Husband kissed another woman

[thewanderer]

Separation, and yes, even divorce, are perfectly moral options depending on the particular circumstances. It is wrong to claim otherwise. People suggested that the OP speak with a Catholic marriage counselor as, from the limited details that we have, there is a possibility that the OP’s situation may fall into one of the categories that allow for a separation. There is nothing un-Catholic about that advice at all.

 

[thewanderer]

BandJ,

My heart hurts for you, so please know I’m praying for your marriage to overcome this.

Here’s my question:

Why is he giving you the cold shoulder for days following his betrayal? Just because he doesn’t remember it? If this was me, I would be horrified at my actions (and even frightened at the fact that I didn’t remember it). My last impulse would be to display coldness or anger at my spouse! I would be apologizing profusely and because I would be scared out of my wits to have done something so awful to someone I loved, without having any recollection, I would take steps to get help in three ways: 1) Avoid drinking 2) Insist on counseling for myself first and foremost, and with my spouse 3) Change my circle of friends.
I think his anger with you is bizarre, misplaced, and as another poster commented, a deflection technique.

Also, this!!!

The real problem is not just that he got drunk and kissed another woman, or even that this happened twice. The real problem is that he doesn’t care about his wife, he belittles and disregards her legitimate feelings and gets angry at her for having those feelings. That is not in any respect acceptable behavior. This marriage has serious issues and unless the OP’s husband changes his attitude and begins to work on fixing the marriage it will not last. Nothing the OP does can fix this marriage unless her husband steps up to the plate and starts caring about her and her feelings.

 

[EasterJoy]

Seven months ago…he claimed he blacked out and doesn’t remember anything. I do believe him, because I have never seen him that drunk. I began to explained to him what he had done and he cut me off, said a quick I am sorry and just glossed over the issue. This was 7 months ago and because my husband has said when I bring up feelings I have that aren’t pleasant, he thinks it drives a wedge between us. So I have internalized the entire incident and have tried to work through them on my own. I did not want to tell anyone what happened, because I do not want his image tarnished…

This weekend we went on a vacation with other friends…He went out… They were drinking and I found out and got the horrible jealous… When I got there…One even offered to perform an act on my husband as I was standing right there. I was mortified that he laughed and did not shut her down instantly. He wanted to continue to hang out with these women and his friend…I was terrified if I left what would happen since he had been drinking so much. When I got him alone, I explained to him why I was there and that didn’t he think it was enough time with these two girls and I reminded him of the night with the other woman, we never really discussed. He got angry with me told me to chill out and that I will never let him live that down, that he kissed her…He then accused me of not trusting him and I agreed and said “with reason”.

It was at that moment I realized that I am "that " wife, someone I never thought I would be. A wife who couldn’t trust her husband in all situations…

After I explained my feelings to him this weekend, he has given me the cold shoulder for 2 days now. I don’t know what to do. I don’t know how to bring this up…

1. If you blacked out and he tried to tell you what you had done, how would you react? More to the point, would you think it important to show clearly that you are contrite?
2. If you blacked out and insulted your husband right in front of him, what would you be willing to do to make sure it never happened again?
3. If you drank to the point that you blacked out and did things that you disavowed later, then drank again to the point of being willing to see him insulted by how you let another man proposition you right in front of him, would you expect him to trust you around either alcohol or other men, let alone both at once?
4. Do you think it would help your marriage to stonewall him when he confronted you with what you had done?

IOW, ask him to put the shoe on the other foot., and then really listen to what he has to say. Try to avoid putting him on the defensive with personal attacks (not that you have done that; I mean to help him talk more freely) or extrapolating an isolated behavior into a character trait. If you had done what he has done, how would he handle it? How would he want you to handle it? How does he think it could be best handled so that it would not happen again–never again, because this is not acceptable. It needs to not have happened at all, and now it really needs to not happen again.

Consider the book “The 7 Principles for Making Marriage Work” or another of the marriage books by John Gottman and his collaborators. Perhaps the issue here is how to communicate in a way that won’t lead to further estrangement. If you are short on cash, the library usually has at least one of his books.

