Husband says we'll have time for us later

[Kurisu35712]

Sadly, it appears from these comments that some Christians no longer believe in the Bible. The New Testament has been around for more than 1500 years and the OT even longer. The Bible is our guide to how to live. So insulting messages about “getting real” and dismissing what the Bible teaches indicates that many Christians are not getting the good news which the Holy Word of God has brought to us. For centuries Christians around the world have relied upon the sacred teachings of Holy Scriptures. Here is what Holy Scripture says:
1 Corinthians 11:3
But I want you to realize that the head of every man is Christ, and the head of the woman is man, and the head of Christ is God.
Ephesians 5:24
Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit to their husbands in everything.
1 Corinthians 7:34
There is difference also between a wife and a virgin. The unmarried woman cares for the things of the Lord, that she may be holy both in body and in spirit: but she that is married cares for the things of the world, how she may please her husband.

I don’t think a Catholic should throw out and ignore the divinely inspired word of God.

Catholics also believe in Tradition. And I don’t think “wifely submission” means the same thing to a Catholic as they do to the rather fundamentalist view you seem to hold. Christ is the Head of the Church, yes. And He also gave His life for that Church and serves it with unconditional love to this day. A truly Catholic husband neither forces nor expects submission to his will. He loves his wife with the same self-sacrificing love Christ has for all of us. For centuries, all Christians around the world were Roman Catholic and followed the same Church Christ established himself 2 millennia ago, which does not demand wifely submission. Rather, a husband’s love and sacrifice is demanded of us.

 

[Kurisu35712]

There are also passages in Scripture which say that it is an abomination for a man to lie with a man, and this is ignored by proponents of SS marriage. Similarly, people ignore things like: Thou shalt not commit adultery. The reasoning is that no one was hurt, because it was done in secret. I suppose that you can always find reasons to ignore things in Scripture which apply to your particular case.

No faithful Catholic can agree with SS marriage, especially in a sacramental sense, and any Catholic who justifies adultery with such a weak and flimsy excuse should probably make their first priority a good confession. A Catholic wife does not submit because she is told to by the Bible. She submits herself to her husband because he likewise submits himself to her. It is a mutual relationship of sacrifice and selflessness, not an authoritative position of superior to subordinate.

 

[Tomdstone]

Sorry, no offense intended.

It’s OK. I appreciate your responses really. We are just discussing back and forth different points of view, at least that is what I intended.
I do think though that in this case the wife should look at things more optimistically since some men do not have good friends that they can rely on.

 

[AnnArbor]

It’s OK. I appreciate your responses really. We are just discussing back and forth different points of view, at least that is what I intended.
I do think though that in this case the wife should look at things more optimistically since some men do not have good friends that they can rely on.

That I might agree with.

I just find the idea of wifely submission to a husband’s any whim to fly in the face of rationality, and it is very hard to imagine God calling us to an irrational position. My husband and I regularly make sacrifices for the other and ‘submit’ our own wills for the other’s happiness and well-being. But we are equals. Both created in the image of God. I would be unlikely to respond positively to a “I’m the man, I make the final decisions” argument.

 

[VeritasLuxMea]

Sadly, it appears from these comments that some Christians no longer believe in the Bible. The New Testament has been around for more than 1500 years and the OT even longer. The Bible is our guide to how to live. So insulting messages about “getting real” and dismissing what the Bible teaches indicates that many Christians are not getting the good news which the Holy Word of God has brought to us. For centuries Christians around the world have relied upon the sacred teachings of Holy Scriptures. Here is what Holy Scripture says:
1 Corinthians 11:3
But I want you to realize that the head of every man is Christ, and the head of the woman is man, and the head of Christ is God.
Ephesians 5:24
Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit to their husbands in everything.
1 Corinthians 7:34
There is difference also between a wife and a virgin. The unmarried woman cares for the things of the Lord, that she may be holy both in body and in spirit: but she that is married cares for the things of the world, how she may please her husband.

I don’t think a Catholic should throw out and ignore the divinely inspired word of God.

FWIW, the Bible also has a dude living inside of a whale, God sending bears to kill a bunch of kids because they called someone bald, God demanding the human sacrifice of a child, God sending the devil to torture his most faithful servant and inexplicably no mentions of dinosaurs at all. Again, just FWIW, there’s lots more where that came from.

But just to humor you and pretend that we’re fundamentalists and that there’s nothing at all in the Bible that’s out of this world crazy, let’s roll with your Ephesians passage. You specifically cited Ephesians 5:23/24. Why not continue to 5:25?

Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ also loved the church and gave Himself up for her.

