husband won't work

[Feanaro_s_Wife]

Yeah, it’s nice to be a SAHM. You don’t ever have to worry about who’s watching your kids. But please don’t pretend that it’s always best, it’s always the superior choice, that there aren’t trade-offs for both the kids and the working father.

**
I’m not pretending anything. All situations are different. If your mom had gone to work part time (as you wish) it would have been so that your dad could spend more time at home. It would have been a good choice for your particular family…

there is a far different impact on a child who’s mom goes to work so that daddy can spend more time with him or her than a mommy who goes to work because her career takes priority over family (just as when a man puts his career ahead of his family).

what I can’t seem to get through clearly enough is that I am ONLY referring to women who make selfish choices because they have bought into the lie that they can do it all and have it all. And the child is the one who pays. And yes, moms who choose to stay home can also be selfish…**

 

[SeekerJen]

**
I’m not pretending anything. All situations are different. If your mom had gone to work part time (as you wish) it would have been so that your dad could spend more time at home. It would have been a good choice for your particular family…

there is a far different impact on a child who’s mom goes to work so that daddy can spend more time with him or her than a mommy who goes to work because her career takes priority over family (just as when a man puts his career ahead of his family).

what I can’t seem to get through clearly enough is that I am ONLY referring to women who make selfish choices because they have bought into the lie that they can do it all and have it all. And the child is the one who pays. And yes, moms who choose to stay home can also be selfish…**

Malia,

The second part of my comment was not directed at you. I can see how you would think it was, and I apologize for the confusion.

I don’t think my mother was selfish in choosing to stay home, nor was my father selfish in working so many hours. They were both raised in very traditional families where dad worked and mom stayed home. However, the difference was that they were raised in the 50s. Their fathers worked more normal hours. There was more community support. It was still possible for most families to survive on one income. And my parents were both child number six of seven, so their parents had all of those older siblings helping out. I think my parents both assumed that the traditional set up was how it should be. They were doing what they thought was best. Unfortunately in the 1980s economy, it put major stress on their marriage and took a huge toll on my relationship with my dad.

 

[whatevergirl]

**I understand what you’re saying Malia, I’m not sure if they buy into a lie though. I think it’s more that some women get on a fast moving train…bound for college…bound for a career…and when kids are part of their lives…they don’t know how to get off that fast moving train, without letting people down. It would seem that an instinctive choice for most parents, would be to have mom or dad at home. But, if these things were never discussed, and that train is just fast moving to buy bigger and better houses and toys, etc…(yes there are couples out there like this, not moms, Malia–couples) they just miss the young years before they know it.

See, it’s not solely a mother’s choice, it’s a couple’s choice, laregly. Maybe the man has grown accustomed to the grandiose lifestyle pre-kids. I have friends like this. Now that they have kids, and the mom stays home, the dad had to give up golfing, and so forth, and isn’t happy about it. Maybe they didn’t discuss these things before they married, I don’t know. But, you might be surprised to hear how many dads want their wives working, no matter if the wife wants to stay home. And not because they need the money, but because he likes ‘the high life.’

Sacrificing what is in the best interest of one’s kids doesn’t always come naturally to some. Again, it’s that runaway train, and once many people board it, it’s hard to get off. Not necessarily that it’s even a conscious decision…it’s more that they have grown accustomed to putting a lifestyle first.

Look at our country. The mortgage crisis is indicative of this. People wishing to live in houses they cannot afford, drive cars that they cannot afford…wear clothes that they cannot afford–all to fit a lifestyle ‘show.’ So, for many working couples, they have become enslaved to their high lifestyle. So, instead of judgement, we should pray for everyone who feels that they cannot get off that fast moving train, so that they can place their families, first.

Being a SAHM years ago, and a working mom, now, I can see both sides of this. **

 

[Feanaro_s_Wife]

**I understand what you’re saying Malia, I’m not sure if they buy into a lie though. I think it’s more that some women get on a fast moving train…bound for college…bound for a career…and when kids are part of their lives…they don’t know how to get off that fast moving train, without letting people down.

But that IS the lie. They believed that they could have a career and a family long before they had either and once they realized they couldn’t do both the were already enslaved.
**

It would seem that an instinctive choice for most parents, would be to have mom or dad at home. But, if these things were never discussed, and that train is just fast moving to buy bigger and better houses and toys, etc…(yes there are couples out there like this, not moms, Malia–couples) they just miss the young years before they know it.

