Hypothetical: Seal of confession when knowledge of confession is public knowledge

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Cumulonimbuss

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Suppose person X confesses to a priest a crime in Confession. The priest breaks the Seal of Confession and reports the crime to the police. The news media reports on X’s crime and mentions X’s name as well as what the priest told the police - which is the fact that X went to Confession, and the crime he confessed in Confession. So anyone who reads the news article knows that X confessed to a crime in Confession, as well as what crime.

Here’s the question: if I read the article and told someone who had not read the article about it, would I be violating the seal? Let’s say I said, “Hey, did you hear in the news about how priest Y spilled the beans about X confessing to (crime) in Confession?” Would that be a violation? Also, what if I just read the article and kept it to myself? Would that be a violation?
 
The seal of confession applies to priests. If it is public knowledge all over the news, talking about it would likely not be sinful. If you worked for the police and it was not public knowledge it would be some pretty serious gossip IMO.

If you overhear someone’s confession by accident and you gossip about it I would say it’s gravely sinful but not breaking the seal.
 
There’s no such thing as a seal of confession for laity. You can talk about what you confessed to a priest whenever you want… You wouldn’t normally hear anybody else’s confession except accidentally or in unusual situations such as having need of a translator, in which case I imagine it would be gravely sinful to divulge that information.

If somebody else’s confession became public knowledge then privacy is out the window at that point, but common sense in charity is always in effect for everybody.
 
O.P. here,

Canon Law 983

§2. The interpreter, if there is one, and all others who in any way have knowledge of sins from confession are also obliged to observe secrecy.

I just don’t know how strict “in any way” would be.
If you overhear someone’s confession by accident and you gossip about it I would say it’s gravely sinful but not breaking the seal.
Actually I think if you accidentally overhear someone’s actual confession and blab about it, you break the seal.
 
Suppose person X confesses to a priest a crime in Confession. The priest breaks the Seal of Confession and reports the crime to the police. The news media reports on X’s crime and mentions X’s name as well as what the priest told the police - which is the fact that X went to Confession, and the crime he confessed in Confession. So anyone who reads the news article knows that X confessed to a crime in Confession, as well as what crime.

Here’s the question: if I read the article and told someone who had not read the article about it, would I be violating the seal? Let’s say I said, “Hey, did you hear in the news about how priest Y spilled the beans about X confessing to (crime) in Confession?” Would that be a violation? Also, what if I just read the article and kept it to myself? Would that be a violation?
No, it would not be violating the Seal (as such) because the secrecy no longer exists.

However, there’s still a moral obligation not to talk about the details of anyone else’s confession, regardless of how one comes to know that information. So, even if you read it in the newspaper, it would be wrong to tell someone else information about the actual confession—regardless of the obvious fact that the other person can simply read it in the paper. It would be fine to talk about the article, but not the actual details of the confession.

Anyone who learns about someone else’s confession is bound to keep that secret, and not to tell anyone else. The fact that someone can easily learn it (by buying a paper) does not change that.
 
Here’s the question: if I read the article and told someone who had not read the article about it, would I be violating the seal?
Most likely, no, because you have the information from a public news source.

If this were from someone that had overheard this by standing outside of the confessional then they have broken the seal (see below) and one who repeats this information is at least guilty of gossiping which in itself could potentially carry the weight of mortal sin.

IMHO: If the article mentioned that this information was “leaked” by someone violating the seal I wouldn’t go pointing it out to others out of respect for the Sacrament.
O.P. here,
Canon Law 983
§2. The interpreter, if there is one, and all others who in any way have knowledge of sins from confession are also obliged to observe secrecy.

I just don’t know how strict “in any way” would be.

Actually I think if you accidentally overhear someone’s actual confession and blab about it, you break the seal.
To expound upon this a bit more:
canonlawmadeeasy.com/2016/02/04/besides-the-priest-who-else-is-bound-by-the-seal-of-confession/
Readers may be surprised to learn that the sacramental seal binds other persons too. Canon 983.2 explains who else is forbidden to repeat the content of a confession: an interpreter (if there is one), and all others who in any way whatever have come to know the sins mentioned by a penitent during his confession. This is reiterated in canon 1388.2, which asserts that interpreters and all other people mentioned in canon 983.2 are, if they violate the sacramental seal, to be punished by a just penalty—which includes the possibility of excommunication. What is all this about?

