Hypothetical: How would you improve the welfare system for families?

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  1. Vocational training.
  2. Child care during the program.
  3. A sunsetting program.
Goodwill Industries does it in the private sector and at a fraction of the cost of wasteful government programs. Granted they probably receive G$ assistance, but the concept is right. Build human dignity by allowing those who need assistance to profit from their labor. Baby steps before walking or running.
 
Theo520 said:
The jobs that are flexible and work for single moms mostly aren’t going to pay well, they will be in retail or food services. Doing better requires a college degree.
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So does childcare. Most require an early education degree - the certification I mentioned.

You are misinformed regarding IT, networking, database management, and coding. In my company, I work with techs and engineers from each of these departments. The woman who is one of three who handles 911 routing for all national accounts has a degree in accounting. No engineering at all. She’s frankly brilliant.

My brother-in-law works in networking IT, has for the past several years. He just completed his Associate’s. His previous training was as a Communications specialist in the army.

In my field, 4-year degrees in computer science, networking, and engineering are a bonus, but not necessary. In most cases, you need a technical aptitude, and just a two year degree in networking, network security, or computer science.

What they really look for is certifications, like C++, Unix, Cisco routing (CCNA, CCNP, etc.), and so forth. None of these takes any longer than an early education degree. And they pay substantially better.

My job title pays in the 85K range, plus health insurance that cover more than 85% costs that only costs a few hundred dollars a month for the family. It includes a performance based bonus every year (up to 10% of salary). I get more than four weeks paid vacation, plus 5 days sick pay. If we had another kid, I’d get additional paid paternity leave.

So we’re not wealthy, no, but the job certainly pays a lot better than child care. I know a few single moms at my work, and they seem pretty happy with the flexibility, especially work from home options.

This is just one company. There are a ton of companies out there that need support for their backhaul and network servers. And no, you don’t want to entrust your network security to foreign contractors.
 
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Ok, this might make sense. I’m sure it’s sexist of me, but if you want to make money, some fields like childcare and retail don’t pay off.

Unless you are talking about opening your own Montessori school or Spanish immersion pre-school like the ones near my house. Those places charge almost as much as my son’s private high school tuition. I’m sure the owners own nicer cars and houses than me.
 
Perhaps the problem is 8 people own the same wealth as the bottom 40 million. Bezos is a billionaire and his workers have to pee into bottles to avoid reprimand. Wealth needs a massive redistribution in amerca. The Walmarts that pay substandard non liveable wages then depend on public welfare to feed and insure the workers it employs. Then reaps the profit when the food stamps are spent at Walmart. That’s the bigger elephant n the room.
 
QContinuum said:
So does childcare. Most require an early education degree - the certification I mentioned.
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No, you can start working in childcare with a GED. Additional certifications will only increase your pay and employment options. While your children are small, it’s a very practical solution that brings income into the house.

Referencing someone with a 4 yr accounting degree, and she routes calls (you weren’t clear on what she did, just that she’s brilliant)? That’s not IT Support, and I bet she was computer literate from the start. Not really comparable to single moms, maybe with a HS degree and who aren’t candidates for MENSA…

Your brother had both Army and University training for his job, plus I expect several years of practical experience in the army. Not really comparable to single moms, maybe with a HS degree.

In your field, you require at least a two year degree, PLUS APTITUDE. Not really comparable to most single moms, maybe with a HS degree.

All you are really showing is that maybe 2% of these single moms, the ones who are ‘brilliant’ or have an unusual aptitude for computers, have good opportunities. The other 98% don’t have the aptitude and won’t survive legit training that yields qualified candidates.

Maybe you need to spend more time with single moms who don’t have a college degree and don’t have genius IQ levels, You can’t train everyone to be a rocket scientist, just by a govt funding training program.
 
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You eliminate a lot of fraud in the welfare system if you mandate work or other activities for the participants.

It doesn’t have to be hard work, but it does need to get the people involved, whether its work- or therapy sessions for people claiming disability-or going to court to get baby’s daddy involved in ponying up.