See, it’s not solely a mother’s choice, it’s a couple’s choice, laregly.

Yes, once a couple is married it becomes a joint responsibility. But when a woman is “planning” her life, if she already knows she wants to be at home with her future children (or have hubby home…no stranger care) then it is highly unlikely she would accept a marriage proposal (or even date) a man who demanded that his future wife work (as well as him).

Sacrificing what is in the best interest of one’s kids doesn’t always come naturally to some. Again, it’s that runaway train, and once many people board it, it’s hard to get off. Not necessarily that it’s even a conscious decision…it’s more that they have grown accustomed to putting a lifestyle first.

And growing up that way is “buying into the lie”. Things should never come before family but we are constantly told in this society that we can have everything and nothing will suffer for it. BIG FAT LIE!

Look at our country. The mortgage crisis is indicative of this. People wishing to live in houses they cannot afford, drive cars that they cannot afford…wear clothes that they cannot afford–all to fit a lifestyle ‘show.’ So, for many working couples, they have become enslaved to their high lifestyle. So, instead of judgement, we should pray for everyone who feels that they cannot get off that fast moving train, so that they can place their families, first.

Like I have said repeatedly…I am not judging individuals. I feel for those couples who feel trapped in a dual income family just to survive. My comments about being selfish and making poor choices have always been directed at people (moms and dads) who put themselves before their children/families. Who put their desires above the needs of their children. Who believe that being raised by strangers is as good as or even better than being raised by parents.

Being a SAHM years ago, and a working mom, now, I can see both sides of this.

I don’t have to have been on both sides in order to see both sides. I know that today’s society is set up to place things above family. But that is why we have to FIGHT! It is not ok to go on accepting that daycare is a “good choice” so that mom and dad can be “productive” and get “me time” and not be “deprived” of luxuries.

It is only the families that place things above children that I have a problem with. That’s it.

 

[LilyM]

I can’t believe you would suggest that having both a career and a family is comparable to slavery - my mother and grandmother, and most of the working mothers I know, are no slaves, neither are the multitudes of men who successfully combine both career and family.

And if you try - ever - to sell me the canard that women are less capable of combining the two successfully than men, I will literally laugh in your face. I’ve seen far too many examples of women successfully combining the two, and too many examples of men who can’t, to ever fall for it.

Having (and enjoying, of course) a career in fact makes you the opposite of a slave to it, just as having and enjoying children makes you the opposite of a slave to your children. It’s those who struggle against such bonds rather than willingly choosing to serve within them - whether it be through full-time work, full-time raising of a family or both, that are the real slaves.

Let’s look at Jesus’ story of the talents. Remember the servant who had one talent and failed to use it who was punished - while the others, who had five and two and used ALL of the talents they had been given (they didn’t say ‘master, I traded with four of the five talents you gave me …’ or ‘one of the two talents …’) were the ones who were rewarded.

Do you think the master wouldn’t have punished them for failing to use one or more of their talents when they had the opportunity to use all of them, just like he punished the servant who had ONLY one but didn’t use that one when he had the chance?

Do you think likewise that God would not hold my mother, who He gifted with the opportunity, the ability and above all the desire to study medicine, if she had failed to use those gifts by working as a doctor? Even waiting a few years until her children were in school would’ve made a good deal of her knowledge redundant and would’ve made it very difficult for her to pick up where she left off.

A final thought - Malia, do you intend to homeschool Lily when she gets to school age? I have no idea what your answer will be, but I look forward to hearing your thoughts on the topic of homeschool v not.

 

[sanctamaria17]

I somehow don’t think a mother is selfish if she likes working and enjoys her career. I agree with you, LilyM. I actually was on the premed route myself (then became an International Relations major, specializing in Europe and US foreign policy). I love my field and while I may change my mind when I have kids, I may not. And I agree that sometimes it makes women better moms, because after a day of work that they enjoy, they may be happier to come home to their kids and still be very devoted to them.

Both my parents worked for the most of my childhood but I wouldn’t trade what they gave me for the world. My parents gave us a lot of love, worked extremely hard to get to where they are today, taught us self-respect, a love for all things intellectual and to make our own choices. They’re strict when they need to be but otherwise lenient. They put a lot into raising the three of us. Yeah, I didn’t have my mom around as much as my brother and sister did as young children but I had my grandma and I was lucky because I’m the only one of the kids who has memories of her, sadly (she passed on when my sister was a baby, well before my brother and little cousins came into the picture). I wouldn’t trade those memories for the world.

