Hypothetical: How would you improve the welfare system for families?

[redbetta]

I doubt it. What I see is people having different ideas on how to help the poor and others think you don’t care about the poor if you do not agree with their idea on how to do it. I am sure most people on here has donated and done other things to help the poor on here.

 

[Xanthippe_Voorhees]

The thing is that part of the issue with poverty is that to get out of it one has to have been blessed with emotional smarts, book smarts or street smarts to do many of the things being suggested, and usually a combination of those.

Daycare subsidies are great, but don’t really address the issue. They drive up prices. Infant daycare in my area (6 weeks to 9 months) begins at around $2400 a month for a healthy infant with no special needs. If you can’t afford that, you get a subsidy that has kept pace. So a single parent dosn’t even feel the crunch–it’s all just free.

It basically means that even with a Masters degree in my HCOL area with at least one medically special needs child as well as other children it just isn’t worth it for me to work. I am better off picking up freelance.

 

[Xanthippe_Voorhees]

I would end daycare and create a greater subsidy, income based, for all families. A single mom could use it on daycare or whatever. Without a guarantee of the money, daycare centers wouldn’t charge such exorbitant rates.

Stronger, more realistic housing options. There is NO reason that a teeny studio apartment that’s over an hour from a major metro in zero traffic is $2k a month. It’s disgusting. Getting those 2 parent families into modest homes (which are currently not being built) will get them out of the apartments.

A “fresh express” type program for food along with reduced food stamps. High-quality meat and veg delivered with a recipe and just chopping work to do. TEACH cooking.

Realistic career options. You have the people who can work their way up, but you have those who can’t. Sometimes it’s because, perhaps, they are not quite as smart as others, sometimes it’s mental illness, sometimes it’s needed flexibility.

I’ve worked in colleges with continuing ed students. The heartbreaking fact is that there are a true number of people who just can’t achieve the kind of studying needed to make it in higher education. Those students are STILL on my mind to this day. In fact, of the few dozen names that I can recall from 10+ years half of them are those who tried SO hard, whom we pulled out all the stops, who I stayed late for but didn’t make it.

However, one of the young men stayed in contact. He was a good salesman. Working with me, even though he did fail college three times, he gained confidence. He self-esteem turned around. He works at Best Buy and is happy. He’s a good salesman and has won many awards. He’s holding down steady work and providing. He goes to job fairs every now and then hoping to be recruited by a company that pays commission but doesn’t require him driving because he struggles with that.

It’s not about finding work or job training or college. It’s about life training. People who live in poverty need to have the ability to see, and plan, and think about their lives in a realistic way. Many don’t have that option. Free financial counseling should be provided…basically all the support services. Psychological counseling should be mandated for those on welfare because we know that toxic stress affects those in poverty more than any other population.

I disagree with welfare because I disagree with simply throwing money at a problem. That never helped anyone. The money needs to be paired with realistic housing options, financial advice, nutrition advice, childcare advice, life-planning advice AND the ability to access it. Just getting a check and proving you volunteer is not going to make things better. And the check is so small that any one person can’t make things better on their own.

Welfare is a safety net. When a breadwinner loses their job or is struck ill it can be a lifesaver. But we go about it in the wrong way. Someone who needs welfare but had been working a great paying job (lost job due to medical needs, death in the family, etc) can truly use more than a check. They need wholistic support.

 

[Theo520]

It’s not about finding work or job training or college. It’s about life training. People who live in poverty need to have the ability to see, and plan, and think about their lives in a realistic way. Many don’t have that option. Free financial counseling should be provided…basically all the support services. Psychological counseling should be mandated for those on welfare because we know that toxic stress affects those in poverty more than any other population

I think you identified a key issue, that they need life training.

I just don’t know how to accomplish this. I don’t think free visits to a psychologist for therapy will yield much, except a psychologist who can afford a new BMW. What they need is legitimate mentoring from someone they trust and who really cares about them, something that I expect used to be provided by immediate and extended families. I think this mentoring has gone away as families are now much more disconnected. It’s sad how so many families get into fights and stop supporting or even seeing one another.

 

[RCIAGraduate]

Don’t feed the trolls.

