Husband doesn't want anymore kids

[Rau]

…After I weaned baby # 2 at 18 months, I was put on contraception for female problems. I wrestled with the decision, but **after consulting with my priest **and much thought I conceded. I took ABC for about 2 years. … I went to confession for taking the ABC because each time I would take it, I just felt that it was wrong. I will say that my dr did put a lot of pressure on me.

The more I read about ABC, the more I realized that it is objectively wrong. I did have medical and hormonal issues that could be treated with the pill, but I think I could have tried alternative therapies more aggressively or sought a different doctor. I don’t know if it was a mortal sin to take the pill, but I know that somewhere along the line I felt truly compelled by God to stop.

The question of whether having marital relations while on medication such as the Pill is immoral or not is being discussed on another thread. May I ask you the following:

• Why were you prescribed the Pill? Was it to actively heal a condition, or was it to control difficult symptoms while you body naturally corrected?
• Over what time frame did the doctor intend that you take the pill?
• What was the Priest’s advice?

 

[Xantippe]

It’s astounding how many men forget sex makes babies.

It seems a lot of men just assume the wife will say something if it’s a risky time and the wife assumes the husband already knows and is willing to take his chances.

For a woman ovulation and the day menstrual flow will begin are part of her normal thought process. For most men, not so much. I’ve found over the years men need very direct and plain speaking on the matter.

For example, were I practicing NFP and my husband and I were about to be intimate I might say something like “Are you sure you want to do this right now?” meaning “I am ovulating or close to ovulation.” and I would be thinking he knew what I meant. Would my DH understand that? Nope! He’d be wondering if I meant the time of day or the mood or if I was worried about being interrupted or something. He’d say “Sure!” and be entirely willing to proceed completely clueless that we’re risking pregnancy.

Now, if I said “Are you sure you want to do this right now because I am likely to get pregnant.” it would be a whole different ballgame.

And to be fair to the OP’s husband, they had previously been so minimally fertile that it’s not surprising if he “forgot.” I remember when we were trying for our first baby, it took a whole (!) six months, and by the time I actually got pregnant, I had kind of forgotten that pregnancy was a possibility. And I’m a woman.

 

[Abundant]

If a married couple has sex, they know a baby can be conceived. Unless they were following her symptoms of fertility to avoid, and she purposefully deceived him by telling him she was not fertile when she was (which I highly doubt that was the situation), then she is not pushing him into a pregnancy without his knowledge! The natural consequence of sex is that a baby can conceived, and it is part of God’s design for this to happen and is something good. A woman does not have to be constantly checking her fertility and bringing up whether or not she is fertile every time a couple decides to have sex. A couple can prayerfully discern a need to avoid and decide to use NFP to avoid, but a couple can also leave themselves open to pregnancy without using NFP and it doesn’t mean the wife is steamrolling her husband into anything!

Thank you for that. I did not trick my husband into conceiving a baby at all. As a matter of fact, at the time, I was making him wake me up every morning to take my temperature so he was quite aware. We actually conceived the baby on New Year’s Eve and before hand I told him that there was a very high probability that I was ovulating. Maybe he had too much champagne or was just feeling especially amorous and celebratory, but he knew exactly what was happening. This notion that getting pregnant is something that women DO to men bothers me more than a little bit. He is fertile 100% of the time while I only have a window of fertility. I do communicate with him about my fertility, but he (along with all husbands) should know that each time he has intercourse, HE is in fact fertile and a baby could be the result.

 

[Abundant]

The question of whether having marital relations while on medication such as the Pill is immoral or not is being discussed on another thread. May I ask you the following:

• Why were you prescribed the Pill? Was it to actively heal a condition, or was it to control difficult symptoms while you body naturally corrected?
• Over what time frame did the doctor intend that you take the pill?
• What was the Priest’s advice?

It was to control symptoms. The doctor intended for me to take the pill indefinitely. The priest advised me that he was not a doctor and pretty much left it at that. I have since found another doctor who uses the Creighton model. I do not know to what extent I was morally culpable for taking the ABC because there was A LOT of pressure on me from my doctor to take the pill, but I did go to reconciliation because I personally felt like it was a mistake on my part because I was not aggressive enough in looking at or for alternatives. However…that was quite some time ago and I have no intention of doing it again. There are a lot of other threads that I think are better suited to discussing the merits of ABC.

 

[LongingSoul]

This notion that getting pregnant is something that women DO to men bothers me more than a little bit. He is fertile 100% of the time while I only have a window of fertility. I do communicate with him about my fertility, but he (along with all husbands) should know that each time he has intercourse, HE is in fact fertile and a baby could be the result.

It’s foolish not to acknowledge the wiles at a womans disposal to get pregnant. They are generally chalked up to ‘accidents’ or ignorance, but they do undermine the trust of a relationship regardless. I’ve been around long enough to see the relationship damage that can result in the long term. I specifically teach my daughter to use her gifts with the highest integrity in her future marriage.

I’m not saying that this was the case for you, just saying that it is a thing that women have to take responsibility for with utmost integrity for the sake of their relationships health and longevity.