Right now, there are a lot of people in the “underground” economy. Its one thing if they get away with not paying taxes, but it takes it to a new level if they are using their “under the table” status to receive welfare too.
 
Theo520 said:
No, you can start working in childcare with a GED. Additional certifications will only increase your pay and employment options.
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In questionable daycares, yes. As to the rest of your post, give me a break. I gotta spell it out for you? It was an example for a career that requires 2 years of education and/ or certs. Neither of the guys in my group has a degree. One has 20 years in the field, the other is a young computer whiz.

You can quit rewriting my bother in law’s background. He has a two year degree from a community college and army experience. No university. Don’t be adding stuff in to suit your agenda, whatever it is.

Most people under 30 are already computer literate. Those that have an aptitude can go into fields like mine. The woman I mentioned with the accounting degree? She doesn’t route 911 calls - she engineers the routes, deciphers the SS7 protocols, works with FCC regulators to assure network compliance and availability, helped build 1X to VoLTE 911 translations, and a whole host of other stuff above my paygrade and beyond my tolerance.

She started in a cell phone store. Then went to network IT. Learned everything she could about networking and 911 translations, then got promoted right up to her position now.

She’s a smart cookie. Her supervisor in the IT department was a single mom.

I did not claim that all single moms can work I’m this field. I’m saying it’s a viable option for those who are technically inclined. You asked for an example of a job that single moms can train for and have better options for pay and bennies being a child care worker working for chump change. I have given you one. Enough excuses.

It’s by no means the ONLY field or option that offers good wages and flexibility.

What’s the matter, you WANT single moms stuck in dead end jobs and dependent on welfare?? So their kids end up in poverty and drugs and crime? Then we have to pay for them down the line!
 
I mentioned I don’t want the tone of this thread to spiral out of control, please keep the discussion related to ideas.
 
I’m as civil as the next guy. Until he starts with asinine labeling and comments. I give back what is given to me.
 
What if work requirements go to far and end up causing excess and undue suffering and pain for the poor and disadvantaged? Can’t things go too far?

But last night, President Trump issued an executive order that could make stories like mine a lot less common. It asks any federal agency that provides assistance to low-income people to re-examine their programs and add work requirements whenever possible. It builds on a letter that the Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services issued to state Medicaid directors earlier this year, allowing states to strip coverage from people who can’t find a job.

People like me.

People who aren’t working because they can’t: because they’re sick or they have a record or they have a disability or they can’t find a job or they’re taking care of their aging parents.

People who need help.

I’ve been on both sides of the opioid epidemic, and I can tell you with absolute certainty that people will die if these restrictions are implemented. I had to fight way too hard and for far too long to get where I am today.
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This might have to do with some other regulation or requirement on welfare if not welfare requirements, but I read another story about a mother struggling with domestic violence, the welfare program sanctioned her for choosing to address her immediate problem and she and her family ended up disappearing. Another family lost to the system.

I get that no one has the answers to everything but if you could, how would you respond to these concerns?
 
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There are three basic answers to the poverty issue:
  1. Kill them off, clearly not an option.
  2. Government support, possibly including a high minimum wage.
  3. Private industry creates or maintains decent jobs HERE.
We’re in this basic situation because the economy has discarded jobs for the skills of certain people. Sure they could find different fields, but this is often not a real option for older people. We’re also saying that going $50K, $100K in debt for many people is required just to get a job. The kind of debt eats into any salary for a long time. Only about a third of the people in this country even have a college degree and college is not a good fit for many people. We need to honor more and encourage more skilled trades. The Internet may be sexy, but your car isn’t getting fixed, your house isn’t being built, and your roads fixed by minimum wage service workers.

All statistics point to the fact that wealth is increasingly being concentrated with a few individuals and corporations. The last time something similar happened was about 150 years ago and things were not pretty. The current situation is certainly at a smaller scale, but it can grow. Ironically it took a Republican to break down the situation. Capitalism is good in my opinion, but it has its failings when just a few people win big and many others lose. If this happens too much civil unrest or society breakdown (e.g. opioid epidemic) follows.
 
