Hymns & Lyrics

[Victorious]

That would be silly; there are plenty of splendid hymns written by Protestants that are acceptable to Catholic sensibilities. Electric guitars and drums? You might have something there.

I must agree about Protestant hymns – provided, as you say, the questionable theology is cleaned up. Part of the genius of the Catholic Church is her ability to take things from outside and “baptize” them and make them her own.

to getting rid of electric guitars and drums!

to getting rid of the Owen Alstott psalms. He sets joyous psalms to the most depressing music. And I’d triple the three AMENs to getting rid of the even more abhorrent works of his wife, Bernadette Farrell.

 

[Victorious]

Oh, and incidentally, I would also kill On These Days of Lenten Journey for the lousy melody and the stupid, psychobabbly lyrics.

 

[Victorious]

Refrain: Let us bring the gifts that differ and, in splendid, varied ways, sing a new church into being, one in faith and love and praise.

Isn’t this what the Protestant reformers thought they were doing back in the 16th century?

 

[Lissla_Lissar]

Since we’ve started attending Mass, I think the thing I’ve missed most is the hymns we sang at our Anglican church. The music at our parish is so awful. I would ban almost everything I’ve sung (or not sung- only about 50% of the congregation even tries to sing) so far.

I miss
St. Patrick’s Breastplate
Be Thou My Vision
Come Thou Fount of Every Blessing
Nearer, My God, To Thee
the Therefore We Before Him Bending (Tatum Ergo Sacramentum)
What A Friend We Have in Jesus
Alleluia! Sing to Jesus!

I don’t think there is anything that contradicts Catholic teaching in any of them- definitely not St. Patrick’s Breastplate or St. Thomas Aquinas/ great hymn.

wanders off humming
I bind unto myself today
The strong name of the Trinity.
By invocation of the same:
The Three in One, and One in Three…

 

[carol_marie]

The music is great, but why would anyone choose that text (ug) over the original?

Come, Thou Fount of every blessing…

LOVE LOVE LOVE this one. I sang it in the Lutheran Church… I wonder if we Catholics sing it??

If given a choice, I would prefer to have my eye poked rather than listen to “Gather Us In” again. When I first started going to mass I thought, “Hmmm… interesting song… I wonder if I’ll hear that one again?” Well, it’s been 1 1/2 years later and the answer is yes… 497 times.

 

[Pug]

If given a choice, I would prefer to have my eye poked rather than listen to “Gather Us In” again. When I first started going to mass I thought, “Hmmm… interesting song… I wonder if I’ll hear that one again?” Well, it’s been 1 1/2 years later and the answer is yes… 497 times.

The big question for me is WHY? Why in the world is someone repeating it ad nauseum? They usually vary the hymns so that we don’t go insane. But this one is exempt.

Oh, the Glory of These Forty Days also seems exempt. Could someone please, pleeeeeeeese write some Lent songs?

 

[Luvadoxi]

Gather Us In–we sing it every week for the processional hymn -yuck! Unsingable.

I’m a recent convert–lifelong Presbyterian from back in the days when we actually said the Creed (Apostles’) every week and sang those old hymns with 4-6 verses! I was catechized by those hymns, and many of the best theology is in the later verses. I really miss hearing “Jesus Christ is Risen Today” on Sundays. So many of the hymns are compatible with Protestant theology–the melodies are often very old–sometimes there are different words (different hymns) set to the same melodies. (And different melodies to same words–Episcopal church is a big offender here–for all I know they may be older melodies, but they’re not as good!) I think the Liturgy of the Hours authorizes many of these hymns…isn’t there an approved Catholic list somewhere–I think I heard that.

Anyway–I want to put a word in for “Let us break bread together.” Until God revealed the meaning of the Eucharist to me (I never knew–for 50 years–I never knew!), this didn’t mean much to me…but look at the words! It’s such a Catholic hymn: “When I fall on my knees (we do at the Consecration) with my face to the rising sun (play on words, rising “Son”…churches traditionally face East), oh, Lord have mercy on me.” This is all from the Mass–when I became Catholic, that hymn just made me cry! Not that I’ve ever heard it in a Catholic church–it just comes into my head when I think of the Eucharist. We mostly have Oregon Press stuff. ::::sigh::::

That said, I rather like the Mass of Creation’s Gloria and Alleluia. Fortunately I’ve never heard clapping–how horrendous!

In my opinion, it would be best to get rid of prejudices against things just because they’re Protestant in origin. Not all Protestants are the same anyway–I grew up in a high church tradition that had great, singable hymns that sent chills up my arms…“He who sings once, prays twice.”

With respect, of course, to the poster who doesn’t like 1700s and 1800s dirges! Tastes can differ…I kind of like gloomy music–reminds me of the Passion.