For starters, let’s take a look at the relatively rare confessional-scenario involving an interpreter. Ordinarily we confess our sins to a priest who speaks our language; but if that’s not possible, a third party can certainly serve as translator. It goes without saying, then, that this third party will have detailed knowledge of the sins confessed by the penitent—and so in order to safeguard the integrity of the sacrament, the Code of Canon Law requires him/her to respect the seal of confession, just as priests are obliged to do. In the case of a translator, the sanction for violating the seal may be less severe than it is for a confessor, but the point is the same: a penitent should never, ever have to fear that the sins he confesses will become public outside the confessional.

But translators aren’t the only people whom the Code of Canon Law requires to maintain the sacramental seal besides the priest himself. **The canons just mentioned reference “all other persons who in any way whatsoever have come to know the sins mentioned by a penitent during his confession.” **This would include anyone who happens to overhear the confession, such as other penitents waiting outside the confessional for their turn. Let’s say that Jim is in the confessional speaking to the priest, while Maria is the next penitent in line, and is waiting outside. If Maria overhears what Jim confesses to the priest, she cannot repeat it—and this holds true regardless of whether she was deliberately eavesdropping, or heard Jim’s words purely by accident.
 
Response to FrDavid96,

So it’s fine to talk about the article, but NOT what the person confessed. So you could say to someone, “Oh I heard in the news a priest broke the seal of confession,” but if the other person asks what sin was revealed specifically, I wouldn’t be able to tell them. Am I understanding correctly?

What about talking about this stuff in a more general way? If I were to say to someone in a general way, not identifying anyone, “I’ve heard of priests breaking the seal of confession to report crimes confessed to them,” that would not be allowed? I’m trying to understand just how far the secrecy of confession goes.
 
Responding to the hypothetical question, I cannot imagine why one would WANT to discuss the contents of that individual’s confession with others in this context. That to me seems like gossip, which is never charitable.
 
Amen! I do not like hypotheticals. And, noting the context, speaking of others calls to mind Matthew 12:36-37, which should not be of comfort to anyone, especially me.
**Matthew 12:36-37 **words to ponder indeed when speaking of others. (NAB)

36
I tell you, on the day of judgment people will render an account for every careless word they speak.
37
By your words you will be acquitted, and by your words you will be condemned.”
usccb.org/bible/matthew/12/

I also don’t like hypotheticals for many are so out of the realm of reality it’s difficult to even fathom such as a priest breaking the seal of the confessional.

Thanks for the bible reference, great reminder for all especially me as well.

Mary.
 
Most likely, no, because you have the information from a public news source.

If this were from someone that had overheard this by standing outside of the confessional then they have broken the seal (see below) and one who repeats this information is at least guilty of gossiping which in itself could potentially carry the weight of mortal sin.

IMHO: If the article mentioned that this information was “leaked” by someone violating the seal I wouldn’t go pointing it out to others out of respect for the Sacrament.

To expound upon this a bit more:
canonlawmadeeasy.com/2016/02/04/besides-the-priest-who-else-is-bound-by-the-seal-of-confession/
Readers may be surprised to learn that the sacramental seal binds other persons too. Canon 983.2 explains who else is forbidden to repeat the content of a confession: an interpreter (if there is one), and all others who in any way whatever have come to know the sins mentioned by a penitent during his confession. This is reiterated in canon 1388.2, which asserts that interpreters and all other people mentioned in canon 983.2 are, if they violate the sacramental seal, to be punished by a just penalty—which includes the possibility of excommunication. What is all this about?

For starters, let’s take a look at the relatively rare confessional-scenario involving an interpreter. Ordinarily we confess our sins to a priest who speaks our language; but if that’s not possible, a third party can certainly serve as translator. It goes without saying, then, that this third party will have detailed knowledge of the sins confessed by the penitent—and so in order to safeguard the integrity of the sacrament, the Code of Canon Law requires him/her to respect the seal of confession, just as priests are obliged to do. In the case of a translator, the sanction for violating the seal may be less severe than it is for a confessor, but the point is the same: a penitent should never, ever have to fear that the sins he confesses will become public outside the confessional.

But translators aren’t the only people whom the Code of Canon Law requires to maintain the sacramental seal besides the priest himself. **The canons just mentioned reference “all other persons who in any way whatsoever have come to know the sins mentioned by a penitent during his confession.” **This would include anyone who happens to overhear the confession, such as other penitents waiting outside the confessional for their turn. Let’s say that Jim is in the confessional speaking to the priest, while Maria is the next penitent in line, and is waiting outside. If Maria overhears what Jim confesses to the priest, she cannot repeat it—and this holds true regardless of whether she was deliberately eavesdropping, or heard Jim’s words purely by accident.
Huh. I did not know this. I just assumed it was grave matter but not technically breaking the seal of confession.

