avoiding part of NFP so that we could get the hang of it and feel comfortable with it. She initially agreed to this. But it wasn’t settled. Every time she would see a baby or baby clothes, she would talk about how much she wanted one, but, “husband wants to wait.” She would always bring up how all our newly married Catholic friends are having babies now. And she would always question whether we were being really open to life. Eventually I gave in and we became pregnant three months into our marriage. I am not sorry about being pregnant; what’s done is done and I will be happy to be a father. What I am sorry about is how we came to that decision. It feels wrong. I have been very bitter and feel that I didn’t really have a say in the matter after all. I couldn’t understand why it would be such a terrible thing for her to wait maybe six months to a year before thinking about getting pregnant, instead of getting pregnant right now.

A more recent example is in choosing a parish. My wife and I had disagreed about which parish to make our home parish. The one she wants to go to is the one she’s been going to since she was a little girl. The only problem I have with this parish is that the priest says things in his homily that are at times highly questionable theologically, there is too much liturgical liberty, and there are also fundraising activities during the mass that are done in a way that seems very wrong. My wife also recognizes these problems but has an emotional attachment to the church. I have been wanting to go to a parish that has solid priests, has a very active ministry life including faith formation and apologetics, and is faithful to the liturgy. She has agreed to defer to me on this matter but has again made subtle remarks and such to undermine my decision. I have remained steadfast on this, partly out of stubbornness, because for once I want to be able to have a say in something. But this also kind of feels wrong.
A good leader doesn’t need to be domineering.
A good leader knows when compromises make sense for both parties, and when compromises conflict with his principles and need to be rejected.

From what I see, the parish is questionable, and you want your future children to grow up in a Parish that is solid. On principle, I do not think the Parish is tangible for that purpose.

On children, that’s a tougher judgement call, but I would say as soon as finances were in order it was her marital right to have a child. That it happened sooner is not so much a big deal.

These threads usually turn into a silly and disingenuous “male headship is abusive” tangent, so I’ll just recommend the best book I’ve read on marital leadership.

amazon.com/Hold-Your-NUTs-Relationship-Manual/dp/0979054400/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top?ie=UTF8
.
 
The wife submits to and loves the husband as the Church submits to and loves Christ. The husband sacrifices and loves his wife as Christ sacrificed and loves the Church.
 
When you are married there is no such thing as “I” bought a house.

It’s “we” bought a house, no matter who earns how much and who doesn’t.
 
The wife submits to and loves the husband as the Church submits to and loves Christ. The husband sacrifices and loves his wife as Christ sacrificed and loves the Church.
How does this play out for you in daily life with your wife? We have lots of posts on these kinds of threads quoting Ephesians, but not many real life applications or detailed examples. It would be nice to read from those responding how it actually works on a daily basis in their marriage. That might cut down on some of the drama that usually gets going when these threads are started.
 
How does this play out for you in daily life with your wife? We have lots of posts on these kinds of threads quoting Ephesians, but not many real life applications or detailed examples. It would be nice to read from those responding how it actually works on a daily basis in their marriage. That might cut down on some of the drama that usually gets going when these threads are started.
Exactly.
My 2 cents:
Congratulations on the baby!
How blessed you are!

Secondly…any Mass where there is Eucharist is a good one. This is not something to get bent about. Many in the world are persecuted and not able to go to Mass or worship freely.

In all things, give thanks.
And see if things don’t work out splendidly for you!
 
Who, precisely, was your wife talking to about you wanting to wait for children? If these were just casual acquaintances, I would consider this very inappropriate behavior: having children is a personal matter, and she should be presenting your decisions as “ours” rather than “his.”

Of course, I feel differently if she was talking to family or close friends.
 
When you are married there is no such thing as “I” bought a house.

It’s “we” bought a house, no matter who earns how much and who doesn’t.
Yes. This stood out to me too. OP, I’m not sure why you felt the need to make sure that detail was included. I’d encourage you to lose the attitude that you purchased the house and she just lives in it. It’s hers too.

As for the baby, if you willingly participated in the act that led to its creation, it’s really counterproductive and damaging to entertain thoughts of “well she wanted it more” or “she pressured me”. It’s not that I don’t understand where you are coming from, or even that you would feel resentful. But unless she lied to you or something and said she wasn’t fertile when she knew she was, you made a choice. Thinking “well she got what she wanted” is no way to welcome a baby. This doesn’t sound like a leadership issue- when to have intercourse is mutually decided.

In our marriage, when we don’t agree sometimes I get what I want and sometimes my husband gets what he wants. It sounds like your wife has agreed to register with the parish you want. Can you go with her to her parish once in awhile? Not everything always has a compromise, but sometimes there are things we can do that make the times we do get what we want easier on the other spouse.
 
