Hymns & Lyrics

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Yesterday was All Saints Day, and at Mass when the priest entered we all sang “When the Saints Go Marching In.”
Then there was another song about “Seeing the Light.” At the end of the Mass it was “Gathering at the River.”
I had a diffucult time with the songs, and could not bring myself to join in. Now, was I wrong in not liking this music at a Catholic Mass? Do I need to work on my attitude.
Thanks Prague
 
They play that at Mass??? YIKES!!!
Actually, Donovan has a very nice rendition of “Lord of the Dance” on one of his CDs, so I can’t hate that song as much as I’d like to. We don’t sing it in our church.
 
Over the last year, I’ve seen a lot of bashing of these two hymns on this forum.

I’m a convert to Catholicism from evangelical Protestantism. We were actually kicked out of our evangelical Protestant church; there was a tribunal and we were pronounced guilty and told to leave. It was all trumped up. A year later, the woman pastor who accused us of “undermining the leadership” was fired from the church after she was caught in a lie.

It was a terrible, ghastly time in my life, the turning point that I will always measure my life by. (Before Ousting, After Ousting.)

We started attending mass a year before the ousting. (We suspect that this is one reason we were kicked out; certain people reported us. We were only attending mass because we wanted to learn more about the mysterious Catholic Church.)

The first time I ever heard “Gather Us In,” I was so overwhelmed with emotion that I stayed after and copied the whole song out of the hymnal onto a bulletin back.

The song, “All Are Welcome” gave me the same reaction. All were NOT welcome in our old Protestant church.

I have played piano in church since I was in 6th grade (I’m now almost 50.) I’ve been involved in hundreds of music ministries in church and also in the secular realm. I know a lot of hymns by heart, both the words and the music.

So you don’t like “Gather Us In” and “All Are Welcome”?

Well, I do.

These two hymns in particular spoke to me at a time in my life when I desperately needed to be “gathered in” and “welcomed.”

I suggest that we all try to think about other people besides ourselves when it comes to music. Not everyone likes everything. It will never be perfect. There will always be a song or a musician or an instrument that we don’t like.

So when you run across one or more of those hymns that you don’t like, consider that there is probably someone sitting in mass who LOVES that song.

God can use all kinds of songs and music to touch people’s hearts. There is no “perfect” music on this earth. From what I have read and experienced in the Catholic Church, there is room for all kinds of music in mass. Both ancient and contemporary music are allowed, from all ethnic groups and styles. Just because you don’t prefer it doesn’t mean it’s less “spiritual” or “correct” or “worshipful.”

I think the important thing is to love those who are sitting around you. If you love them, you will discover that you can sing or listen to almost any kind of music. It’s kind of like the annual family reunion where Grandpa plays “Lady Of Spain” on his accordion. You might hate Lady of Spain and the accordion, but you love Grandpa and you willingly listen to him. This same attitude works wonders in church.
 
Hi Cat…And welcome…I’m a convert too…👍
Funny… we sang “Gather Us In” at Mass this morning and I have always liked it till I came to this forum and read some of the disgusting remarks that are made about it from loving Christians…😉
It was just this morning that I decided that I really do like it in spite of some of the “Music Police” on this forum…:whistle: 👍
 
Hi Cat 👋

Convert here also. I LOVED Gather Us In the first time we sang it at mass. I remember thinking, what a great song… I hope we get to sing that one again someday.

Unfortunatly, “someday” was the week following… and the week after that… and the week after that… after that… after that… etc. Honestly… here it is a year & 1/2 later and I feel all Gathered Out.

That’s my criticism of the song. It’s a big hymnal… can’t we sing a different song?
 
I too am a convert–from Pentecostalism, and I don’t find Gather Us In or All Are Welcome to be good songs for the Mass. I say this quite dispassionately and with no prejudice against anyone who likes them. Merely because a song isn’t appropriate for the Mass doesn’t mean that it is a bad song, per se, nor that it cannot be used in private devotions.

When I first became a Catholic there was a lot I didn’t understand about the Liturgy of the Mass and what it was, and what it wasn’t. Now that I’ve been a Catholic for 20 years this coming Easter Vigil, I understand better why some things are right for the Mass and some things aren’t. It has nothing to do with personal likes and dislikes, but what is fitting for the celebration of the Mass.

Also, as we grow in our Catholic faith, our tastes mature, especially as we learn more about the theological underpinnings of our faith. A desire for reverence in the Mass overtakes the desire to get something personal out of it–although it’s fine if we do get something personal out of it in the way of feelings or reassurance, etc. But, the most important thing we bring away with us from the Mass is the graces of the Mass, which do not depend on our feelings, good or bad.