Does that sound to you like a husband might be called to make sacrifices for his wife? To consider her thoughts, feelings, etc. when making a decision?

AnnArbor:

But we are equals. Both created in the image of God. I would be unlikely to respond positively to a “I’m the man, I make the final decisions” argument.

Ha. I wonder if these are the same people that talk about how women can find “true feminism” within the Church. True feminism = submit to the whim of your man.

 

[Maine52]

You specifically cited Ephesians 5:23/24. Why not continue to 5:25?

Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ also loved the church and gave Himself up for her.

Does that sound to you like a husband might be called to make sacrifices for his wife? To consider her thoughts, feelings, etc. when making a decision?

Exactly. Yes, the man is the head of the woman, but if Christ is the head of the man, then the man is also supposed to love the woman and make sacrifices for her as Christ sacrificed Himself for the Church. Therefore, the “wives submit to your husbands” verse is not a free pass for a husband to do whatever he wants while his wife just cheers up and goes along with it regardless of her own thoughts and feelings.

 

[Serap]

DH and I had discussed doing something special for our 10th anniversary next year and I suggested going, just the 2 of us, back to our honeymoon spot a few hours away. He seemed to really like that idea . . .Till a better offer came along. His friend (who lives in a really neat big city) invited us up for a visit and asked to extend the invitiation to my BIL and his wife. I think this would be a really fun trip and I know DH would LOVE to go, but he said if we do this trip, we wouldn’t be able to afford our anniversary trip. I told him we have to prioritize time for just the two of us, to which he replied, “We’ll have time for us later.”

Now, I know he didn’t mean it the way I’m taking it, I know that he’s really just excited to go on a ‘real’ vacation that doesn’t include kids, but I am heartbroken. I know that the compromise would be to carve out a day on our trip just for us and let the other couples know what’s up - I don’t think they would mind. BUT, I know that DH will not do this b/c he doesn’t want to miss a minute with his friend and the big city.

And when DH says later, that pretty much means never. I get that I’m not as much fun to hang out with as his friend and brother. I think there will be hard feelings either way - me feeling slighted out of a chance for alone time if we go on the big city trip or DH feeling resentful for trading out a fun trip for one less fun. I’m just praying that, without any misfortune befalling anyone, that this offer falls through or we just can’t get everyone’s schedules to come together so DH won’t feel as bad about missing out or having to make the tough decision of which trip to choose.

You gotta tell him to put aside one evening in the city for the 2 of you. Men sometimes need to be hit over the head or they won’t get it.

Think of Everybody Loves Raymond

Or how about an afternoon instead of an evening. Go to a spa together in a hotel for an afternoon. Begin researching ideas and give him 3 options.

Tell his this is really important to you

 

[Serap]

The husband is the head of the family, and the wife should go along with his ideas on this.

spiritual head you mean.

a good husband will also respect his wife’s needs

 

[JLCecilia]

I say “I know” b/c I’m not good with social situations, I’ve bombed time and time again, usually involving sticking my foot in my mouth. And I’m not as uninhibited as DH and his friends, BIL and his wife. There will no doubt be a night out on the town involved (i.e., clubbing/drinking) which makes me extremely uncomfortable. There is no ‘talking’ to DH on this point. I COULD stay behind during that activity, but I know that would make DH upset. No, there is no compromise w/ him on this issue. If I say I’m uncomfortable with something, he will not stand up for me and suggest another activity. He doesn’t want to appear ‘uncool’ in front of his brother or friend. And the thing is, his friend and BIL both know how I feel about this activity.

We’ve been on a trip with cousins to this city before, so I sort of know what to expect. I almost think DH and his brother ought to just go for a guy’s trip. I don’t need to be a tag-along who gets ignored again. Even if I ask for DH to carve out some time for us, I will not have his attention the same way I would if it were just the two of us on our anniversary trip. I don’t think I should set myself up for that kind of disappointment. Truth be told, I probably just have unrealistic expectations for us. It’s not like a trip away together for a few days is going to fix the fact that we don’t spend time together regularly.

I feel like I’m invisible to him probably 95% of the time, why do I need to spend my time and good money (with an audience no less), to only magnify this fact? This is probably, bottom line, how I feel about the whole thing. Call me selfish.

Yes, we’ve been to counseling, I’ve even done one-sided counseling.

 

[JLCecilia]

I feel like giving him the ultimatum that the only way I’ll go is if he starts spending 15 min with me every evening at least 4 days a week to help mend and fortify our relationship.