 

[Abundant]

We have actually had some resolution on this issue since my first post. My husband went on a retreat last weekend, and was given a book about manhood. He came home and said that while he had an idea how wrong it was to use contraception, he didn’t quite want to know more because he felt like if he knew more, then he would be obliged to obey and he wasn’t ready for that. Since hearing the matter of fact truth about the Church’s teaching and making an examination of conscience, he has a better understanding. I think that it made a big difference to talk to other men about it a little and we are making some progress

 

[Rau]

…The priest advised me that he was not a doctor and pretty much left it at that…

That’s fair enough in connection with the decision to take the pill (medication). The moral decision, which the Priest apparently omitted to comment on, is whether it would be moral for you to have marital relations while taking the pill.

 

[Mulligan2]

We have actually had some resolution on this issue since my first post. My husband went on a retreat last weekend, and was given a book about manhood. He came home and said that while he had an idea how wrong it was to use contraception, he didn’t quite want to know more because he felt like if he knew more, then he would be obliged to obey and he wasn’t ready for that. Since hearing the matter of fact truth about the Church’s teaching and making an examination of conscience, he has a better understanding. I think that it made a big difference to talk to other men about it a little and we are making some progress

Are you defining “progress” as your husband starting to come around to your perspective? Or is real progress defined as understanding each other’s perspectives, needs, wants, etc. and finding common ground?

I haven’t read the whole thread, so forgive me if this has already been discussed, but usually couples discuss how many children they would like to have (along with many other topics) as part of the spousal selection process to see there is compatibility. If there was initial agreement on this, and one of you changed your opinion, I would imagine that the one who changed their opinion would need to be very sensitive to the opinions of the other. That’s just my two cents. Best of luck to you and your family.

 

[edlinked]

We have actually had some resolution on this issue since my first post. My husband went on a retreat last weekend, and was given a book about manhood. He came home and said that while he had an idea how wrong it was to use contraception, he didn’t quite want to know more because he felt like if he knew more, then he would be obliged to obey and he wasn’t ready for that. Since hearing the matter of fact truth about the Church’s teaching and making an examination of conscience, he has a better understanding. I think that it made a big difference to talk to other men about it a little and we are making some progress

Thats great, reading what you said, sometimes it is a very good idea to enter something in the church, meaning something about doing community with church members (as a couple off course). But always keep in mind that many people think thats enough, it is always recommended to learn about some theology, and apologetics, because these state objectively what the church teaches (sometimes this is learn in the groups but not always). This is important because people are people (weak and tend to fall many times), but when you know whats right (morally right) even if temptation gets you, you know you did something wrong and can go back to the correct path. Also, thats why faith in the church and therefore in God, is so important too. Because we dont always know why things are done a certain way, but faith keeps us thinking that even if I dont know why (although we should learn why), I know that thats the correct path.

 

[Abundant]

Are you defining “progress” as your husband starting to come around to your perspective? Or is real progress defined as understanding each other’s perspectives, needs, wants, etc. and finding common ground?

I haven’t read the whole thread, so forgive me if this has already been discussed, but usually couples discuss how many children they would like to have (along with many other topics) as part of the spousal selection process to see there is compatibility. If there was initial agreement on this, and one of you changed your opinion, I would imagine that the one who changed their opinion would need to be very sensitive to the opinions of the other. That’s just my two cents. Best of luck to you and your family.

You may want to go back and read the thread . I don’t particularly want any more kids right now either, but I want to remain “open” to life where he was closed totally. We did talk about it, but time (and kids) change things. In the beginning before we had kids, he wanted 4 or so and I thought 2 was more than enough. I guess the roles reversed! A lot can happen in over a decade of marriage, and I would never say to him, “well, when we got married, you agreed to XYZ and I’m going to hold you to it!” Except for the vows of course.

 

[edlinked]

This are fragments from the book Love and Responsibility by Karol Wojtyla:
About Self mastery
"Every man in himself must appropriately manage the energies that are latent in his sensuality and affectivity so that they become allies in pursuing true love for they can also be, as is well known, its enemies.
The reason directly founding the fact of moral duty, is the dignity of the person.
Continence is the habit of restraining the concupiscence of the flesh by the will, the ability to moderate effectively the sensations connected with the reactions of sensuality and even of affectivity, is an indispensable method of self mastery, although it does not yet determine the full realization of virtue, as it cannot be an end in itself.
Objectivization without continence by no means could one be called self possessed or chaste.
Objectivization: acknowledging the objective order connected with the lived experience of truth about values. The lived experience of truth in relation to values.
Mastering the concupiscence of the flesh is worthy of the person. If he does not do this he jeopardizes his natural perfection; he allows what is inferior to and dependent on him to act in him, and even more, he subjects himself to it.
This mastery not only aims at the perfection of the person who pursues it, but also at the realization of love in the world of persons and above all in the reciprocal relation between persons of different sex.
The very essence of moderation is unequivocal : whoever has not attained it is not self-possessed and temperate- therefore is not chaste.

There is no mature abstinence without acknowledging the objective order of values: the value of the person stands above the values of the sexus. The point here is practical acknowledgement , i.e., one that influence action."

Great book. One other thing, couples have to analyze the lives of Mary, Joseph, and Jesus as a family, as they constitute the correct way to act.