While in most aspects I believe men and women to be equal, I do tend to be old fashioned in my belief that I believe the husband is the spiritual head of the household. Or should be. As Christ is the head of the Church, the man is the “priest” of the household.

On non-spiritual issues I do tend to lean towards total partnership. But that’s definitely an individual choice that each couple should make prior to marriage.
 
Being a leader does not mean saying how it will be. It means being an influencer. The worst leaders dictate. The best leaders inspire and provide a model. You can be right or you can be happy. Be happy. Be inspiring. Be loving. If you have a vision of how you want your family to be, you can’t just say ‘here is how it will be.’ That’s not leadership. Model how it will be and inspire your family to imitate that knowing they will add their own variations on that, and that’s a good thing.
 
Who, precisely, was your wife talking to about you wanting to wait for children? If these were just casual acquaintances, I would consider this very inappropriate behavior: having children is a personal matter, and she should be presenting your decisions as “ours” rather than “his.”

Of course, I feel differently if she was talking to family or close friends.
No, she wants the onus of the decision making, good and bad, to be on the husband. If he makes a good decision, he gets the rewards, he also gets the blame for bad decisions. This shelters her from acquiring blame or criticism for the household decisions from outside parties. She was probably asked “why don’t you have kids yet?”, and she deflected the question by stating it was her husband’s decision.

If it works for his family dynamics, more power to them.

It’s like in Game of Thrones, when Ned Stark’s wife kidnapped one of the Lannister’s family, and when questioned,he said she did it on his orders. He was shielding her from retaliation and criticism.
 
I seriously recommend you read, Three To Get Married by Fulton Sheen. It will help you.

amazon.com/Three-Get-Married-Fulton-Sheen/dp/0933932871
Fidelity is related is related to obedience and obience implies order. Nothing is so much inclined to provoke the unthinking as the assertion that there is a hierarcy in love. … Those who have no understanding of function regard this order in love as the servile subjection of the wife to the husband, which it is not. The relation between husband and wife is the relation of Christ and the church.
He goes into a rather long and insightful section that you should read.

As a long married man, take my advice. Happy wife happy life. You serve her, sacrifice for her, make her happy not yourself. Its the way of the cross.
 
I posted this in the “refusing sex” topic but I think it applies here too:

Some of the '“traditionalist” opinions here really give the impression that marriage is supposed to be an unrelenting power struggle, with the husband constantly asserting his authority over his rebellious manipulative wife. Or perhaps, that the only way to have a harmonious marriage, is for the husband to completely “break” his wife so that she unquestioningly follows him like a child, or perhaps a duckling that imprinted on the first object she saw.

If that’s what marriage is, I want no part of it. Even sex doesn’t seem worth that.
 
I seriously recommend you read, Three To Get Married by Fulton Sheen. It will help you.

amazon.com/Three-Get-Married-Fulton-Sheen/dp/0933932871

He goes into a rather long and insightful section that you should read.

As a long married man, take my advice. Happy wife happy life. You serve her, sacrifice for her, make her happy not yourself. Its the way of the cross.
You can’t force someone to be happy, and you can’t base your life on the emotions of another human being.

Help get your wife to heaven. That is the way of the Cross. Even if she refuses, at least you tried.
 
It almost seems like you and your wife did not know each other very well before getting married. Maybe you just need to take the time before your baby is born to relax and enjoy being a couple where NO ONE is in charge or thinks they should be in their own mind. :eek:
 
If that’s what marriage is, I want no part of it. Even sex doesn’t seem worth that.
It’s going to just depend on the two people involved. I know women who want a more “traditional” type of marriage where the man is the boss and she does what he says. Heck, I work for a couple that have that exact type of marriage. And yet they have harmony, because that’s what they both want.

And I know people with much more modern relationships where it’s a complete partnership. I also know many relationships where the woman is clearly in control.

I think the key is that there is compatibility and that both people are okay with the power dynamic in their relationship. Ideally that would be discussed prior to marriage.
 
It’s going to just depend on the two people involved. I know women who want a more “traditional” type of marriage where the man is the boss and she does what he says. Heck, I work for a couple that have that exact type of marriage. And yet they have harmony, because that’s what they both want.

And I know people with much more modern relationships where it’s a complete partnership. I also know many relationships where the woman is clearly in control.

I think the key is that there is compatibility and that both people are okay with the power dynamic in their relationship. Ideally that would be discussed prior to marriage.
I think it’s hard to figure this out before actually getting married, unless you have known each other for a really long time.

I got married with strong submission views (having grown up Protestant), but as time as gone by, I know myself better, I know my husband better, and I understand relationships better, I realize that that a strong submission model would never have worked for us.
 
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