Yes, children need their parents. But it depends on the family. One parent doesn’t need to be home every hour of every day all the time. Sometimes, it’s necessary and both can decide who it’s going to be. Sometimes, both parents have careers where they can switch off. And sometimes, they’re lucky to have Grandma, godparents, other extended family. But I don’t think you’re necessarily condemning a child to a lack of love and inability to mature or grow morally, just because they have been in day care. I was a daycare baby and while I was socially awkward, it wasn’t because of that, but because I didn’t want to be like the other kids. All the girls cared about were boys and make up. I liked books, Star Wars and Bruce Springsteen. Hard to find another seven-year-old girl who likes those things (I think this is why most of my friends were boys, and yes, this was my dad’s fault)…

 

[LilyM]

I somehow don’t think a mother is selfish if she likes working and enjoys her career. I agree with you, LilyM. I actually was on the premed route myself (then became an International Relations major, specializing in Europe and US foreign policy). I love my field and while I may change my mind when I have kids, I may not. And I agree that sometimes it makes women better moms, because after a day of work that they enjoy, they may be happier to come home to their kids and still be very devoted to them.

Both my parents worked for the most of my childhood but I wouldn’t trade what they gave me for the world. My parents gave us a lot of love, worked extremely hard to get to where they are today, taught us self-respect, a love for all things intellectual and to make our own choices. They’re strict when they need to be but otherwise lenient. They put a lot into raising the three of us. Yeah, I didn’t have my mom around as much as my brother and sister did as young children but I had my grandma and I was lucky because I’m the only one of the kids who has memories of her, sadly (she passed on when my sister was a baby, well before my brother and little cousins came into the picture). I wouldn’t trade those memories for the world.

Yes, children need their parents. But it depends on the family. One parent doesn’t need to be home every hour of every day all the time. Sometimes, it’s necessary and both can decide who it’s going to be. Sometimes, both parents have careers where they can switch off. And sometimes, they’re lucky to have Grandma, godparents, other extended family. But I don’t think you’re necessarily condemning a child to a lack of love and inability to mature or grow morally, just because they have been in day care. I was a daycare baby and while I was socially awkward, it wasn’t because of that, but because I didn’t want to be like the other kids. All the girls cared about were boys and make up. I liked books, Star Wars and Bruce Springsteen. Hard to find another seven-year-old girl who likes those things (I think this is why most of my friends were boys, and yes, this was my dad’s fault)…

Thankyou! I thought I’d stepped into a parallel Stepford-Wives style universe for a moment here, with people who have misguided cookie-cutter one-size-fits-all ideas of parenting.

Malia and all you other SAHMs there - in all seriousness, I’m glad that you all are passionate about the idea of being there for your children as SAHMs, and I’m sure with that quality you will do a brilliant job as mothers.

I think we can all agree that the one thing that makes for a successful parent above all else is that they be passionate about raising their children right. And I hope we can agree, without taking it as a judgement on most SAHMs, that there are plenty who, while physically present in the same house as their children, mentally and emotionally may as well be on Mars or Jupiter and who, NOT having that passion, make absolutely lousy mothers.

Or who get it wrong in other ways - I can’t begin to count the number of young people I know who reach adulthood and/or leave home absolutely clueless about life, not knowing how to cook, clean, budget their money, shop for groceries, or even change a fnerking lightbulb, because their SAHM mothers coddled them and never let them lift a finger for themselves. Such a mother fails in her most fundamental task - which is to prepare the child for life OUTSIDE the home.

And I hope we can also agree (which I can vouch for from experience) that there are plenty of daycared or otherwise un-SAHMed children out there who DO grow into perfectly mature, strongly moral, well-brought up and socially fine people.

My mother and grandma, though not stay-at-home, were, whatever your preconceptions may be about working mothers, equally as passionate as anyone here about raising their children right - and this made them both excellent mothers, and came through loud and clear in every facet of their children’s upbringing.

Contrary to some of your preconceptions (dare I say prejudices, since a prejudice is an unsubstantiated preconception, which is exactly what some of you have) I and my sisters, my mother and her siblings, never, not once (and we’ve all thought and spoken extensively about our experiences), either felt nor were second best to Mum’s or Grandma’s job, nor neglected in any particular.