No one wants to kill of the poor, why did you mention such a disgusting thing,.

I will admit the bit about the Republican was a bit funny. I’d like to think though that there are GOPers out there who care for the poor and disadvantaged and want to support social mobility and opportunity for those in need.
 
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RCIAGraduate said:
No one wants to kill of the poor, why did you mention such a disgusting thing,.
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It is disgusting. I only use to the make the point that they are and remain valuable people within our society and are not going away. Also to a lesser degree that the “personal responsibility” trope that gets thrown around does not mean every one is in a position to dramatically improve their situation.
 
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PJH_74 said:
Also to a lesser degree that the “personal responsibility” trope that gets thrown around does not mean every one is in a position to do so.
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I think conservatives, libertarians and classical liberals (are there even many of those to considered a political faction) try to emphasize self-sufficiency over government dependency. But there are certain situations when one could see a legitimate need such as someone experiencing a debilitating health condition, disability or severe mental illness or psychological ailments (not even an official dx but past issues like trauma which really affect a person). In addition, I’d like to think that there are many people who want to be responsible for not only themselves but others but really need guidance, support and a firm but nurturing helping hand.

It seems though a lot of the poor are really struggling with discouragement and desolation, a situation that is worsened with social isolation and a lack of a support network.
 
RCIAGraduate said:
I think conservatives, libertarians and classical liberals (are there even many of those to considered a political faction) try to emphasize self-sufficiency over government dependency.
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Therein lies much of the problem. There are those that don’t trust the government and that people receiving benefits aren’t milking it. On the other side there are people who strongly distrust that enough people will put self interest aside to a large enough degree to provide the poor a decent level of humanity. I for one think it would be great if government wasn’t part of the equation but I also seriously doubt there would be enough giving. Many people don’t save (or much) money even in their own interest.

I have a fairly serious case of Epilepsy, which is considered a disability. I however have enough resources to see a neurologist and afford the medication. If I didn’t there is a strong chance my ability to work and earn money could have been seriously impacted.
 
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You don’t need certification to work in a daycare. You need certification to own or run a daycare. What you do need is a clean record, which not every single mom is going to have. So training for daycare might be helpful for some single moms, but certainly not all.
 
Legal daycare facilities hire assistants and train them, nothing shady about that. Thanks for clarifying what the woman does, she picked up material that was very complex and technical without a background of training. As you’ve indicated, she’s brilliant, probably genius IQ. She really has no relevance to this discussion, which is about helping the people on welfare in the mean of the distribution, not the top percentile of intelligence and motivation.

NOT ONE of your examples came from a welfare background, you have rose colored glasses if you think we are going to train people who struggled with High School to meet the the requirements of working in Tech, Only the exceptions will complete and pass legit two year training programs. Knowing how to use a phone or other device as a consumer is very different from knowing how it works.

Below is a good article on the OP topic and specific to college educations. For those who want to go to an accredited college, I think they should retain access to key benefits. But I don’t think pushing a college degree is the right answer for most single moms on welfare. But to your point, it should be an opportunity for them.


This article was specific to the college inclined, we also need solutions for the remainder.
 
Allegra said:
You don’t need certification to work in a daycare. You need certification to own or run a daycare. What you do need is a clean record, which not every single mom is going to have. So training for daycare might be helpful for some single moms, but certainly not all.
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It’s kinda sad how people with records have greatly limited their employment options for many years, perhaps their whole life. While police records can’t be ignored, I hope we evolve to be more forgiving and give people more of a second chance. When thinking of working with kids (I work with at risk foster kids), sometimes the best staff have the most colorful backgrounds, which also prevents them from being promoted and turning their work into a legit career.
 
Yet another gross generalization about the good people of CAF. Tell me, why are you here if you never miss a chance to dump on us?
 
I would get rid of it and encourage hard work; welfare just sustains people in their poverty. It doesn’t help them to get out.
 
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