I cry at Hear I am, Lord, too! Except I don’t like the pauses in the chorus…the musical timing is just awkward. The verses are much better, “I the Lord of sea and sky, etc”.

My daughters love “Morning Has Broken”–sung in my old Presbyterian church (the church today is very different from the 1960s–creeping modern elevator music!) I like it, but not so much in church. Also, we (my old iteration as a Presbyterian) have a liturgical dancer, which, although I’m a dance mom and like dance in general, in church it just looks kind of embarrassing.

Secret confession–I like “Lord of the Dance!” Or…used to. Now, I just think of some of the awful liturgical dance videos I’ve seen, and it’s kind of ruined it for me.

Eagle’s Wings…beautiful. But overdone.

I like the Lifeteen Praise and Worship music, and contemporary Christian music in general, and the youth are very devout, so it reflects their joy. Some of this I hear on the radio conflicts with Catholic theology, but I haven’t heard that in Mass yet. Sometimes, though, I get annoyed with our Lifeteen band (when the drums are too loud).

 

[Luvadoxi]

Oh, yes! And Come Thy Fount–another one that took on new meaning when I became Catholic–about the Precious Blood and our salvation…we really have impoverished ourselves by losing these great old hymns. I’m convinced people would sing if we give them music that stirs the soul.

I think so many of these old-time hymns were ditched in the same reforms that went through the old Presbyterian hymnal to get rid of masculine names, like "Father, " resulting in atrocities like “Come Rest Ye Merry Gentlefolk” We never talked about God the Father, just our Creator God. Even with all the problems in the Catholic church, it’s been so welcome to actually hear about God the Father!

In looking through my old, old hymnal, so many of them deal with triumphal praise for one of the Persons of the Blessed Trinity. I think also the liturgical reformers got rid of triumphalism due to embarrassment. Like, “Onward Christian Soldiers” was out–and I can understand, it was the hymn of the Children’s Crusade. But now it’s metaphorical, as in Ephesians 6. Are we so dumb we can’t understand that??? I guess so.:::sarcasm intended:::. I loved that hymn. But, OK, that was maybe one that had to go. But we have something to be triumphant about! And the result now has been lots and lots of songs about our own wonderfulness, like that dreck about singing the church into being!

 

[Wolseley]

Elzee, you have to tell me, what in the world is “Sing a New Church”.

Really is it “Sing” a new church? What is that about?

Probably the same thing as “Give us the courage to enter the song”, whatever that means. Schutte, Hagen, Haas, et al had a remarkable talent for writing lyrics that are not only theologically murky and unbelievably banal, but at times metaphorically nonsensical as well.

 

[Wolseley]

So many songs to choose from and so little time.

I know; how about closing down Oregon Catholic Press and BURNING ALL the copyrights.

You got my vote. Let’s go back to something—anything—written before 1965. Please!

 

[lak611]

I actually like the traditional Protestant hymns. The stuff that irritates me is anything by Marty Haugen, David Haas, and Darryl Ducote! “Amazing Grace” and “A Mighty Fortress Is Our God”, and “The Church’s One Foundation” are good. “Gather Us In”, “Sing a New Church”, “City of God”, and “All Are Welcome” are horrible! :bigyikes:

 

[patches]

the touchstones should be: (1) is the hymn theologically true, (2) is it theologically appropriate for the service (link it together with the liturgical readings), and (3) is it good music? If the answer is “yes” to these questions, then it’s a good hymn to use.

I think #3 provides the “rub” for all of us musical “experts.” Let’s face it–some people, especially musical “snobs” (and I can certainly be one at times), passionately dislike music that others think is just peachy. But I wouldn’t be very honest if I claimed that my own opinion on number 3 is the only valid one. (That is not to say that there are some musical pieces and styles that almost everyone can agree are horrible, which are well documented in this thread) And we’re certainly all capable of confusing what is familiar with what is good, which may account for the longevity of certain musical duds.

But let’s also be honest, there is a “different strokes for different folks” element when it comes to what is considered “good” music. For example, many people think the only instrument that has any validity is the pipe organ. Though I understand it’s essential purpose and agree it is perfect for many musical pieces, it’s being limited to “terraced” dynamics causes it to not be very musically expressive in a lot of ways, and a bad fit for certain musical styles.

To suggest that one freeze musical history in their own favored era doesn’t speak very well to the issue either. I tend to view just about all musical “nazis” --who would reinvent all church music to fit their own personal taste --with equal suspicion. I have people in my choir who have a disdain for anything that isn’t SATB, who miss the beauty and symbolism of chant and great unison singing. I have others that hate just about everything before 1965, who wouldn’t know a good choral blend if their life depended on it. Still others think the invention of the pipe organ was the beginning of the end of good music. Silly positions all, in my opinion. Beethoven was newfangled, (and criticized for being so) at one point in history.
We have a large body of great music that has stood the test of time to lean on, and a few good (to me;) ) contemporary pieces being written from time to time. I think we must take great care with #1 and #2, but understand differences in musical taste are inevitable and avoid fist fights in the sanctuary over #3.

