Hymns & Lyrics

[JKirkLVNV]

I’m going to have my Traddy credentials revoked, but…

I actually like Here I Am Lord. I kinda like On Eagle’s Wings too. I blame concupisence.

Eh, nobody’s perfect…

Maybe my Neo-con credentials will go out the window, too, because the only stuff I like in the OCP is based on traditional stuff…and even then, they emasculate it, pc it, blah, blah, blah. I’m tired of the Altar of Sacrifice being refered to as a table, etc.,

 

[Cavaille-Coll]

Marty Haugen is not a Catholic, but a rather liberal Lutheran. Hence, the Mass of Cremation was not originally written for the Catholic liturgy. Like many other musicians of questionable Catholicity, mainstream hymnal publishers (particularly the one found in the Pacific Northwest) pay good money for their “talent”, and they specifically seek music with a social justice orientation. Given one’s (politically) correct leanings, one can make a nice living churning out saccharine pseudo-music for such publishers. If the music of Haugen/Haas/Schutte/Farrell/Walker/Hurd/Landry/Cooney/Willett/et. al. can be said to have poetic license, that license should be revoked!

 

[LilyM]

Mass of CREMATION? :bigyikes: Must be an awful lot of funerals going on round my neck of hte woods then.

Could you possibly be referring to the infamous and over-used Mass of Creation?

 

[mercygate]

OK. Has anybody on here written a hymn or words to a hymn tune? Seriously: not like rayne89’s hysterical parody? Did you get permission to use it?

 

[Trident59]

After some research, I figured out why OCP has cornered the market on hymnals and missals; check their pricing structure. They are cheap and make it possible for a small parish to buy their books on VERY nice terms (up to 3 years payments). I don’t think Adoremus or the others are that well “healed” so as to be able to offer credit like that.

OOPS! I’m off topic. Mea Culpa.

 

[SMHW]

Now We Remain by David Haas.
Verse 4
We are the presence of God; this is our call.
Now to become bread and wine,
Food for the hungry, life for the weary,
For to live with the Lord, we must die with the Lord.

Ugh, no we don’t become bread. Sorry. I think the composer is trying to turn the Eucharist into some sort of social justice issue. “We are the presence of God”. I just don’t get that. I mean, I understand the Holy Spirit guides people, but when I walk into a room, people don’t say “Hi God”…Look, God is omnipotent and omniscient, but tell me where in the Catechism God is omnipresent. I think the orthodox Catholic belief is that Christ is substantially present in the Eucharist. Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity.

It’s hardly surprising that these songs reflect what was taught in many (if not all) American seminaries in the 1970’s. The priests and former seminarians (many of whom became music composers) who I know attended seminary in the mid '70s were taught that it’s not enough to carry Jesus or be a sign of Jesus to others but that we are to BE Jesus to others.

 

[MusicMan]

Marty Haugen is not a Catholic, but a rather liberal Lutheran.

Could you provide evidence of this?

 

[Rand_Al_Thor]

Pax vobiscum!

I have contacted Fr. Amorth in Rome to come take a look at Dr. Bombay. Who would have ever thought we’d see the day that Dr. Bombay would admit to liking modern songs? I think I know what’s next: LifeTeen Masses and charismatic followship meetings!

In Christ,
Rand

 

[rayne89]

Could you provide evidence of this?

abmus.org.uk/MartyHaugen2005.htm

Marty explained that he was brought up in the Lutheran Church, had worked for 15 years in the Roman Catholic Church and belonged, to the American, equivalent of our English United Reformed Church.

So hewas raised Lutheran and was never Catholic.

 

[MusicMan]

I’m not sure I’d consider that source reliable. Espeically since I can’t seem to figure out what denomination he belongs to due to the comma errors in the bio.

Unfortunately, I can’t seem to find a more accurate bio that definitively states he is (was) or is not (was not) a Catholic. Most of the bios I find online allude to the possibility that he is, but none say for sure.