 

[BandJ]

1. If you blacked out and he tried to tell you what you had done, how would you react? More to the point, would you think it important to show clearly that you are contrite?
2. If you blacked out and insulted your husband right in front of him, what would you be willing to do to make sure it never happened again?
3. If you drank to the point that you blacked out and did things that you disavowed later, then drank again to the point of being willing to see him insulted by how you let another man proposition you right in front of him, would you expect him to trust you around either alcohol or other men, let alone both at once?
4. Do you think it would help your marriage to stonewall him when he confronted you with what you had done?

IOW, ask him to put the shoe on the other foot., and then really listen to what he has to say. Try to avoid putting him on the defensive with personal attacks (not that you have done that; I mean to help him talk more freely) or extrapolating an isolated behavior into a character trait. If you had done what he has done, how would he handle it? How would he want you to handle it? How does he think it could be best handled so that it would not happen again–never again, because this is not acceptable. It needs to not have happened at all, and now it really needs to not happen again.

Consider the book “The 7 Principles for Making Marriage Work” or another of the marriage books by John Gottman and his collaborators. Perhaps the issue here is how to communicate in a way that won’t lead to further estrangement. If you are short on cash, the library usually has at least one of his books.

Thank you, I took your words to heart. Very good advice.

 

[BandJ]

An update on when I sat him down to talk about this… It didn’t happen the way I had hoped. Before I could even start he, started with a list of things as to why he was justifiable giving me the cold shoulder the last couple days and that what I did last weekend was awful to make him feel like he was a spouse that could not be trusted.

It was hard to even get my feelings out because he spent most of the time saying that I would never let him live it down and that he feels like he’ll forever have to pay for it. I tried to explain, it’s because I held it in this long that I am reacting this way, and I own that I made a mistake by holding this in. That I should have addressed it immediately. I explained that I felt like there was no remorse for what he had done and that it was just chalked up to being too drunk and a hall pass should be given. I explained I just feel like there is a fracture in the trust and I’m trying to get through and to get through I need to see that there is a feeling of repentance for what took place on his part.

He then went on to say he felt mortified and awful about what he had done and felt awful about himself for 2 weeks after and felt like I should have known he felt that way… I said how on earth would I have known when there was only a fast hey, sorry about that and that was it. How do I know what is going on in your head when your actions speak different? There was no attempt to apologize? he thought that by bringing it up it would bring me more pain. (What???) I makes no sense to me.

The main part about this entire conversation is the words, “I am so sorry of what I have done to you, I can only imagine what this must have felt like. I am so sorry I hurt you.” never was said by him. The conversation was more about how my jealousy last weekend was out of line and that he felt “uncomfortable” when the woman were talking the way they were to him, but then again his actions spoke different. I just wanted him to see where I was coming from and it was met with this is your problem, you created this issue that shouldn’t be an issue and this is in your head.

I resigned to the fact that I can see a pride issue going on for him. He is unwilling to accept his part in what he had done and how he hurt me by his actions. He even said, I’m not sure you will ever trust me again and not sure how you get past this? But it was said in a tone, like good luck with that, hope you can work it out. Even after this attitude, I made a huge mistake and just wanted the hurt to stop and acted as though I was the one who did something wrong. Apologized to him, said let’s just move forward. I will never say anything about this again and let’s just move on. Forget this and be what we were before. A reaction by me I thought would bring joy to him…

That’s when he completely rejected me. Said things between us are now different. He said, I thought he is someone he is not and he can’t just go back to thinking things are fine. He got up and said I’ll see you at home. Ever since, we are now living as roommates. No 'I love you’s" just hey how’s it going and complete rejection when I even try to act like his wife.

So before all you people jump down my throat, I get it. Why am I the one being punished, why am I the one acting like the person who did this? My way of handling this is more than wrong. I know this because now I feel more alone, more rejected, like a door mat and just plain awful about myself. I feel so insecure about myself, I just can’t believe I put this much power into someone who took it for granted. I can’t believe I did so much to try and win back his approval when I know it should be the other way around. I know this is not in my head, which he kept trying to get me to think, I can see the bigger picture. Whether it’s he’s regretful of his decision to marry me, whether he has other issues going because he is middle aged, whatever his motivations… but I know this is his problem, not mine. I didn’t do anything to break the trust and I took more than acceptance for my part in letting this build and how I reacted this weekend. But knowing this was how I felt, and to feel like he is “kicking me while I am down”, I think I am receiving a message loud and clear.