If such a parent (a loving, passionate one) puts their child into daycare (and mine didn’t, but I know more than a few great parents who did) then such a parent bends over backwards to make sure it is the best possible care that they can find, and there are really excellent ones out there if you look properly, that will provide care that no parent could complain about.

 

[sanctamaria17]

Exactly.

Seriously, I don’t think a working mother who seriously cares for her little ones is going to just put her little ones in any old place. No, she’s going to think of what’s best, not only financially, but of the quality of the care, the people running the place, the reputation, how the other children are. And they really do teach you manners, how to get along with other kids, all that stuff. It’s not a squalid orphanage in a Third World nation.

And my parents are still very active in my siblings’ lives. Yeah, they work full time, but they take time to be with them, to get to know their friends, they know more of what’s going on in any of our lives than many SAHM’s in my area (all our close friends are Facebook friends with my parents, even my ex, who’s still one of my best friends, is friends with my dad on Facebook). Our friends confide in our parents, because despite the fact that my parents work full time, they’re THERE!! Even though I’m far from home, we still make time to talk to each other. And my sibs are busy too. My sister goes to school, dances, does church stuff, and house work for a neighbor, as well as her AP classes. My brother does band, jazz band, bass lessons, sports, etc. as well as school. Heck, my mom needs something to do while everyone’s busy!

 

[Feanaro_s_Wife]

**I will attempt this one more time, making my points as short as possible to hopefully bypass all of the confusion.

1. I am ONLY talking about the selfish moms who DO put their careers above the needs of their family…putting their own needs above their family (yes, dads too…)
2. Children need to be cared for by someone who LOVES them. Either parent would be first choice, then grandparents, aunts, uncles etc… a daycare will never love your children. Your children are their job. Yes, lots of daycare workers love their jobs and are excellent…not my point,
3. If a woman has a desire to work full time and raise children then she should find a spouse that will support that goal by helping the family meet the point above.
4. I personally do not think that all two parent working homes are filled with selfish people. I am talking generally ONLY about people who deliberately put themselves first. THAT’s ALL.

So please, I am not tying to offend working moms, dads, or the children of parents who both worked. I just am sickened by the attitude that children are a burden, and inconvenience, and somehow a right…they are not property or pets. And I DO NOT see that attitude here at CAF…not once. But out in the “real world” it is all too prevalent.**

 

[grande11]

Was he always like that? Or he is getting worst?
does he need help? Maybe he is depressed.
good luck to you

 

[LilyM]

So daycare workers can’t possibly love children now. In view of that, I’ll ask you again, Malia - are you intending to homseschool Lily or not? I look forward to hearing your answer.

And so daycare workers get into the profession … why? Is it for the huge money they make? The worldwide fame and adulation? The massive sense of power the position gives them? Because it’s a stress-free and easy way to make a living without any serious responsibilities?

No - for the most part they get into - and more importantly stay in - the job because they LOVE the children! If they didn’t, they’d very soon tire of it and go work in a bank or a supermarket or something.

I’ve done work experience in a daycare - and I can assure you it it not merely a job to the vast majority of daycare workers.

Again, it’s quite funny that earlier Malia was saying words to the effect of ‘at least my daughter will grow up knowing that I love her’. Why is that? You think she will know this because you spend all day with her? If spending all day with someone means love then I must love my boss and co-workers, and those daycare people must really love the kids in their charge.

And if, as I think we’re all agreed, love is an indefinable something above and beyond spending time with a person, then it goes to prove (as my own experience and observation amply demonstrates) that a parent need not spend all day with their child for the child to either know that they’re loved or to receive adequate love.

 

[Feanaro_s_Wife]

I do not believe for one minute than a daycare worker can love a child as much as a blood relative. Do they love children? The good ones do. Do they have the child’s best interests at heart? The good ones do. Can they give each individual child the unconditional love a parent (or other close relative can)? No. Because if they could they wouldn’t last more than a few months in their job. It would be too heartbreaking. In order to be professional they have to have some level of detachment. Just like doctors.

Refresh my memory…do you have any kids?

So daycare workers can’t possibly love children now.

And they get into the profession … why? Is it for the huge money they make? The worldwide fame and adulation? The massive sense of power the position gives them? Because it’s a stress-free and easy way to make a living without any serious responsibilities?

No - for the most part they get into - and more importantly stay in - the job because they LOVE the children! If they didn’t, they’d very soon tire of it and go work in a bank or a supermarket or something.