I do have a Lutheran Pastor friend (small town, short handed on organists) who claims Mr. Haugen holds a certification in liturgical music in the ELCA, but he is actually a practicing Catholic.

In any case, if one attempts to learn about Morning Prayer from his setting in Gather, they will discover it to be not representative of the current Catholic Morning Prayer liturgy, but to be in line with the current Episcopalian Morning Prayer liturgy.

 

[prv]

Beats the heck out of that great Catholic hymn “I beg your pardon, I never promised you a rose garden” It was a sorry country hit that was forced down our throats in sixth grade for us to sing at mass.

KUM BA YAHY (sic) is another one. Makes me want to shave my head and sell flowers at the airport.

I never heard " I beg…". KUM BA YAHY (sic) interestingly enough I heard only in first grade and possibly second (15-16 years ago), and I’ve never heard it in church (not even my old parish church) since then. BTW, the priest that was pastor was there at least since my family’s arrival (ibid.) until he retired from active ministry last summer. The music directors, well, uh, they change every few years.

 

[mrsfrazier]

Just thought I would say that I don’t really agree with the op’s interpretation of the song; I wrote below what I am thinking of when we sing this song during Mass. IMO, it is a great song, and I enjoy singing it. I agree that it is not something to be sung as worship during communion, but it is a good opening song to gather people together to focus on the Mass and reaffirm that they are each a part of the Body of Christ. It would also be a good offertory song because of the many references to putting aside sin, failure, or other flaws to accept Jesus’ command to follow Him.

Gather Us In by Marty Haugen.

Verse 1:
Here in this place, new light is streaming
Now is the darkness vanished away
See in this space our fears and our dreamings
Brought here to you in the light of this day

This verse is great, it’s about offering up to God the darkness of your doubts, fears and sins. “He will bring into light what is hidden in darkness and will expose the motives of men’s hearts.” (1 cor 4:5) There is a lot about bringing things from dark into light in the Bible…

Refrain
Gather us in the lost and forsaken
Gather us in the blind and the lame
Call to us now and we shall awaken
We shall arise at the sound of our name

Jesus is the shepherd that gathers together his flock, this is a great section where people affirm their positive response to God’s call…

Verse 2
We are the young our lives are a mystery
We are the old who yearn for your face
We have been sung throughout all of history
Called to be light to the whole human race

How is this selfish? It seems to me more of a statement about setting ourselves apart as God’s people…“You are the light of the world…let your light shine before men, that they may see your good deeds and praise you Father in heaven” (Matt 5:14-15)

Refrain 2
Gather us in the rich and the haughty
Gather us in the proud and the strong
Give us a heart so meek and so lowly
Give us the courage to enter the song

Think about it…catholic=universal…this song is really affirming that there is a place and desire for everyone to belong to the Church, even if they aren’t perfect.

Verse 3
Here we all take the wine and the water
Here we will take the bread of new birth
Here you shall call your sons and your daughters
Call us anew to be salt for the earth

There is a lot crammed into this verse. Again, it refers to Matt 5 (salt of the earth), to the Eucharist, and to our new relationship with God as children. How is that watered down or modern, it seems to be basic ideas behind Christianity.

Refrain 3
Give us to drink the wine of compassion
Give us to eat the bread that is you
Nourish us well, and teach us to fashion
Lives that are holy and hearts that are true

I love this verse–it talks about the effects of the Eucharist.

Verse 4
Not in the dark of buildings confining
Not in some heaven, light-years away
here in this place the new light is shining
Now is the Kingdom, now is the day

This is not belittling the idea of heaven, but rather emphasizing the immediacy of committment to Christ today and now as a very real concept, rather than as something that is able to be limited.

Refrain 4
Gather us in and hold us forever
Gather us in and make us your own
Gather us in all peoples together
Fire of love in our peoples together

This is beautiful, it is a very real expression of a desire to belong to God.

