Hymn with supposedly problematic refrain

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In_Hoc_Signo312

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I wasn’t sure if I was supposed to post this here or in the “Liturgy and Sacraments” thread. I settled upon here since it ultimately relates to Theology. On two separate occasions I’ve sung a Hymn in which the refrain runs thus:

“Precious body, precious blood, here in bread and Wine,
Here the Lord prepares the feast divine,
Bread of life is broken now, cup of life is poured,
Come share the supper of the Lord.”

Some of you might also have sung or heard it at some point. A while later, I came across a different internet forum that claimed the refrain in this verse might be in violation of Church Doctrine. The interpretations ranged from “acceptable, if a bit vague” to “heresy.” In all seriousness, are there any problems with the words in the refrain I posted above? Are the words in line with Doctrine.
 
In_Hoc_Signo312 said:
I wasn’t sure if I was supposed to post this here or in the “Liturgy and Sacraments” thread. I settled upon here since it ultimately relates to Theology. On two separate occasions I’ve sung a Hymn in which the refrain runs thus:

“Precious body, precious blood, here in bread and Wine,
Here the Lord prepares the feast divine,
Bread of life is broken now, cup of life is poured,
Come share the supper of the Lord.”

Some of you might also have sung or heard it at some point. A while later, I came across a different internet forum that claimed the refrain in this verse might be in violation of Church Doctrine. The interpretations ranged from “acceptable, if a bit vague” to “heresy.” In all seriousness, are there any problems with the words in the refrain I posted above? Are the words in line with Doctrine.
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It seems in line with Church teachings, unless you’re a faith that doesn’t believe transubstantiation occurs during the Sacrament of the Eucharist.
While the host and blood are truly the body and blood of Christ, they still have the physical appearance of bread and wine.
 
BobTheCat said:
It seems in line with Church teachings, unless you’re a faith that doesn’t believe transubstantiation occurs during the Sacrament of the Eucharist.
While the host and blood are truly the body and blood of Christ, they still have the physical appearance of bread and wine.
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Yes, well, some people evidently think what is described isn’t actually transubstantiation.
 
Do your other sources say why it is only deemed acceptable?
 
Bridgit_Andrews said:
Do your other sources say why it is only deemed acceptable?
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The “sources,” in this case, was an internet forum whose name I don’t even remember because I accessed it around 2008 or 2009, so I have no idea why they said this. 🤷
 
Another reason I don’t like that hymn is because my husband and I have always thought it sounds similar to the theme to “Beauty and the Beast”. The first time I heard it (years ago), I glanced at him, and he did a very naughty thing. He leaned over and sang-whispered an imitation of Angela Lansbury’s quavery voice “Beauty and the Beast…” He made me laugh (silently) in the communion line! :mad:😊 Now, I can’t hear that hymn without having to sing another song in my head or I start sniggering and pinching myself to make myself stop.😊
 
“under form of bread and wine”, or something similar, would make it more definite.
“sensed as bread and wine”? 5 syllables like the original.
 
In_Hoc_Signo312 said:
I wasn’t sure if I was supposed to post this here or in the “Liturgy and Sacraments” thread. I settled upon here since it ultimately relates to Theology. On two separate occasions I’ve sung a Hymn in which the refrain runs thus:

“Precious body, precious blood, here in bread and Wine,
Here the Lord prepares the feast divine,
Bread of life is broken now, cup of life is poured,
Come share the supper of the Lord.”

Some of you might also have sung or heard it at some point. A while later, I came across a different internet forum that claimed the refrain in this verse might be in violation of Church Doctrine. The interpretations ranged from “acceptable, if a bit vague” to “heresy.” In all seriousness, are there any problems with the words in the refrain I posted above? Are the words in line with Doctrine.
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Jesus Christ is present in the Eucharist under the appearances of bread and wine.

Precious body, precious blood, here in [a position beneath] bread and Wine.

Merriam-Webster under: 1) in or into a position below or beneath something.
 
Jesus said he is the bread of life, bread come down from heaven, living bread (John 6). He commanded us to eat this bread. Apparently he didn’t think anything was wrong with bread. We shouldn’t either.
 
Vico said:
Jesus Christ is present in the Eucharist under the appearances of bread and wine.

Precious body, precious blood, here in [a position beneath] bread and Wine.

Merriam-Webster under: 1) in or into a position below or beneath something.
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Well now I can see how it’s problematic to some
 
I also think it’s possible to overthink things like this. “When we eat this bread and drink this cup, we proclaim your death, O Lord, until you come again” is in the Eucharistic Prayer AFTER the consecration. Everyone knows what is meant, and to my knowledge no one is saying that the Acclamation is heresy.
 
Tarpeian_Rock said:
I also think it’s possible to overthink things like this. “When we eat this bread and drink this cup, we proclaim your death, O Lord, until you come again” is in the Eucharistic Prayer AFTER the consecration. Everyone knows what is meant, and to my knowledge no one is saying that the Acclamation is heresy.
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Great point. Personally, I would say, “Case closed,” but I suspect someone will keep this going. 😉
 
You must be singing out of an old book. It’s been changed to “seen as bread and wine.”
 
Reading such discussions reminds me of the Holy Father’s recent wise words about the need to rediscover the treasures of sacred music. :o
 
The hymn seems to suggest a Lutheran view of the Eucharist - the Body and Blood of Christ are present “in, with and under” the bread and wine.
 
People use the word “heresy” too freely. It is a song. Besides, never put too much stock in prepositions. There is use is slippery to say the least. It should suffice that the refrain starts.

“Precious body, precious blood”

If people get this much, they pretty much get it. So some phrase like “in form of” of “in appearance of” is not present to complete a theological statement. That is the nature of art. I would suggest such people who have complained about this should seek bigger fish to fry.
 
Michael85 said:
The hymn seems to suggest a Lutheran view of the Eucharist - the Body and Blood of Christ are present “in, with and under” the bread and wine.
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Maybe it used to, but the words have been changed to “Precious Body, Precious Blood, seen as bread and wine.” This correctly reflects Catholic theology. The OP is using an outdated book. This is equivalent to to someone starting a thread commenting on how the phrase “one in being with the Father” in the Creed does not accurately depict the Catholic understanding of Jesus’ relationship to the Father.
 
pnewton said:
People use the word “heresy” too freely. It is a song. Besides, never put too much stock in prepositions. There is use is slippery to say the least. It should suffice that the refrain starts.

“Precious body, precious blood”

If people get this much, they pretty much get it. So some phrase like “in form of” of “in appearance of” is not present to complete a theological statement. That is the nature of art. I would suggest such people who have complained about this should seek bigger fish to fry.
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This point was a big enough fish to warrant a change in the lyric a few years ago. Hopefully the OP’s parish can get some updated song books.
 
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