Hydrogen Storage breakthrough announced

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:clapping:

I’m in favor of hydro-cell tech over agricultural technology, when it comes to alternatives to fossil based fuels.

Jim
 
Very cool! We will be looking for a new vehicle before too much longer. It’d be nice if hydrogen cars were available in the next year, or so…
 
Anything that frees us from considering Middle Eastern Potentates, for fear of their impact on our energy supplies, is a plus in my book!
 
JimR-OCDS said:
:clapping:

I’m in favor of hydro-cell tech over agricultural technology, when it comes to alternatives to fossil based fuels.

Jim
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Note that hydrogen is a secondary fuel. You must consume some other fuel, usually electricity, to produce the hydrogen. Now except for solar cells, most electricity is produced by using other fuels. Note that you lose some energy in each step.

However if you produce the electricity with nuclear power it does make sense; since one cannot carry a nuclear reactor in ones car. Fuel cells may be a more practical way to carry the power than electrical batteries. Best estimates are that it will take 10 - 30 years to fully implement a conversion.
 
JimR-OCDS said:
:clapping:

I’m in favor of hydro-cell tech over agricultural technology, when it comes to alternatives to fossil based fuels.

Jim
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I agree. IMHO bio-fuel made from food sources is wrong. Food should be for man and animals not machines.
 
KathleenElsie said:
I agree. IMHO bio-fuel made from food sources is wrong. Food should be for man and animals not machines.
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Agreed. In addition, there is evidence that using food sources to produce fuel is raising the cost of food, which hurts the poor.
 
MelanieAnne said:
Agreed. In addition, there is evidence that using food sources to produce fuel is raising the cost of food, which hurts the poor.
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I have a poll and thread in the Moral Theology area on this. Most of those responding just don’t get it.😦
 
Farmers are being paid right now, not to grow food. Farm subsidies have been around for a long time.

Michigan has been chosen for a plant that makes ethanol from wood chips, and other non-food plants.

Finally, solar material that produces power at 30 cents per watt has been announced in the latest issue of Popular Science.

God bless,
Ed
 
I still like hydrogen fuel…always have. Water in, water out with a nuclear power plant and an internal combustion engine in between. 😃
 
Joe_Kelley said:
Note that hydrogen is a secondary fuel. You must consume some other fuel, usually electricity, to produce the hydrogen. Now except for solar cells, most electricity is produced by using other fuels. Note that you lose some energy in each step.
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Yes, one of the arguments against hydrogen fuel-cell cars is that the electricity to create the fuel-cells would likely be generated by coal burning power plants.

However, the biggest reason wind power isn’t more widely used is that there is no way to store the power for days in which the wind is not blowing. Current battery technology is too inefficient. Perhaps this new technology will help pave the way for greater reliance on wind power, which is economically viable, clean and renewable.

As Christians we need to be good stewards of the Earth, which has been entrusted to our care. Clean fuels are a good way to do it.
 
KathleenElsie said:
I agree. IMHO bio-fuel made from food sources is wrong. Food should be for man and animals not machines.
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How about using vegetable oil as fuel to run big diesels for electricity production?

How many MacDonald’s, Burger Kings, Wendy’s; Long John Silver’s, etc. do we have in this country that throw out all that oil at the end of the day? My guess is millions.

Why couldn’t we get somebody to collect all the old oil, strain it, and use it for fuel? I mean, good heavens, the government mandated that housewives save all their old bacon grease and chicken fat in World War II and turn it in so it could be used to make ammunition. If we could do it then, why not now?
 
JimR-OCDS said:
:clapping:

I’m in favor of hydro-cell tech over agricultural technology, when it comes to alternatives to fossil based fuels.

Jim
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Uh Jim…, most Hydrogen production involves cracking fossil fuels, like natural gas.

All we are talking about here is a storage mechanism, not an energy source.

The hyrdogen would have to be made, as I mentioned, it is commercially done by breaking the hyrocarbons in natural gas.

It is also made, under certain conditions, by algae, but those are trace amounts and have been impractical to harvest.

I suppose that electrolysis of water could be done, using nuclear generated electricity, that would not involve fossil fuels, but it would be a huge energy sink, it would take lots more power in electricity than could be recovered by oxiding the hyrogen in a fuel cell.