 

[Ace86]

adoremus.org/1102MassMusic.html

Here is an excellent article on the Sacrifice of the Mass.
Some excerpts:

*Indeed, according to David Haas, the reverse is true: Christ becomes bread.

    (verse 3) He chose to give of Himself
    Became our bread
    (David Haas: "Now We Remain". Text © 1983 GIA Publications).

Moreover, we are to become bread and wine, as the hymn continues:

    (verse 4) We are the presence of God
    This is our call
    Now to become bread and wine
    Food for the hungry
    Life for the weary
    (David Haas: "Now We Remain". Text © 1983 GIA Publications)*

Only by purging our churches of questionable texts and by insisting on hymns that correctly state the nature of the Eucharist can we hope to restore belief in the Real Presence. Only by emphasizing the Sacrifice rather than the supper can we bring to this sacrament the reverence it deserves.

 

[prv]

adoremus.org/1102MassMusic.html

Here is an excellent article on the Sacrifice of the Mass.
Some excerpts:

*Indeed, according to David Haas, the reverse is true: Christ becomes bread.

    (verse 3) He chose to give of Himself
    Became our bread
    (David Haas: "Now We Remain". Text © 1983 GIA Publications).

Moreover, we are to become bread and wine, as the hymn continues:

    (verse 4) We are the presence of God
    This is our call
    Now to become bread and wine
    Food for the hungry
    Life for the weary
    (David Haas: "Now We Remain". Text © 1983 GIA Publications)*

Only by purging our churches of questionable texts and by insisting on hymns that correctly state the nature of the Eucharist can we hope to restore belief in the Real Presence. Only by emphasizing the Sacrifice rather than the supper can we bring to this sacrament the reverence it deserves.

Agreed.

 

[cheese_sdc]

Indeed, according to David Haas, the reverse is true: Christ becomes bread.

(verse 3) He chose to give of Himself
Became our bread
(David Haas: “Now We Remain”. Text © 1983 GIA Publications).

Moreover, we are to become bread and wine, as the hymn continues:

(verse 4) We are the presence of God
This is our call
Now to become bread and wine
Food for the hungry
Life for the weary
(David Haas: “Now We Remain”. Text © 1983 GIA Publications)

Only by purging our churches of questionable texts and by insisting on hymns that correctly state the nature of the Eucharist can we hope to restore belief in the Real Presence. Only by emphasizing the Sacrifice rather than the supper can we bring to this sacrament the reverence it deserves.

Disagree. It’s poetry. And it expresses very well different aspects of the Eucharist.

 

[Ace86]

My comments in italics.

Verse 1:
Here in this place, new light is streaming
Now is the darkness vanished away
See in this space our fears and our dreamings
Brought here to you in the light of this day

This verse is great, it’s about offering up to God the darkness of your doubts, fears and sins. “He will bring into light what is hidden in darkness and will expose the motives of men’s hearts.” (1 cor 4:5) There is a lot about bringing things from dark into light in the Bible…

No the song says that the “light” is somehow going to take away our fears, etc. It doesn’t say where that light comes from. Do you see the ambiguity?

Refrain
Gather us in the lost and forsaken
Gather us in the blind and the lame
Call to us now and we shall awaken
We shall arise at the sound of our name

Jesus is the shepherd that gathers together his flock, this is a great section where people affirm their positive response to God’s call…

Yeah, Jesus is the Good Shepherd. But the song doesn’t mention that.

Verse 2
We are the young our lives are a mystery
We are the old who yearn for your face
We have been sung throughout all of history
Called to be light to the whole human race

How is this selfish? It seems to me more of a statement about setting ourselves apart as God’s people…“You are the light of the world…let your light shine before men, that they may see your good deeds and praise you Father in heaven” (Matt 5:14-15)

Yeah, we are God’s people, but the song doesn’t say that.

Refrain 2
Gather us in the rich and the haughty
Gather us in the proud and the strong
Give us a heart so meek and so lowly
Give us the courage to enter the song

Think about it…catholic=universal…this song is really affirming that there is a place and desire for everyone to belong to the Church, even if they aren’t perfect.