It’s so hard to try to convey these things in a forum, no matter how good it is, and CAF is one of the best. Cold words on the screen cannot take the place of tone of voice and facial expression. So, often what comes across as harsh or angry is merely straightforward and forceful. And there is nothing un-Christian about that. 😉
 
Hi Cat,

I am a live long Catholic. And I agree with you, I love these to songs and see nothing wrong with them. All are welcome and its wonderful to fully understand that. Just because there are a few Catholics who abuse these songs should not mean that they should not be used.

My two cents
 
Hi and welcome !!
We are not trying to be “music police,” I assure you.
We sang Gather Us In at my parish at last night’s
5 pm Vigil Mass.

It’s not that the song is played that drives some of us nuts.
It’s that, in some parishes, it is played constantly, as if there are no other hymns. Also, “modern” hymns tend to get played to the exclusion of other more traditional revered hymns.

I like “One Bread, One Body.” But I also like “O Salutaris Hostia” and “Tantum Ergo” and “How Great Thou Art,” and “Holy God, We Praise Thy Name”; and these seem to have fallen by the wayside in some parishes.

There are more hymn composers than just Marty Haugen.

If we are going to have variety in our hymns, let’s have
just that: VARIETY !!

God bless,
Jaypeeto4 (aka Jaypeeto3)
 
Welcome to the forums. . .

I hope that you’ll realize when you’ve been here a while that some of us (particularly us oldsters who have been around from the beginning) have had a lot of discussions on topics etc. Sometimes, this forum being such a friendly, family place, and some of us feeling we know each other so well, we can make ‘joking’ references (often related to a different thread on the topic) and (even with smileys) we can come across as being condemning to somebody who has just come ‘on board’.

I’m glad to have seen your post and it will definitely cause me to be a little more ‘careful’ in how I phrase myself. But as a musician myself with some 40 years of background (yep, going back to the big ‘switch’ from Latin to English etc.), I have a different ‘take’ on music than somebody who is perhaps 25 or 30, has maybe little musical background and has virtually ‘grown up’ with a song to which he or she has happy associations. It doesn’t make me ‘right’ in my assessment necessarily; I try (I think) to make a differentiation between a song which (again speaking as a professional musician) I find troubling in a Catholic liturgy because of a lack in theology as opposed to a lack in musicology. We all have certain ‘tastes’ and that is perfectly fine. Beer quenches the thirst as well as wine, and certainly a ‘good’ beer tastes better than a ‘cheap’ wine to boot. . .but there are times when, good as wine and beer may be, water and water only may be suitable. IOW, a song may be ‘catchy’ to sing, its words may rouse many happy, positive feelings. . .but it may not be suitable to liturgy because liturgy requires something over and above this. For some 40 years, ‘liturgy’ has been interpreted pretty much at the pleasure of Bishop A, or even more to the pleasure of Fathers B-Z, and so for 40 years the congregations have been given as a ‘liturgical standard’ music that often does not meet the proper standards. This was not done maliciously in most cases, but it did happen.

Few people really want to call people names, few really want to tell somebody who has positive feelings about a certain song that the song isn’t ‘right’ for liturgy. After all, we’re an ‘egalitarian society’ that for decades has insisted that ‘we the people’ are every bit as ‘good’ and entitled to ‘make our own decisions’ so it does grate (I know it grates on me) when somebody tells me that something I cherish isn’t ‘good enough.’ But if it really is not good enough, I want to know. I want to give God the very best that I can give. After all, I can always listen to any song that I want ‘outside’ of Mass, and that includes at wedding receptions, etc. I am not losing anything by ‘honing’ into a proper liturgy.
 
My parish sings “Gather Us In” time to time.

However, I will say that I have never heard the song “All Are Welcome”.

some lyrics please…
 
“O Salutaris Hostia” and “Tantum Ergo” and “How Great Thou Art,” and “Holy God, We Praise Thy Name”; and these seem to have fallen by the wayside in some parishes.

Amen. Amen. Amen. Amen.

If we are going to have variety in our hymns, let’s have
just that: VARIETY !!

Amen.
My parish sings “Gather Us In” time to time.
However, I will say that I have never heard the song “All Are Welcome”.
some lyrics please…
I don’t have them memorized, but the chorus goes something like “ALLLLLL are welcome, ALLLLLL are welcome, ALLLL are welcome in this place.”
 
I don’t have them memorized, but the chorus goes something like “ALLLLLL are welcome, ALLLLLL are welcome, ALLLL are welcome in this place.”
Yeah, we have never sung or heard “All are welcome in this place”. We just do not sing that song here at my parish. I even asked hubby. He siad NO, never of heard it!

However, we do know “Gather Us In”

Personally one of our favorites is “Lord of the Dance” and “Though the Mountains may fall”.
 
