Husband getting vasectomy

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People that are not Catholic, do not observe Catholic rules. If you do not believe in Hinduism, you do not find cows sacred. Protestants do not have a problem with birth control, so a Catholic teaching is worthless to them.
(Please do not roast me for the following)
Not to parallel, not to place blame, but: I knew a man in a similar situation that was protestant, married a Catholic. He did not want additional children. He had a vasectomy as well, but didn’t tell the wife. It was for the purpose of extra-marital affairs without possibility of pregnancy. If he were given the gift of chastity, he would not feel a need for the vasectomy.
We are ultimately responsible for our own decisions. His exercise of free will does not mean you have sinned.
Dominus vobiscum
 
Puppy said:
This is my thinking as well. By agreeing to have sex with him after the vasectomy even though he’s the one doing it and not me and certainly without my approval, doesn’t that make me guilty too? It seems like it should. He full well knows the church’s teaching on the matter. He’s hoping I’ll change my mind, and that places me in a moral predicament
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Yet you would have been OK with condoms.
 
redal said:
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HomeschoolDad:
If he loses his soul, that is on him, not on you.
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Whoa…slow down.

You aren’t implying to know enough about the heart and knowledge of this husband to declare if he gets the procedure done his loss of salvation is ensured, are you?

Because, I don’t believe such a claim can be made.
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It doesn’t mean he’s damned, just that there’s only so much she can do and his choices are his choices.
 
Elf01 said:
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Puppy:
This is my thinking as well. By agreeing to have sex with him after the vasectomy even though he’s the one doing it and not me and certainly without my approval, doesn’t that make me guilty too? It seems like it should. He full well knows the church’s teaching on the matter. He’s hoping I’ll change my mind, and that places me in a moral predicament
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Yet you would have been OK with condoms.
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I think her post made it clear that was a period of weakness from emotional pain, not a claim that it would have been right.
 
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Agnus-Dei said:
Protestants do not have a problem with birth control, so a Catholic teaching is worthless to them.
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They used to have a problem with it, up until the Anglican Communion decided otherwise in the Lambeth Conference of 1930. Other non-Catholic Western Christians followed suit.

Up until the last half of the 20th century, contraceptive methods were fairly crude and awkward to use. When medical science came up with more “seamless”, for lack of a better word, methods of birth control, it became the “shiny new thing” and everyone wanted to partake of it. Easy, satisfying sex pretty much on demand with no (or only minimal) fear of unwanted pregnancy — if there is anything that would be more attractive to human nature uninformed by Divine grace, I’d like to know what it is.

The Catholic Church, almost alone in this, continued to condemn it as gravely sinful, and overwhelmingly, the world both within and outside the Church chose the “shiny new thing” over Church teaching. The Church is right and the world is wrong. It’s no more complicated than that.
 
Puppy said:
He asked me recently if I would have sex with him now but I said no, because I won’t compromise my soul by doing anything other than NFP. I just discovered that he scheduled a vasectomy without telling me, knowing how I feel about it, that I’m against it. I talked to him about it but he’s adamant, even though I told him if he goes through with it, then there’s zero chance of us ever having sex again. He’s doing it anyway.
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Sex can be used to unite or divide a marriage. As a marital counselor would likely tell you, you’re both using sex as a weapon against each other. But it’s even more profound than that.

Most of this thread is about sex. But I think the real issue is about pride. Pride is probably the greatest destroyer of intimacy, whether sexual or emotional intimacy. I see you both contributing your own pride to this dilemma. You’ll save your marriage when you both let up on your own pride.
 
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Puppy said:
By agreeing to have sex with him after the vasectomy even though he’s the one doing it and not me and certainly without my approval, doesn’t that make me guilty too?
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No. It doesn’t. The Church has specifically taught on this matter.
 
Not sure that is the same thing to be honest. IUD works by causing a very early abortion as it prevents implantation. I’m not sure the advice of that priest is sound. Seems to me a man whose wife had the IUD would be well within his rights to withhold sex.

Vasectomy works by preventing conception in the first place so it’s an entirely different thing.
 
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I don’t want to place blame on anyone here, but, did you get married in a Catholic Church? Did you have the Catholic pre-marital counseling? What did you think was going to happen with him regarding children / birth control issues? Did you consider that this was going to be a problem when you married someone who wasn’t Catholic?
Are you familiar with the concept of the “marital debt”? I know everyone pretends like it’s not a thing anymore but I think it’s why it’s a sin to withhold the “marital embrace” right?

 
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I hope this won’t be interpreted as an attack on the OP — I don’t mean it that way — but the question of birth control, and how conception issues will be handled throughout the marriage, are things that need to be gotten out of the way before the wedding. If the non-observant partner won’t agree never to resort to contraception or sterilization, then why would a faithful Catholic go through with it and marry that person in the first place?. That’s just asking for trouble. For couples even remotely considering marriage, if they are Catholics faithful to the magisterium, these issues should come up naturally, even before the engagement.