I’ve done work experience in a daycare - and I can assure you it it not merely a job to the vast majority of daycare workers.

 

[LilyM]

I do not believe for one minute than a daycare worker can love a child as much as a blood relative. Do they love children? The good ones do. Do they have the child’s best interests at heart? The good ones do. Can they give each individual child the unconditional love a parent (or other close relative can)? No. Because if they could they wouldn’t last more than a few months in their job. It would be too heartbreaking. In order to be professional they have to have some level of detachment. Just like doctors.

Refresh my memory…do you have any kids?

So adoptive parents ALSO can’t love their children now, not being blood relatives either? What about step-parents? Uncles and aunts by marriage? Godparents?

I have BEEN a child, and I HAVE parents. That qualifies me as well as anyone to talk about children, parents and parenting!

Now refresh my memory - since no-one but a parent (and a blood parent at that - so much for all the adopters out there) is capable of raising a child day-to-day, I assume you are totally against any sort of schooling outside the home for any child, yes? Logically you can’t be otherwise, since teachers by your criteria are also unfit to be given day-to-day responsibility for our precious little bundles of joy, no?

As for the comment about ‘professional detachment’ - you can’t know many doctors. I come from a family chock full of 'em - (granddad, parents, aunts and uncles, cousins and my older sister). None of 'em are good because they’re detached. Quite the opposite - it takes strong attachment to their patients to enable a doctor to fight (as they have to at times) to get the proper treatment for them.

 

[Feanaro_s_Wife]

Obviously I am not coming across clearly. Sorry I didn’t think to add absolutely every aspect into my “thoughts out loud”. Stepparents, adoptive parents etc fully expect to form a bond with the child. I would be a little freaked out if a daycare worker bonded that closely with their charges.**

And sure you can talk about parenting etc… you have your opinions just as we all do. But I will be very curious to know which opinions stay the same and which ones differ if you are blessed with any little ones of your own.**

As for schooling… I think there are good options to fit different families. I am very pro-homeschooling because I think there are many benefits and that our current method of schooling the masses doesn’t account for the fact that children are individuals. But if a child does attend a school, parents can and should be involved. There are plenty of volunteer opportunities for parents who want to take an active role in their child’s schooling. If both parents work full time then school is just like daycare for older kids:shrug:

There are those parents who use the school system to get an education for their child. Then there are the ones who use it to get away from their child. I only support ONE of those options

So adoptive parents ALSO can’t love their children now, not being blood relatives either? What about step-parents? Uncles and aunts by marriage? Godparents?

I have BEEN a child, and I HAVE parents. That qualifies me as well as anyone to talk about children, parents and parenting!

Now refresh my memory - since no-one but a parent (and a blood parent at that - so much for all the adopters out there) is capable of raising a child day-to-day, I assume you are totally against any sort of schooling outside the home for any child, yes? Logically you can’t be otherwise, since teachers by your criteria are also unfit to be given day-to-day responsibility for our precious little bundles of joy, no?

 

[LilyM]

Obviously I am not coming across clearly. Sorry I didn’t think to add absolutely every aspect into my “thoughts out loud”. Stepparents, adoptive parents etc fully expect to form a bond with the child. I would be a little freaked out if a daycare worker bonded that closely with their charges.**

And sure you can talk about parenting etc… you have your opinions just as we all do. But I will be very curious to know which opinions stay the same and which ones differ if you are blessed with any little ones of your own.**

As for schooling… I think there are good options to fit different families. I am very pro-homeschooling because I think there are many benefits and that our current method of schooling the masses doesn’t account for the fact that children are individuals. But if a child does attend a school, parents can and should be involved. There are plenty of volunteer opportunities for parents who want to take an active role in their child’s schooling. If both parents work full time then school is just like daycare for older kids:shrug:

There are those parents who use the school system to get an education for their child. Then there are the ones who use it to get away from their child. I only support ONE of those options

Well, I grant you that if a daycare worker started breastfeeding them or something, then I’d be worried :bigyikes: Mind you, until a little over a century ago there used to be such a thing as ‘wet nurses’ (of course these were women who’d just had children of their own) who were employed to do just that Goes to show how parenting has its fashions and fads - often incomprehensible to later generations - like clothing or anything else.