Its true. All are welcome in holy Mother Church. An individual would have to do something pretty severe to receive excommunication papers…like start a schism. 😃
 
I do not know “Gather us in”. In my church I often hear this song “Table of Plenty” :

Come to the feast of heaven and earth, come to the table of plenty
God will provide for all that we need, here at the table of plenty

O come and sit at my table, where saints and sinners are friends…
I wait to welcome the lost and lonely to share the cup of my love

O come and eat without money come to drink without price
My feast of gladness will feed your spirit with faith and fullness of life.

My bread will ever sustain you, through days of sorrow and woe
My wine will flow like a sea of gladness to flood the depths of your soul

Your fields will flower in fullness, your homes flourish in peace
For I the giver of home and harvest, will send my rain on the soil.

I think such song so educating and so beautiful so biblical, even stronger than most homilies I’ve heard.
 
Sorry to leave so suddenly, everyone. I had a four-hour choir rehearsal tonight. Last week I took over playing for a teenage Broadway choir after their accompanist quit, and their concert is in three weeks. Fun and great kids, but my butt is tired of sitting at a bench!

Anyway, I’m not an expert on music history by any means, but from the few music history books I’ve read, I’ve concluded that music wars have been going on since the First Century. There’s always tension in the Church about which music is “correct,” and everyone always thinks their choice is “correct.”

I’m not sure I understand what some of you are talking about when you say that GUI and AAW are not appropriate for mass. The Music Director at our church told me that the only requirement for mass hymns is that they are “reverent.” Can you show me something, perhaps in the GRM (not sure if I spelled that correctly) that would indicate that certain hymns are not appropriate for mass? Thank you.

Another thing–I’ve read quite a few comments on this board from people who say that they “refuse to sing” certain hymns, e.g., any hymn by Martin Luther.

I would like to humbly request that these people please bring signs to church, and when they choose not to sing a certain hymn, could they please hold these signs up so that we will all understand why they are just standing there not singing and not even opening the hymnal?

I apologize for my inability to read minds, but when I see people standing and staring stonily ahead during a hymn, in my limited human understanding and uncharitable heart I can’t help but think that these people are totally uninvolved with the mass. In my judgmental and haughty spirit–pray for me–I wish that they would just leave mass and go home and do what they really want to do, like watching tv or gardening or making love or going to Cracker Barrel. Why should they remain at mass when they obviously (judging from body position and facial expression and lack of participation in the singing), hate mass?

It’s especially tough to be playing the piano in church and glance out at the congregation and see someone standing with their mouth closed and a sour expression on their face, not even looking at the hymnal to read the words. I try very hard to be charitable in my thoughts and think, “They probably have a cold.”

In view of some of the comments on this forum, another charitable thought I could have is, “They probably hate this song and refuse to sing it out of protest because they think it’s inappropriate for Catholics.”

But I admit that I really don’t believe they have a cold or that they have thoughtfully decided to protest the singing of a song by keeping their mouths shut. I regret that I am a weak sinner, and in my sinful weakness, it hurts me to be playing my heart out, and see people just stand there and not singing along with my playing.

SO if you are someone who doesn’t sing for the admirable reason that you are thoughtfully protesting a song, would you mind holding up a sign, and then we’ll all know that you aren’t a lazy, bored, unspiritual person, but in reality, you are really a very very spiritual and very thoughtful person who loves going to mass.

Thanks so much. It will help me be more charitable in my thoughts about you.

If you don’t feel comfortable holding up a sign, perhaps you can at least approach the pianist/organist in your church after mass, and tell them why you didn’t sing the song. Tell them that you are very close to Jesus and love mass, but explain that you don’t sing THAT particular song because ____. Thanks for being nice to the musicians. It will help us serve you better to know why you aren’t singing along when we play.

I’m serious here, folks. What the jolly HECK darn good does it do to protest the singing of a song by just standing there with your mouth and hymnal closed?!! What are you accomplishing anyway?! You looked like a lapsed Catholic who was forced to come to church by your grandma! If there are any Protestants visiting the day you decide to protest, they will receive a negative impression of the Catholic Church from YOU. No wonder so many Protestants think that the Catholic Church is dead. When the animal doesn’t move, it’s dead.

If you are truly convicted that a hymn is improper or inappropriate, why not go to the music director in the church and talk to him/her about your convictions?
 
Over the last year, I’ve seen a lot of bashing of these two hymns on this forum.

These two hymns in particular spoke to me at a time in my life when I desperately needed to be “gathered in” and “welcomed.”
I guarantee if they had played “Morning has Broken” you’d still be a Protestant!😃
 
I’ll like “Gather us in” when anyone can explain the line

“Give us the courage to enter the song.”

Otherwise, I won’t like it.
 
I have to agree with those that complain that it is not the song itself it is the consatant repitition. Here we too have to listen to and sing this at least 2x a month. I would like to put it and about 5 others on a hiatus. And explore the use of some of the more traditional hymns. Mayhabs ones that lend themselves to a more reverential mood.
 
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