 

[JLCecilia]

I’m wrapping up a 54-day novena for DH to find work suitable to his talents that would allow me to be a FT SAHM. If he could make what we’re both making now (without our cost of living going up), we’ll save $10k right off the top just in daycare. This would pay for both trips and then some.

 

[CallMeDad]

Sometimes later really does mean later. My wife and I are taking our tenth anniversary trip next January, six months shy of our 14th anniversary. Sometimes it’s just how things work out. Think of it this way: in a good marriage, you can make plans years in advance secure in the knowledge that you will both be around to see the plans through.

 

[KCT]

Sometimes later really does mean later. My wife and I are taking our tenth anniversary trip next January, six months shy of our 14th anniversary. Sometimes it’s just how things work out. Think of it this way: in a good marriage, you can make plans years in advance secure in the knowledge that you will both be around to see the plans through.

Unless, of course, tragedy strikes, in which case they may regret putting it off.

Things happen in life, and we can’t always do what we want, when we want. But postponing something without good reason, and assuming you can do it later, can be a mistake.

What a ‘good reason’ is will vary from couple to couple.

If the OP knows her hubby would really like the big city trip, perhaps as a compromise you can get a firm commitment to do what you want next year. (if he has a history of promising and reneging, then go for the day alone during the trip w/ friends)

 

[Eliza10]

Oh, poor dear Cecilia! I will pray for you.

Sometimes when these complicated problems get posted I have noticed the first post can be “shallow”. Not so in this case. I agree with esieffe,

Marriage counseling is a perfect fit for this situation.

I know you have already tried it, and I have read some of your post before, dear Cecelia. I do not remember how the counseling for you in the past went but I know it can be discouraging and even make things worse with the wrong counselor. In fact that seems more common than not. But with it a whole year away, it looks like an opportunity for some intervention in this decision. Gregory Popcaks counselors can do it on the phone and would be likely to give good practical thoughtful Catholic advice with a problem-solving approach, in a timely manner.

esieffe also said:

If he changes his mind AND his heart, that might be enough, but based on your post, I imagine he might not.

I think he is a guy with some insight here. I agree, at least, it seems it is easier for your husband to get stuck and stay stuck in that kid-at-Christmas attitude, that childish “Its all about me!”, rather than think like a man who lays his life down for his wife.

*Geneses 2:24: "
Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife…" *Also I think it means he needs to leave his brother and his buddies, and cleave unto his wife. Clearly he is not doing this and does not do this or you would have not said some of the very sad things you said, like,

If I say I’m uncomfortable with something, he will not stand up for me and suggest another activity. He doesn’t want to appear ‘uncool’ in front of his brother or friend.

Oh, boy. Wow.

. And the thing is, his friend and BIL both know how I feel about this activity.

But they take the cue from your husband that *you don’t matter? *So, even though they know how you feel, they ignore it, too? Why would you want to share your tenth anniversary with these guys?

I feel like I’m invisible to him probably 95% of the time, why do I need to spend my time and good money (with an audience no less), to only magnify this fact? This is probably, bottom line, how I feel about the whole thing. Call me selfish

Sounds sensible to me. It sounds like your coming along is so he can enjoy* their* company,* not yours. *But if he doesn’t invite you on your anniversary, then he looks like a bad guy. He can bring you along, ignore you, yuk it up and drink with his buddies, and tell you “Later” and he knows he doesn’t have to keep his word. After all, he took you along on his buddy binge! Sounds like that is what you said. Am I right?

Sadly, it sounds like he might even be glad for an excuse to not have to celebrate your anniversary. Hope I’m wrong.

Doing the right thing is not being selfish. If he is not living his vows, then it is wrong, and *you work against his greater good *to co-dependently support his behavior. In marraige you are supposed to help each other to Heaven. Supporting his wrong actions is not helping him get to Heaven. You cannot make him do the right thing if he doesn’t want to, but you don’t have to help him do the wrong things. I would say the truth (if this is the truth for you):

“I don’t want to go on a buddy trip for our anniversary. I don’t want to get drunk or be anywhere near drunks. I want to celebrate our marriage. You and me. If you don’t want to celebrate our marraige with me or put aside your buddies for me then I am very very sorry. I can’t make you. It makes me sad. But you have to choose.”

Don’t expect the truth to be enthusiastically received all the time. Lots of times the truth hurts. But it plants a seed. It might take root.

However, you are better off hearing a solution like this from a Popcak counselor, not me! They will have the best solution to this dilemma, and a* real Catholic* perspective. But your going on this buddy-trip – I don’t see how any counselor would recommend that.