Otherwise I dont think a child can have too much love or guidance, whether it’s from a good teacher or carer or a parent, grandparent or other family friend or relative. As long as the attitudes and morals of parents and other carers gel together, I don’t see a problem - takes a village and all that.

But the whole schooling thing is interesting. What is it about, say, an 8-year-old child that makes it, in at least a substantial portion of cases, perfectly fine to put them in care for six or seven hours a day, whereas for a child that is really not that much younger it is, you would deem, largely inappropriate?

Does a school-age kid suddenly stop needing their parents, or suddenly become all grown-up-like? I just don’t see the rationale. If your child is ‘only a baby’ once, then they’re only eight once (or nine or ten) too … and only teenagers once, for that matter. A lot of parents would think that raising a teenager takes just as much work (mentally if not physically) as a baby or toddler, and yet most moms are much happier to go out and work when the child is school-age or teenage. It is a puzzlement!

 

[Feanaro_s_Wife]

Well, I grant you that if a daycare worker started breastfeeding them or something, then I’d be worried :bigyikes: Mind you, until a little over a century ago there used to be such a thing as ‘wet nurses’ (of course these were women who’d just had children of their own) who were employed to do just that Goes to show how parenting has its fashions and fads - often incomprehensible to later generations - like clothing or anything else.

** When a person bonds with a child they start to feel like they have a say in that child’s life. Might have been fine when most people shared simple morals. But with so much of society not agreeing with or being openly hostile to our Catholic faith, having someone like a daycare worker bond to my child could be dangerous. Kind of like teachers who go out and girls birth control or abortions without parental consent.

And having another woman breastfeed my baby would be beyond weird…but it doesn’t have to create a bond. I’m sure wet nurses felt more like milk cows than like secondary mothers
**
Otherwise I dont think a child can have too much love or guidance, whether it’s from a good teacher or carer or a parent, grandparent or other family friend or relative. As long as the attitudes and morals of parents and other carers gel together, I don’t see a problem - takes a village and all that.

Of course a child cannot have too much love or guidance. But you make the point that the attitudes and morals of all involved should gel. How likely do you think that would be n a daycare or school situation?

But the whole schooling thing is interesting. What is it about, say, an 8-year-old child that makes it, in at least a substantial portion of cases, perfectly fine to put them in care for six or seven hours a day, whereas for a child that is really not that much younger it is, you would deem, largely inappropriate?
**
It’s a blurry line that, for me, is mostly about individual circumstances. Some children are much more independent at a certain age than others. Some NEED their parents around for much longer than a typical child. Some families don’t have a choice about having both parents work.**

Does a school-age kid suddenly stop needing their parents, or suddenly become all grown-up-like? I just don’t see the rationale. If your child is ‘only a baby’ once, then they’re only eight once (or nine or ten) too … and only teenagers once, for that matter. A lot of parents would think that raising a teenager takes just as much work (mentally if not physically) as a baby or toddler.

**
Babies and toddlers don’t have the ability to reason. Either mom/dad is there or they aren’t. They can’t grasp the “you have to do this” argument. As a child matures, he or she can be reasoned with, express their feelings, and share their opinions with you. A toddler may scream when left at daycare…the parent is assured “that’s normal, go on”. But if your 8 year old tells you he hates school, or is afraid, you can get to the bottom of it and help him/her. They can trust you to help them. A toddler/baby can’t.**

 

[kage_ar]

A read of history (even recent history) will show that wet nurses were much honored and did have many times a life long bond with the children they nursed.

I understand what both of you are trying to say - one thing to keep in mind, the idea of a mom who stays home and devotes her time to raising children and keeping house - without assistance from extended family or servants - is a new development.

Kids have grown up just fine as all sorts of parenting has come and gone. Parents who love God, each other and the rest of the world are what we are ALL called to do. The way we go about that is up to us.

 

[LilyM]

A read of history (even recent history) will show that wet nurses were much honored and did have many times a life long bond with the children they nursed.

Indeed - I believe King Richard the Lionheart gave a lifelong pension to his nurse.

I understand what both of you are trying to say - one thing to keep in mind, the idea of a mom who stays home and devotes her time to raising children and keeping house - without assistance from extended family or servants - is a new development.

:yup: in the middle ages common belief (at least among the middle and upper classes) was that a child’s natural parents were inclined to be too soft on the child to do the best job of raising them properly - that a certain amount of, for want of a better phrase, ‘professional detachment’, prevented the child from developing those faults of character that parents might indulgently overlook.