I didn’t even suggest counseling because I couldn’t even speak anymore when he rejected me and walked away. I’m trying to not have my heart be hardened by this. Because I have been the most vulnerable I have ever been with anyone as I have with him and thought I was safe to do so and I couldn’t have been more wrong. He is just walking around like nothing happened and like I said, treating me like a roommate. I’m going to the counselor for me. To get past the hurt and rebuild myself, because obviously I’m blinded by my emotion and need an objective 3rd party to help me work through this so I can make me right again. I made an appointment and hope it can help me.

As far as my husband, he’s going to have to decide he wants to work on our marriage. I can’t force him, I can’t control him or his reactions. I’m not saying I’m divorcing him right away, but I am going to separate and work on this anger, hurt and self loathing in me, so I can even begin to be a person who could even be married. If he choses to not work on it, I will take it from there. I can’t force him to love me or want to be with me and he needs to work on his issues or this will be nothing but a life of misery for us both and that is not what God had planned for us and our marriage. Please keep me in your prayers. Your advice has been comforting and has made me think a lot about this from different angles I couldn’t see.

 

[bitterhope]

All I can say is I am so very sad for you and you deserve better. I am sorry I have no other advice, but I assure you of my prayers. This is not in your head and any decent husband would have never allowed these things to happen. A good man may have fallen once when drunk, but been mortified of it and worked hard to make up for it. He certainly would never have been allowing a single woman talk to him the way he was doing (and why didn’t he walk away from her/them?). And there is no way that he would have turned this around against the hurt wife. Maybe this could be some encouragement. My marriage was at a time very lonely and we never spoke to one another unless we HAD to. Nothing ugly like that occurred, we just were very withdrawn from one another and stressed beyond what we could handle. If you met us today you would not believe that because we are very close now and have a terrific relationship. If we can build what we have now out of what we had before then I believe nearly every relationship has hope. Pray for your husband and for your marriage. I will pray too.

 

[Phemie]

You said both these instances have happened within the past 8 months or so, and you’ve only been married for a year. If there were truly no signs of this behavior during the 15 years you dated (and you weren’t just ignoring or overlooking the red flags at the time), then what has changed since you married? What makes him think this behavior is okay now, when it wasn’t while you dated?
Will pray for you.

What changed? The cynic in me says that the minute they got married he knew she’d find it harder to walk out.

 

[barboza21]

I am so sorry for what you are going through. I myself am going through something too with my husband.

I don’t have any advice.

I will pray for you.

 

[Evania]

I’m so very sorry…

His response of shutting down even further and rejecting your proposal to move past an issue that he was at fault with, suggests to me that he may be actively trying to make you into the “bad guy” so he can leave his marriage and yet feel justified.

 

[chevalier]

What’s there to trust him on if he already acts like he wants to have two or more women?

Kissing friends as friends, which is similar to kissing relatives (e.g. mother, daughter, sister) as relatives is obviously okay, as is hugging etc. In some cultures and some specific families or individuals, hugging could even go as far as playing (innocently) with someone’s hair.

But a long kiss, with hands in the other person’s hair, what the heck?

One can’t have two women, sorry.

 

[WestonGrant]

I would definately try to find a good Catholic marriage counselor. I think it’s too hard to handle this in the context of a forum like this. I can completely understand why you are so upset.

From what I hear, though, finding a good Catholic marriage counselor isn’t all that easy. Be careful. Ask around. If your diocese is good, maybe check there?

Best of luck to you.

 

[lily22]

He is completely disrespecting you. I would seriously, figure out an exit plan on this guy because it’s going from bad to worse. He’s not improving. He’s getting worse!

 

[DAML72]

Fantastic advice. We have only been married 1 1/2 years, but together for 16. I am in no way wanting a divorce in any way shape or form. When I said my vows, I meant them. I know this is the worse part. I’m just trying to find the path to get through this. Your words are what I needed to hear and I can see now I need to talk with my priest and speak with him and insist on communication. Please Lord fill my mouth with the words to say. I love him very much and I thought we had built a foundation on faith, but these things throw up a very large bump and I pray we can work through this. I know people say this had to have happened before, it has not. He has been nothing short of amazing. I just never saw this coming and maybe that’s why it hurts so much. I just need to do something because holding it in has obviously made it 10x worse.