Questions of “how many children and when?” also need to be made explicit and gotten out of the way before the wedding. This is one thing I had to learn the hard way.
 
These are all things that should be discussed prior to the wedding. However, people do change. It is to be expected. It is why we have as many divorces as we have among other things. We shouldn’t shame people for growing, maturing, changing their worldview, etc. It is what we are intended to do as human beings.
 
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JMMJ said:
These are all things that should be discussed prior to the wedding. However, people do change. It is to be expected. It is why we have as many divorces as we have among other things. We shouldn’t shame people for growing, maturing, changing their worldview, etc. It is what we are intended to do as human beings.
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I don’t think “shame” is the word, but I would want to get it out of the way before marrying someone, whether there is going to be an expectation of committing mortal sin if it is the way to get out of trouble or stay out of trouble during the marriage — “will you be willing to steal or embezzle if the money ever gets too tight and we need to pay the bills?”, “will you engage in deceptive business practices to keep the family business afloat if there’s no other way?”, “will you use a contraceptive, or will you expect me to use one, if we ever get to the point where we simply can’t have any more?”.
 
No. It categorically does not make you guilty. Please hear us, sister. If you withhold sex from your husband solely on the basis of his (by then, past) vasectomy, that will not be because the Church teaches against it… That will be your private choice, made for your own private reasons.

With love, regardless of what you choose, please do not unnecessarily scandalize your husband against the Catholic Church by telling him the Church is responsible for your choice to abstain from relations with him. It isn’t.

I can only imagine how frustrating it may feel to ‘reward’ someone for a bad act, if that’s what you feel like you’d be doing by continuing relations with your husband after this. And your situation sounds tremendously difficult, to me (he hasn’t even kissed you in 20 years? Won’t hold your hand?). At the same time, please consider what the Church actually teaches on this subject, so you at least know what it is. And please don’t misinform your husband about it, regardless of anything else.
 
I think that’s the real crux of the matter, not whether or not she would be committing a sin, the op feels like her husband would feel like he’s just good to go if she allows it, or that she caved under his ongoing pressure and that he would see is some kind of victorious reward.

as for the marital debt, yes, it’s a serious teaching, however, I am not sure if a person would be obligated under these kinds of circumstances, the op certainly did the right thing by refusing to sin herself.

but as others have pointed out, there are far bigger problems with the marriage then just the sex
 
I imagine you’re right – and at the same time this moves it, for me, out of the realm of Christian difficulty (regarding the ethics of a specific act on its own), and into the realm of a struggle for control, to sort of ‘force’ her husband to endure ‘justice’ in this life, commensurate with his sins. And to me, that’s not forgiveness, and that’s also putting too heavy a burden on her own shoulders (not just her husband’s). Treating it as her responsibility to mete out ‘justice’ in this life, and try to ‘force’ him into externally ethical behaviours (regardless of his internal disposition). Her husband is responsible for his own choices. She’s only responsible for hers.

I know that in a sense we are our brother’s keeper… and at the same time, we cannot control those around us, and basic human psychology seems to suggest that the harder we push, the harder they’ll resist. It seems to me (though I’m in no position to suggest it, and don’t know their situation in enough detail) that one of them may need to ‘break’ first, and start forgiving first. Being the more merciful one. Ministering to the brokenness in the other one. Meeting the other person where they are at, and helping the other person to feel loved THERE – so that gradually, they may come to actual internal remorse and repentance about any sins (sexual or otherwise), rather than treating each other like enemies in a wrestling match.

Since the OP’s the only one we’re talking to here, my suggesting is that she be the one to forgive first, and to start to serve her husband in mercy. Not try to apply ‘just’ judgment for his sin. If the husband were posting here, obviously I’d have some suggestions for him, too.
 
Puppy said:
This is my thinking as well. By agreeing to have sex with him after the vasectomy even though he’s the one doing it and not me and certainly without my approval, doesn’t that make me guilty too? It seems like it should. He full well knows the church’s teaching on the matter. He’s hoping I’ll change my mind, and that places me in a moral predicament
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He isn’t catholic and isn’t bound by catholic law, as far as I know. If his denomination says it isn’t a sin then I don’t think he would be fully culpable sin-wise, and you certainly wouldn’t be. Although if it were me I would wonder why he wouldn’t touch you or be affectionate for years, but now he’s suddenly interested again? Is there any chance he’s been with other women over the years? I would probably want to rule that out before being intimate again, from a health perspective…I agree with others that your marriage is extremely damaged and it will take a lot of work to get it back. It does seem that he married you Selfishly never intending to allow you to follow the tenets of your faith so you really may have grounds for an annulment if it doesn’t work out.
 
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