Frequently middle and upper-class parents put their children OUT of the home to be nursed. And when old enough not to need nursing, to a convent or monastery to educate them, or under the guardianship of a related or unrelated noble family. Or even, for the higher classes, a ‘household’ of the child’s own, with older and wiser heads to advise and raise the child of course - for boys AND girls. Makes daycare look like a very attractive option!

Kids have grown up just fine as all sorts of parenting has come and gone. Parents who love God, each other and the rest of the world are what we are ALL called to do. The way we go about that is up to us.

I’ll give an to that.

And of course a child will cry on their first day at daycare - just as they will sometimes cry if they spend a night away from home in a strange house, even if it’s with the parents. To this day my 10-year-old niece and 12-year-old nephew don’t sleep well away from home.

But of course there’s a difference between ‘normal’ and ‘abnormal’. Another niece of mine actually enjoyed her first days at daycare, but things slowly got worse and worse and it became obvious that for whatever reason she was just miserable. The teachers were very concerned, as my sister was too.

Of course none of them just left the problem unresolved - they discussed it, and my sister ended up taking her out, and found alternative care where her little girl thrived.

So yes, little ones who have problems in daycare get plenty of attention just as the older ones do!

 

[Feanaro_s_Wife]

** What can I say.

I live in today’s society. I wouldn’t trust a stranger with my dog, let alone my own flesh and blood. If it is physically possible for me to stay home with my child (and any future children) I would move mountains in order to do it. Being home for my child is the most important job I can do. Nothing else compares. My opinion, for my life.

And, if it is that important to me, of course it would be hard to be impartial and take on a “to each his own” attitude. Just like when anything is important to anyone.

Recycling important to you? cringe when you see neighbors tossing perfectly reusable stuff in with the trash…you wish they wouldn’t.

Politics important to you? Of course you care who wins and wish everyone could see things your way.

Hate the idea of indoor pets? You are not likely going to spend overnight visits in a home where you’ll have cat hair up your nose all night.

Think smoking is hazardous to your health? Not likely to look at your friend smoking and say, “good choice for YOU, glad it’s not me who will doe a horrible death though!”…

I am now bowing out of this conversation. I can see we have reached an impasse. No big deal. Just don’t have the energy to keep up.**

 

[sanctamaria17]

There were times I cried when left at daycare but they were because my grandma had died and even as a young child, I was very deeply affected by it, as were the rest of my family. My parents tried to spend enough time with us, at that time, but it was very hard because they still had to work a lot, even though they were grieving horribly (my grandmother was a young woman and my mom was a very young mother who was struggling with two children and my grandma was the closest thing to a true mother that my dad had).

But at the same time, I feel that some of my daycare experiences affected me in ways that shaped my life. For example, my teacher one year took us to see The Lion King and proceeded to teach us about a variety of cultures (Mexican, Kenyan, Japanese), as well as a few words in Spanish, Japanese, and Swahili. Ever since, I’ve held a lifelong love of languages, travel and cultures and am going into the field of International Relations today. I also had mostly boys in my age group so I was often time the only girl. Ever since, I’ve had healthy friendships with boys. I couldn’t have had that if I was home all the time.

My parents STRUGGLED with our education as children. Homeschool was not doable for my family, though my mom wanted to do it. They sent us to Catholic school, then public. My mom stayed at home at some points, but not most of it. You know something? My siblings and I are more secure than most kids in our area who have stay-at-home parents. Not because we were in daycare/etc from young ages but because we have parents who despite everything, love us to pieces and would do anything for us. These are the people who have fought for us in the past, when things were tough. When I was bullied in school, my mom was my biggest advocate, telling the teachers that they were wrong for daring to suggest I try to conform to the other kids. She is always there for us and would leave anything at the drop of a hat if something was wrong. Same with my dad.

It’s not about who works, who stays at home, whatever. It’s about the LOVE you give your kids, the way you take your responsibility as a parent, and your willingness to put them first before yourself. Sometimes, that means Mom stays at home. Sometimes it means that Dad does. Sometimes it means that both work, whether to make ends meet or because they actually like their careers and could teach their kids about following their hearts desires, as well as some other things (i.e. doctors, importance of health; lawyers, justice and following the law, etc).

And I say this as someone who may have been socialized 8 hours a day since the age of two, but ended up following not the world’s path, but God’s. Not all of us are conformist