 

[Maine52]

JLCecilia, it seems your husband has the maturity of a middle-schooler. You will need to take a firm stance with him. No, you can’t make him do the right thing, but each time he does the wrong thing, you need to firmly let him know how hurt you are by it and that it is affecting your marriage. Be loving, but stand your ground. Don’t sugar-coat how much his actions hurt you.

 

[Sarcelle]

Sadly, it appears from these comments that some Christians no longer believe in the Bible. The New Testament has been around for more than 1500 years and the OT even longer. The Bible is our guide to how to live. So insulting messages about “getting real” and dismissing what the Bible teaches indicates that many Christians are not getting the good news which the Holy Word of God has brought to us. For centuries Christians around the world have relied upon the sacred teachings of Holy Scriptures. Here is what Holy Scripture says:
1 Corinthians 11:3
But I want you to realize that the head of every man is Christ, and the head of the woman is man, and the head of Christ is God.
Ephesians 5:24
Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit to their husbands in everything.
1 Corinthians 7:34
There is difference also between a wife and a virgin. The unmarried woman cares for the things of the Lord, that she may be holy both in body and in spirit: but she that is married cares for the things of the world, how she may please her husband.

I don’t think a Catholic should throw out and ignore the divinely inspired word of God.

I noticed you left out the verse about a married man aiming to please his wife.

I also noticed you listed your religion as other. Are you making fun of the teaching calling wives to submit to their husbands by presenting a perverted view of the wife as slave and husband as master?

 

[Sarcelle]

I’m wrapping up a 54-day novena for DH to find work suitable to his talents that would allow me to be a FT SAHM. If he could make what we’re both making now (without our cost of living going up), we’ll save $10k right off the top just in daycare. This would pay for both trips and then some.

I am doing a daily rosary for the unemployed and underemployed. I have suffered job losses in the past and I know how soul destroying it can be. I will add keep in mind your intentions in my prayers.

 

[JLCecilia]

Well, if I didn’t want to go before, I REALLY don’t want to go now. DH won’t get his final class finished by year’s end which means an extra $1k in tuition costs, that we CAN’T finance through student loans. It was my intention to pay that much off the top with our tax return just to save on interest and jump start paying off his loans, but now that’s shot. I told DH that was a good enough reason to NOT go to Chicago, but he still wants to go. I thought about telling him once more that he and his brother could go or just he go alone to see his buddy, but my BIL wouldn’t make that big of a trip withoutt his wife and DH doesn’t want to be the only one going stag.

On the way to one of the family Christmases this weekend I told DH that we had been invited to a New Year’s Eve party. When I told him who it was, all he remembers is one bad moment the husband had and he’s written him off entirely - he’s never even spoken to the guy. Looking back on the conversation now, I can’t help wondering if I wasn’t inadverdantly picking a fight. I got frustrated that he shoots down every invitation for us to go visit with other families and have adult time while the kids play (which I think is nicer than having to arrange child care). Maybe it’s b/c they all happen to go to church and he doesn’t want to be the odd man out. Nevermind that I almost always go along with “his” crowd where I’m the ONLY church-goer and thus the odd man out.

He went on to say that he doesn’t like my friends, but really he just means my newest friend. She and her DH have always invited our whole family over, but he has never gone with us. They just don’t fit his mold. I hang out w/ my friend a lot b/c she has the same # of kids as me and they all get along. I don’t have to arrange child care to go hang out w/ my friend! He actually said “You know I don’t like her, but I guess I don’t have a say in who my kids spend time with.” Sheesh! If he were half as motivated as me and my friend to find fun ways to spend time with our kids, maybe we’d hang out at home more. He just wants to put the kids in front of a movie and go hide out in the computer room. I think refusing to spend time as a family is his way of continuing to drive home the point that he never wanted this many kids.

I’m trying hard to go off the deep end and just tell him forget it all; you do your thing and me and the kids will do ours. But that’s basically what we’ve done for the last 9 years in practice, even if we’ve never made a verbal declaration of it.

 

[Xantippe]

Well, if I didn’t want to go before, I REALLY don’t want to go now. DH won’t get his final class finished by year’s end which means an extra $1k in tuition costs, that we CAN’T finance through student loans. It was my intention to pay that much off the top with our tax return just to save on interest and jump start paying off his loans, but now that’s shot. I told DH that was a good enough reason to NOT go to Chicago, but he still wants to go. I thought about telling him once more that he and his brother could go or just he go alone to see his buddy, but my BIL wouldn’t make that big of a trip withoutt his wife and DH doesn’t want to be the only one going stag.