Oh goodness. I don’t have time to sift through all the responses right now (I have to go to church), so please forgive me if I am completely out of the flow of this thread. I see so many red flags going up. Do you have children together? If not, I would consider getting out of this relationship. I think you are in denial about your husband’s drinking problem. I also see emotional abuse going on. (After kissing a woman in front of you and being confronted about it, he should be apologizing to you, not giving you the cold shoulder. I’d be willing to bet he knew exactly what he was doing - both times. My ex-husband was like that. It took me many years after our divorce to even get to a place where I could understand/accept that his behavior was many times not mistake, but aimed at hurting me, enraging me, or making me jealous).

At the very least, you need to put your foot down. There should be no groveling, no apologizing on your part. You may even consider threatening to leave if he doesn’t get it together - if he’s going to be committed to this marriage, then he might need a bit of a shocker. If you enable his behavior, he will keep doing it.

 

[DAML72]

An update on when I sat him down to talk about this… It didn’t happen the way I had hoped. Before I could even start he, started with a list of things as to why he was justifiable giving me the cold shoulder the last couple days and that what I did last weekend was awful to make him feel like he was a spouse that could not be trusted.

It was hard to even get my feelings out because he spent most of the time saying that I would never let him live it down and that he feels like he’ll forever have to pay for it. I tried to explain, it’s because I held it in this long that I am reacting this way, and I own that I made a mistake by holding this in. That I should have addressed it immediately. I explained that I felt like there was no remorse for what he had done and that it was just chalked up to being too drunk and a hall pass should be given. I explained I just feel like there is a fracture in the trust and I’m trying to get through and to get through I need to see that there is a feeling of repentance for what took place on his part.

He then went on to say he felt mortified and awful about what he had done and felt awful about himself for 2 weeks after and felt like I should have known he felt that way… I said how on earth would I have known when there was only a fast hey, sorry about that and that was it. How do I know what is going on in your head when your actions speak different? There was no attempt to apologize? he thought that by bringing it up it would bring me more pain. (What???) I makes no sense to me.

The main part about this entire conversation is the words, “I am so sorry of what I have done to you, I can only imagine what this must have felt like. I am so sorry I hurt you.” never was said by him. The conversation was more about how my jealousy last weekend was out of line and that he felt “uncomfortable” when the woman were talking the way they were to him, but then again his actions spoke different. I just wanted him to see where I was coming from and it was met with this is your problem, you created this issue that shouldn’t be an issue and this is in your head.

I resigned to the fact that I can see a pride issue going on for him. He is unwilling to accept his part in what he had done and how he hurt me by his actions. He even said, I’m not sure you will ever trust me again and not sure how you get past this? But it was said in a tone, like good luck with that, hope you can work it out. Even after this attitude, I made a huge mistake and just wanted the hurt to stop and acted as though I was the one who did something wrong. Apologized to him, said let’s just move forward. I will never say anything about this again and let’s just move on. Forget this and be what we were before. A reaction by me I thought would bring joy to him…

That’s when he completely rejected me. Said things between us are now different. He said, I thought he is someone he is not and he can’t just go back to thinking things are fine. He got up and said I’ll see you at home. Ever since, we are now living as roommates. No 'I love you’s" just hey how’s it going and complete rejection when I even try to act like his wife.

So before all you people jump down my throat, I get it. Why am I the one being punished, why am I the one acting like the person who did this? My way of handling this is more than wrong. I know this because now I feel more alone, more rejected, like a door mat and just plain awful about myself. I feel so insecure about myself, I just can’t believe I put this much power into someone who took it for granted. I can’t believe I did so much to try and win back his approval when I know it should be the other way around. I know this is not in my head, which he kept trying to get me to think, I can see the bigger picture. Whether it’s he’s regretful of his decision to marry me, whether he has other issues going because he is middle aged, whatever his motivations… but I know this is his problem, not mine. I didn’t do anything to break the trust and I took more than acceptance for my part in letting this build and how I reacted this weekend. But knowing this was how I felt, and to feel like he is “kicking me while I am down”, I think I am receiving a message loud and clear.

Get a copy of the book ‘The Emotionally Abusive Relationship’ by Beverly Engel. Also, get your hands on any book by Lundy Bancroft that appeals to you. I’m not going to tell you what to do, but I will tell you that it most likely won’t get better, just worse. And I will pray for you and your situation.