Well what’s your point? What’s the point of desiring to belong in Church? The point is to worship and adore God at Mass. Not to think about each other, or to have sentimental feelings of belonging. Community is important, but God is more important. The horizontal aspect of the Mass is less important than the vertical aspect of the Most Holy Sacrifice of the Mass.

Verse 3
Here we all take the wine and the water
Here we will take the bread of new birth
Here you shall call your sons and your daughters
Call us anew to be salt for the earth

There is a lot crammed into this verse. Again, it refers to Matt 5 (salt of the earth), to the Eucharist, and to our new relationship with God as children. How is that watered down or modern, it seems to be basic ideas behind Christianity.

Well the Eucharist is more than wine, water, and bread. Duh.

Refrain 3
Give us to drink the wine of compassion
Give us to eat the bread that is you
Nourish us well, and teach us to fashion
Lives that are holy and hearts that are true

I love this verse–it talks about the effects of the Eucharist.

“The bread that is you” — Why refer to it as bread? Why not Body?

Verse 4
Not in the dark of buildings confining
Not in some heaven, light-years away
here in this place the new light is shining
Now is the Kingdom, now is the day

This is not belittling the idea of heaven, but rather emphasizing the immediacy of committment to Christ today and now as a very real concept, rather than as something that is able to be limited.

What do you mean “something that is able to be limited”? Heaven is Heaven! It’s unlimited. I still don’t see the point of that verse. It’s totally ambiguous.*

Refrain 4
Gather us in and hold us forever
Gather us in and make us your own
Gather us in all peoples together
Fire of love in flesh and our bone

This is beautiful, it is a very real expression of a desire to belong to God.

Again, notice the emphasis on “us”. The words God, or Jesus Christ, are not even mentioned. That is horrible. This song hardly compares with something like Holy God We Praise Thy Name. This song could be used in any denomination. It’s not Catholic. It’s not good enough for Christ.

 

[Ace86]

Disagree. It’s poetry. And it expresses very well different aspects of the Eucharist.

It’s too ambiguous in this day and age when many Catholics have a poor understanding of the Eucharist- which is the Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity of Jesus Christ.

Ask yourself – why did the composer use the poetic imagery of bread and wine if it doesn’t have anything to do with the Eucharist??

 

[Cavaille-Coll]

First, we bring Christ to the world.
Next, we become Christ for the world (so much for the Alter Christus)
Now, instead of Christ taking the form of bread and wine, we do!?!

This song may be poetic in grammatical structure, but it is grossly misleading for the majority of Catholics who are not as well grounded in Eucharistic theology, as many are on this board. There is no reference to transubstantiation or the Eucharist, just bread and wine. Jesus DOES NOT become our bread!!! The bread becomes Him.

Most of the “Eucharistic” hymns offered by OCP are of this genre. Instead of worshipping Jesus in the Blessed Sacrament, we sing about ourselves (again!) and how we transubstantiate for the world, or even worse, turn into bread and wine. Maybe we should ask people to genuflect to us after we leave Mass?

 

[wjp984]

I actually don’t mind the new music at all except for one. I hate Anderson’s Gloria. Not only is the mixed up English/Latin refrain of Groria in Excelcius stupid, he changes the words of the Gloria for the verses. I have always had the Gloria memorized and actually know it in Latin as well since I was in a choir that sang a Latin version of it once. Oh, at least the church I go to doesn’t go clap clap like it says to in the book. That would just really top it off and upset me. The worst part is I have to sing this lousy song since I cantor, but I don’t pick the music or songs since the guitarist does that. Other than this, I like the new music though.

 

[Syele]

Beats the heck out of that great Catholic hymn “I beg your pardon, I never promised you a rose garden” It was a sorry country hit that was forced down our throats in sixth grade for us to sing at mass.

What an odd Choice to sing at Mass. Why?