 

[MarthaMartha]

I’d also ban Eagle’s Wings. I actually do like the song, but as it has been the “official” funeral Mass song for my family for as long as I can remember, I tend to associate it with death.

It will be played at my father-in-law’s funeral this Saturday. (He died of cancer yesterday at the age of 95.)

 

[SMHW]

You got my vote. Let’s go back to something—anything—written before 1965. Please!

Careful! Morning Has Broken fits your standard.

 

[rr1213]

I’m not a very knowledgeable music person, but I get the creeps when songs reflect psalm passages in which God is speaking.

So, when those particular psalms are sung by the laity, it is as if the lay people in the congregation are putting themselves in God’s place. Especially when the word “I” is sung as the Lord might be speaking.

Not sure if I was really clear, but that’s my attempt to answer the posted question of what music should be “stifled”.

Seems to me that only the priest / celebrant should sing or read the words spoken in the first person singular by the Lord.

Except that the Psalms, especially, were written to be set to music. Some even begin with a reference such as “to be accompanied by the harp or flute”, etc.

 

[mrs_abbott]

Sing A New Church – UGH!!!

Definitely gets my vote for most annoying song. Thank goodness we don’t sing it very often…but even once is too many. I refuse to sing about the art of many nations or whatever the silly lyric is.

Are you sure it’s not called Sing A New Song? That’s what’s it’s called here, anyways.

 

[SMHW]

Are you sure it’s not called Sing A New Song? That’s what’s it’s called here, anyways.

Different song:

Sing a new song unto the Lord;
Let your song be sung from mountains high.
Sing a new song unto the Lord,
Singing al-le-lu-ia.

 

[Annunciata]

It will be played at my father-in-law’s funeral this Saturday. (He died of cancer yesterday at the age of 95.)

And I had “Eagles Wings” played at my husbands funeral…He loved that song…

 

[Annunciata]

I’m a recent convert–lifelong Presbyterian from back in the days when we actually said the Creed (Apostles’) every week and sang those old hymns with 4-6 verses! I was catechized by those hymns, and many of the best theology is in the later verses. I really miss hearing “Jesus Christ is Risen Today” on Sundays. So many of the hymns are compatible with Protestant theology–the melodies are often very old–sometimes there are different words (different hymns) set to the same melodies. (And different melodies to same words–Episcopal church is a big offender here–for all I know they may be older melodies, but they’re not as good!) I think the Liturgy of the Hours authorizes many of these hymns…isn’t there an approved Catholic list somewhere–I think I heard that.

Anyway–I want to put a word in for “Let us break bread together.” Until God revealed the meaning of the Eucharist to me (I never knew–for 50 years–I never knew!), this didn’t mean much to me…but look at the words! It’s such a Catholic hymn: “When I fall on my knees (we do at the Consecration) with my face to the rising sun (play on words, rising “Son”…churches traditionally face East), oh, Lord have mercy on me.” This is all from the Mass–when I became Catholic, that hymn just made me cry! Not that I’ve ever heard it in a Catholic church–it just comes into my head when I think of the Eucharist.

In my opinion, it would be best to get rid of prejudices against things just because they’re Protestant in origin. Not all Protestants are the same anyway–I grew up in a high church tradition that had great, singable hymns that sent chills up my arms…“He who sings once, prays twice.”

I cry at Hear I am, Lord, too! Except I don’t like the pauses in the chorus…the musical timing is just awkward. The verses are much better, “I the Lord of sea and sky, etc”.

My daughters love “Morning Has Broken”–sung in my old Presbyterian church (the church today is very different from the 1960s–creeping modern elevator music!) I like it, but not so much in church. Also, we (my old iteration as a Presbyterian) have a liturgical dancer, which, although I’m a dance mom and like dance in general, in church it just looks kind of embarrassing.

Secret confession–I like “Lord of the Dance!” Or…used to. Now, I just think of some of the awful liturgical dance videos I’ve seen, and it’s kind of ruined it for me.

Eagle’s Wings…beautiful. But overdone.

I like the Lifeteen Praise and Worship music, and contemporary Christian music in general, and the youth are very devout, so it reflects their joy. Some of this I hear on the radio conflicts with Catholic theology, but I haven’t heard that in Mass yet. Sometimes, though, I get annoyed with our Lifeteen band (when the drums are too loud).

:clapping:

 

[Cavaille-Coll]

to getting rid of the Owen Alstott psalms. He sets joyous psalms to the most depressing music. And I’d triple the three AMENs to getting rid of the even more abhorrent works of his wife, Bernadette Farrell.

And just think that 20 years ago they were Fr. Owen Alstott and Sr. Bernadette Farrell!