 

[Xanthippe_Voorhees]

Xanthippe_Voorhees:

It’s not about finding work or job training or college. It’s about life training. People who live in poverty need to have the ability to see, and plan, and think about their lives in a realistic way. Many don’t have that option. Free financial counseling should be provided…basically all the support services. Psychological counseling should be mandated for those on welfare because we know that toxic stress affects those in poverty more than any other population

I think you identified a key issue, that they need life training.

I just don’t know how to accomplish this. I don’t think free visits to a psychologist for therapy will yield much, except a psychologist who can afford a new BMW. What they need is legitimate mentoring from someone they trust and who really cares about them, something that I expect used to be provided by immediate and extended families. I think this mentoring has gone away as families are now much more disconnected. It’s sad how so many families get into fights and stop supporting or even seeing one another.

Families did take care of their own but that created different issues. For instance, the reluctance to put “unadoptable” children in to state care even if their lives depended on it because they would have no family as an adult.

Having small, non profit community resource centers within neighborhoods staffed by residents within a certain radius and supported by experts who had a “hot desk” type office…ie the psychologist is in x day, nutrition is on y day, specialist on x day.

 

[Theo520]

The below research is a much needed reality check for some posters.

Many Welfare Recipients Lack the Basic Skills Needed to Succeed in the Workplace

Some Disturbing Findings
Almost one in four American adults has very low basic skills. This means that they are generally unable to follow simple written directions for performing a single mathematical operation using numbers easily located in the text. Californians have slightly lower average scores than adults in the rest of the country, and the distribution of basic skills is more extreme in California, with larger percentages of people falling into the very lowest and very highest skill levels.

As might be expected, the basic skills of welfare recipients are lower than those of the general adult population, and the skills of people heavily dependent on welfare (welfare recipients who did not work in the year preceding the survey) are even lower. Welfare recipients in California tend to have substantially lower basic skills than welfare recipients in the rest of the nation, and the basic skills gap between welfare recipients and workers is greater in California than in the nation. These circumstances suggest that California will have a more difficult task than most states in moving people from welfare to full-time work.

 

[QContinuum]

NOT ONE of your examples came from a welfare background, you have rose colored glasses if you think we are going to train people who struggled with High School to meet the the requirements of working in Tech, Only the exceptions will complete and pass legit two year training programs. Knowing how to use a phone or other device as a consumer is very different from knowing how it works.

Ok, I’ve had a drink and watched some golf, so my zen is restored.

Firstly, I didn’t give the full background of every person who works network-side in my company. But, there were multiple moms in the IT department, and at least two who were single moms.

My brother-in-law was himself raised by a single mother of five. She was a nurse, and despite the fact that she had several kids by herself, she managed to raise them on her salary, owning a house in a middle class neighborhood.

Next, I agree that not everyone is geared to college, which is why I pointed out my two co-workers who do not have degrees.

This brings me to my final point: it seems to me you have a very different picture of what a cohort of single moms looks like than I do. Your statements about 98% being incapable of college or even H.S.

When I’m talking single moms, understand I’m not speaking to just poor, uneducated mothers. I’m talking all backgrounds, all races, abilities. I’ve known several single moms in my experience, and most had completed high school and had work experience or college.

So when I talk about helping single moms avoid welfare, I mean helping them avoid the slide into poverty. Single motherhood is a huge risk factor for falling below the poverty line for almost any woman, except spoiled Hollywood actresses.

Now, for those who can’t get anything better than a G.E.D., I know what you’re talking about. That kind of low education tends to be generational.

And sue me, but I still don’t think someone as ignorant as that should be entrusted with childcare.

 

[Theo520]

@QContinuum
Below is the reality of skill levels of people on welfare, though CA is worse than most states per the report.

The vast majority have ‘low’ or ‘very low’ basic skills.
Future nurses and IT support staff will come from the ‘high’ and ‘very high’ basic skills category.
These people with low basic skills are also not likely to be successful small business owners.
Suggest you reevaluate your your thinking on giving them all flexible jobs with good pay.

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)

PS. It’s a bit bigoted of you to only trust your child to someone with college education, and pass over another with just a GED. I think someone with just a GED can be more than adequate as a worker in daycare. I also think the training and supervision of working in daycare will likely make them better parents to their children, a win/win. Better a useful and contributing dead end job than no work at all.

 

[Curious11]

Universal healthcare, guaranteed for everyone. Thank God I’m European and I already have that which I believe the US sorely needs.