On the way to one of the family Christmases this weekend I told DH that we had been invited to a New Year’s Eve party. When I told him who it was, all he remembers is one bad moment the husband had and he’s written him off entirely - he’s never even spoken to the guy. Looking back on the conversation now, I can’t help wondering if I wasn’t inadverdantly picking a fight. I got frustrated that he shoots down every invitation for us to go visit with other families and have adult time while the kids play (which I think is nicer than having to arrange child care). Maybe it’s b/c they all happen to go to church and he doesn’t want to be the odd man out. Nevermind that I almost always go along with “his” crowd where I’m the ONLY church-goer and thus the odd man out.

He went on to say that he doesn’t like my friends, but really he just means my newest friend. She and her DH have always invited our whole family over, but he has never gone with us. They just don’t fit his mold. I hang out w/ my friend a lot b/c she has the same # of kids as me and they all get along. I don’t have to arrange child care to go hang out w/ my friend! He actually said “You know I don’t like her, but I guess I don’t have a say in who my kids spend time with.” Sheesh! If he were half as motivated as me and my friend to find fun ways to spend time with our kids, maybe we’d hang out at home more. He just wants to put the kids in front of a movie and go hide out in the computer room. I think refusing to spend time as a family is his way of continuing to drive home the point that he never wanted this many kids.

I’m trying hard to go off the deep end and just tell him forget it all; you do your thing and me and the kids will do ours. But that’s basically what we’ve done for the last 9 years in practice, even if we’ve never made a verbal declaration of it.

My husband and I have just started reading John Gottman’s “The Relationship Cure: A 5 Step Guide to Strengthening Your Marriage, Family, and Friendships.”

I think you should get it (maybe from the library if you don’t have $10?) and read it with your husband. It’s really good so far.

gottman.com/shop/the-relationship-cure/

 

[Serap]

Well, if I didn’t want to go before, I REALLY don’t want to go now. DH won’t get his final class finished by year’s end which means an extra $1k in tuition costs, that we CAN’T finance through student loans. It was my intention to pay that much off the top with our tax return just to save on interest and jump start paying off his loans, but now that’s shot. I told DH that was a good enough reason to NOT go to Chicago, but he still wants to go. I thought about telling him once more that he and his brother could go or just he go alone to see his buddy, but my BIL wouldn’t make that big of a trip withoutt his wife and DH doesn’t want to be the only one going stag.

On the way to one of the family Christmases this weekend I told DH that we had been invited to a New Year’s Eve party. When I told him who it was, all he remembers is one bad moment the husband had and he’s written him off entirely - he’s never even spoken to the guy. Looking back on the conversation now, I can’t help wondering if I wasn’t inadverdantly picking a fight. I got frustrated that he shoots down every invitation for us to go visit with other families and have adult time while the kids play (which I think is nicer than having to arrange child care). Maybe it’s b/c they all happen to go to church and he doesn’t want to be the odd man out. Nevermind that I almost always go along with “his” crowd where I’m the ONLY church-goer and thus the odd man out.

He went on to say that he doesn’t like my friends, but really he just means my newest friend. She and her DH have always invited our whole family over, but he has never gone with us. They just don’t fit his mold. I hang out w/ my friend a lot b/c she has the same # of kids as me and they all get along. I don’t have to arrange child care to go hang out w/ my friend! He actually said “You know I don’t like her, but I guess I don’t have a say in who my kids spend time with.” Sheesh! If he were half as motivated as me and my friend to find fun ways to spend time with our kids, maybe we’d hang out at home more. He just wants to put the kids in front of a movie and go hide out in the computer room. I think refusing to spend time as a family is his way of continuing to drive home the point that he never wanted this many kids.

I’m trying hard to go off the deep end and just tell him forget it all; you do your thing and me and the kids will do ours. But that’s basically what we’ve done for the last 9 years in practice, even if we’ve never made a verbal declaration of it.

I don’t mean to minimize your pain BC I can relate to what you are saying.

Being a wife and mom myself also, I often get stumped on my husband’s faults and deficits. When 2 people get married, its two dysfunctional people coming together as one and then they buy a house and make babies. They have differing opinions on everything from paying bills to how many kids they want.

Imperfect marriage unions are a lot of work and when us moms/wives feel we are carrying a bigger load, we begin keeping score. When we do that, we often score in our own favor…then we feel overwhelmed and we get real mad! Grrrrrrrr!

Husbands suck!

Ask yourself…how will you look back on this in 20 years time? Will it still be a big deal?

If you don’t want to go to Chicago and it means that much, tell him you are not going. He’ll have to deal with your decision and you’ll have to deal with his disappointment.

As for friends, its normal to have differing opinions about people. Keep your friends if you like them…he doesn’t have to be part of the equation.