AltarMan:
This thread is about hypocrisy.
It’s easy to find self-described “traditionalists” who will scream about things like holding hands and the use of the orans position by the laity. True enough, it’s easy to make a case supporting their position on such things.
On the other hand they are quick to turn a deaf ear to the Church and follow what they personally believe is “better” and that’s where the hypocrisy kicks-in – hypocrisy which is clearly evident from both sides.
The bottom line is that those individual(s) who go to their pastors to question various liturgical delicts and abuses, do so from a considerably weakened position when they engage in hypocritical behavior.
Here on C/A we see a bit of outrage from some “traditionalists.” Visit a forum like Beliefnet and we would see countering outrage from what some people here would term “modernists.”
And you are still side stepping the issue and completely ignoring the whole “sola GIRM” issue I continue to raise.
There are Catholics who prefer traditional liturgy. There are Catholics who are orthodox who prefer traditional liturgy. None of these are “traditionalists”. I associate that term with schismatics.
We can break the traditional group down further - those who have a preference for the TLM and those satisfied with a reverently celebrated Novus Ordo. Some of the latter come in Latin and some in the vernacular and parishes that celebrate them, usually offer both so people can choose. All of these NO masses are compliant to the GIRM. And, those of us attending prefer to kneel and we are not forced to stand or denied Holy Communion. The priests will not deny someone who is standing. Even when the bishops come to celebrate Mass, nothing changes, other than the stance. Our priests prefer to use the ad orientem stance which was never abolished. The bishop uses the versus populum stance. However, he has never “catechized” or attempted to catechize anyone into standing, nor has any other Bishop to my knowledge.
What cracks me up is that someone like yourself still believes we are violating something the Vatican says we may do. And, it is obvious our Bishop permits this.
Ditto with Netmil(name removed by moderator)'s church and her bishop. They have loose kneelers around the sanctuary that are put into place at Communion. I’ve never heard of her bishop having a problem with them and I’m sure he has been there plenty of times.
There are also Catholics who prefer contemporary forms of worship. Both, contemporary and traditional forms of worship can be reverent and respectful of the norms. I can go to probably 50 parishes in my archdiocese and get contemporary worship. I know of only a small handful that I can go to locally where traditional forms of worship are offered. And, Catholics who prefer traditional forms of worship typically prefer to kneel and receive Holy Communion on the tongue.
The problem is that they have been forced to tolerate contemporary forms of worship for the last 40 years, without any place to give God his due in a traditional manner which is far more reserved than the contemporary Mass. Traditional forms of worship are highly conducive to contemplative prayer or mental prayer - an aspect of silent active participation that Pope John Paul II spoke of.
So, you’ve basically got a bunch of people, myself included (and I’m only 43), who prefer traditional forms of worship and have had our hands tied for decades. I played in a folk band at a contemporary parish for years and while I liked it, I longed for traditional sacred Music and a large choir, Gregorian Chant and the like. Yet, I was raised on Kum-bah-Yah and Gather Us In. At 43 years of age, I finally feel at home at Grotto where I get all of these things and more.
If Archdiocese offered more traditional parishes, even traditional Novus Ordos, then just like here in Metro Detroit, those who are called to this form of worship, will pool together in those parishes. That is why St. Cyril & Methodius is bursting at the seems with umpteen Masses from early morning until nighttime on Sundays. It is also why Grotto packs in several hundred in contrast to a few dozen seen at other urban churches where Catholics are scant.
Its called oppression. And Catholics who prefer traditional forms of worship have been forced to accept all that comes with contemporary worship. When someone wants to save just one last piece of traditional worship from the bottom of their heart and kneel to receive the Body of Christ, how sad that even that should be stripped away by the contemporaries.
It is for that reason the Vatican won’t allow it to be prohibited. It is simply called, charity - something that was missing when people began dismantling everything in the name of V-2 when it was never authorized.