I’m not sure if the US is good or bad at this or if this is part of welfare but I would definitely invest a lot in training programs sponsored by the state for workers. Otherwise Silicon Valley is likely to be highly dependent on foreign qualified labor

 

[Theo520]

I’m not sure if the US is good or bad at this or if this is part of welfare but I would definitely invest a lot in training programs sponsored by the state for workers. Otherwise Silicon Valley is likely to be highly dependent on foreign qualified labor

I’m highly skeptical.

Got a link to any of these EU programs that can train someone to be a ‘knowledge worker’ in high tech?

Got a link to their success in training people for any field of employment?

 

[Curious11]

Singapore is the way to go on this point.

 

[QContinuum]

Future nurses and IT support staff will come from the ‘high’ and ‘very high’ basic skills category.
They are also not likely to be successful small business owners.
Suggest you reevaluate your your thinking on giving them all flexible jobs with good pay.

Suggest you stop twisting my words. I never said anything about giving anyone a job. I said train them, to give them the skills they need.

Your chart, which is only for California, does not prognosticate about what skill level goes on to become a nurse or a tech. That is the point of training and community college - to build skills in those who previously did not have them. Community colleges and certification programs like C+ typically don’t even require more than a G.E.D. to start.

It does say that a quarter have “moderate to high” level skills. That’s way higher than your 2% number and basic to mid-level skills are all that’s needed to get started in most programs anyway.

I’m starting to get the impression you think nearly all poor people are irreparably stupid.

 

[Theo520]

I assumed you imagined there would be some success between training them and their actually landing work in the field of training. You are nit picking on the obvious to deflect, that your recommended training focus is a dead duck in helping the vast majority of welfare recipients.

Suggest you also read the article I posted on CA, before you assume we can just send these low skilled people to community college, and they will magically upgrade those remedial skills.

The CA article is the best info I found on skill levels for people on welfare, I trust it over your conjecture, or mine. Please leave the ad hominems off the page. The data shows their objective skill levels and you are the one throwing out “irreparably stupid” I’ve only shared data, not insulted them.

As I said before, I think we need to get them employed. Even low skilled jobs are instructive and they open the door for better opportunities. Until we really embrace automation, we will have low skilled jobs that need filling by some citizen. I’d rather provide welfare assistance with a job than not having them work at all.

 

[Mtdobbs]

I don’t know if it’s been said yet but drug testing should be mandatory if you are receiving welfare as the system is abused so much and keeps people trapped.

Some of the money should be released, while some should, in conjunction with grocery stores, be put in accounts to be used for food, especially if there are children involved. Again, in my city, I know of some parents with children and more of the welfare goes towards cigarettes and alcohol than food. Not trying to add to a stereotype, as I also know families who are faithful with their welfare.

Why not offer welfare if people(are medically able)agree to do something beneficial for X number of hours a week in the community, depending on their skills and availability. Volunteering, possibly, in dozens and dozens of different areas. The problem with welfare is that it has the tendency to keep people on welfare. I know some people who have used it to not have to work for 10+ years. Some people need it to survive but others do not.

 

[QContinuum]

It’s a bit bigoted of you to only trust your child to someone with college education, and pass over another with just a GED. I think someone with just a GED can be more than adequate as a worker in daycare.

LOL, you called me a bigot, how cute!

You go ahead and trust your child’s welfare to someone hasn’t been required to take formal training in CPR/ First Aid, nutritional information, recognition of indications of delays/ disabilities, how recognize environmental dangers,and what intellectual and physical stimulation is needed for proper development.

I’d trust my child to some providers. Some G.E.D. or high school drop-out with no certifications is not it.

Again, sue me.

 

[QContinuum]

Please leave the ad hominems off the page.

Yeah, Mr. You’re-a-bigot-QC?

 

[Theo520]

I would trust my child to a daycare that is certified, which means there are people there trained in CPR/First Aid, etc. I recognize that not every employee on staff has to be fully certified in every aspect for the facility to provide affordable and effective daycare.

When your kid goes to regular school, only some of their staff are trained in CPR, First Aid, etc. Not all their staff. Didn’t you know that?

Also, not everyone can afford deluxe daycare like you. I think we should also have competent but affordable daycare.

 

[QContinuum]

I’d trust my kid to you. You got your certs.

 

[Mtdobbs]

I didn’t read the whole post. My apologies.