Again though, this is simply about storage, not generation; this is like saying that a good battery has been invented, so our electical generation problems are now solved.
 
Wolseley said:
How about using vegetable oil as fuel to run big diesels for electricity production?

How many MacDonald’s, Burger Kings, Wendy’s; Long John Silver’s, etc. do we have in this country that throw out all that oil at the end of the day? My guess is millions.

Why couldn’t we get somebody to collect all the old oil, strain it, and use it for fuel? I mean, good heavens, the government mandated that housewives save all their old bacon grease and chicken fat in World War II and turn it in so it could be used to make ammunition. If we could do it then, why not now?
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We already do this. Products recycled would be a good way to care for the earth as long as they don’t require more power to make then they provide.
 
Scientists have already developed ways to create the hydrogen. Sometimes, when I read some posts, it seems like I’ve walked into the Pessimism Only Zone. But I’m not going to look up everything for you. 🙂

Making a dent in providing energy without using oil will mean a combination of things, not just one.

Wind energy works. Lithium-ion batteries exist and are improving.

Ethanol from wood and non-food plants is available and will become a greater source of fuel.

Solar at 30 cents a watt is available now and is tooling up for mass production now.

The problem is, and will continue to be, the money. Someone wants to make a lot of money so they will likely choose the mix that is the most profitable. However, even the rich may have to give way and let less profitable alternatives in since the need is there.

God bless,
Ed
 
Actually, hydrogen fuels can be used to generate electric generators.

In fact, the technology for creating hydrogen fuels for this level of use, has already been done with good results.

Hydro-cells for automobiles was a different issue. It required pure hydrogen. They could produce pure hydrogen cells in a lab, but having the ability to do it in large volumes in a commercial basis, was economically not possible. The hydrogen picked up too many contaminants in the process.

With this new break-through, it means that they can transport hydrogen, without the problems of contamination, thereby making it unusable for hydro-cell production.

Jim
 
edwest2 said:
Scientists have already developed ways to create the hydrogen. Sometimes, when I read some posts, it seems like I’ve walked into the Pessimism Only Zone. But I’m not going to look up everything for you. 🙂

Making a dent in providing energy without using oil will mean a combination of things, not just one.👍

Wind energy works. When the pols let the wind farms be built. Lithium-ion batteries exist and are improving. Good technoligy and getting better by the day (drawback is disposal)

Ethanol from wood and non-food plants is available and will become a greater source of fuel. 👍 I wonder if recycled paper products would work?

Solar at 30 cents a watt is available now and is tooling up for mass production now. All outdoor home lighting should be required to be solar. We are looking into solar for our deep well pump and emergency backup. Then when it is available we would like to run the whole house on it.

The problem is, and will continue to be, the money. :eek: Someone wants to make a lot of money so they will likely choose the mix that is the most profitable. However, even the rich may have to give way and let less profitable alternatives in since the need is there.👍
God bless,
Ed
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👍 👍 👍
 
Just to put a Catholic and Christian perspective on this discusion: these threads are about Stewardship.

BUT, what we need is REAL, practical stewardship, not “gee whiz” pie-in-the-sky stewardship.

Someone was discussing another technology and referred to it as having great future potential … but that it will always have great future potential … meaning that it will always glitter, always generate that “gleam” in the eye of its popularizers, but never actually have its potential realized.

So, in the case of hydrogen storage breakthroughs, what we need is for some high profile personalities, … the Jay Leno’s of the world … to demonstrate it at their homes and home workshops.

As most folks already know, Leno is a BIG automobile fan. Has a huge personal workshop and huge personal automobile collection. Knows a tremendous amount about cars. And writes a column in each month’s Popular Mechanics. He has written lovingly and knowledgeably about the Baker Electric and the Stanley Steamer, among other great technological innovations.

So, I anticipate Jay Leno will lead the way. And feature each improvement on “Living With Ed”.

So far, however, we haven’t seen any actual practical applications.
 
In the February 2007 issue of The Energy Advocate (subscribe at www.energyadvocate.com ) there is a brief article saying that using the manganese benzenetristetraxolate to store the equivalent energy of a gasoline tank of a small car would require approximately 840 pounds of the new magickal substance.

Not practical at all.

We need for Ahnold to offer a large prize for the invention of something practical. Maybe that would inspire someone.

But this “hydrogen storage breakthrough” ain’t it.
 
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