***Can. 983 §1. The sacramental seal is inviolable; therefore it is absolutely forbidden for a confessor to betray in any way a penitent in words or in any manner and for any reason.

§2. The interpreter, if there is one, and all others who in any way have knowledge of sins from confession are also obliged to observe secrecy.

Can. 1388 §1. A confessor who directly violates the sacramental seal incurs a latae sententiae excommunication reserved to the Apostolic See; one who does so only indirectly is to be punished according to the gravity of the delict.

§2. An interpreter and the others mentioned in ⇒ can. 983, §2 who violate the secret are to be punished with a just penalty, not excluding excommunication.***

It doesn’t strictly say “seal”, when referring to anyone bar the priest. I know I’m nit-picking, but I’d be interested t know if the “seal” applies to laity because I genuinely never heard that before.
 
Response to FrDavid96,

So it’s fine to talk about the article, but NOT what the person confessed. So you could say to someone, “Oh I heard in the news a priest broke the seal of confession,” but if the other person asks what sin was revealed specifically, I wouldn’t be able to tell them. Am I understanding correctly?
Yes, you’re understanding it correctly.

It does not matter how you came to know the sin. One should never repeat that information to anyone else.

I did try to make that clear when I wrote my last part
Anyone who learns about someone else’s confession is bound to keep that secret, and not to tell anyone else. The fact that someone can easily learn it (by buying a paper) does not change that.
continuing
What about talking about this stuff in a more general way? If I were to say to someone in a general way, not identifying anyone, “I’ve heard of priests breaking the seal of confession to report crimes confessed to them,” that would not be allowed?
I would prefer to use a slightly different vocabulary. Answering if something is “allowed” with a simple ‘yes or no’ doesn’t always suffice. It doesn’t answer other questions such as 'allowed by whom?" or ‘against the 10 Commandments or against Canon Law?’ etc. Therefore, indulge me to respond this way:

Talking about a newspaper article is not breaking the Seal of Confession. That information is already what we call “public knowledge.” However, that doesn’t make it right. One can talk about the article itself, lamenting the newspaper’s poor judgement in deciding to publish, or the priest’s poor judgement in revealing, etc. Conversation about the situation is fine, although even there, it can devolve into the sin of gossip or the sin of harming another’s reputation.

Having said that, though, the fact remains that anyone who learns of someone else’s sin is still bound to keep that secret. It just doesn’t matter how one learns of it.

Maybe an example can help here:

We know that it is wrong to show a third party a photograph of someone who is naked when that photo was taken without the subject’s consent. A photographer sneaks up to someone’s home and through a window takes a photo of “Actress Jane” while she’s getting ready for a bath. She has no knowledge of this, and certainly doesn’t consent. The photo gets published in a magazine (let’s say a gossip magazine, not a porn one, just for discussion sake). One who buys that magazine is not guilty, under civil law, of violating her privacy–the photographer, the publisher, etc. but not the customer.

Here’s the point: it would be wrong for Jimmy to actually show that photo to his friend. It would not be illegal under civil law, but it would still be violating Jane’s privacy. Jimmy doesn’t get a pass just because he bought the photo instead of having taken it himself. It’s still morally wrong for him to share it. Jane still has a right to her privacy, and every time that photo is shared with a new person, her privacy is violated.

Take that scenario one step further. Even in civil law, it’s illegal to distribute child pornography. One cannot offer as a defense “I downloaded it from the internet.” One cannot distribute it to others just because the source is the internet. Even our civil law recognizes that it doesn’t matter what the source might be. Distributing it to someone else is always wrong. The law doesn’t stop at prosecuting the photographer only. Why? Because it’s always wrong to share such pictures with other people, regardless of how one came to possess it.

So back to the original question:

One who reads about a confession in the newspaper is not actually guilty of the specific crime of directly violating the Seal of Confession. That specific crime carries a penalty of excommunication. Given the circumstances of the original scenario, not even the lesser crime of indirectly violating the Seal would apply to the average person who simply reads the article and discusses it with someone else. While it would not be a canonical crime, it would still be morally wrong----yes, there is a distinction to be made here.
I’m trying to understand just how far the secrecy of confession goes.
That’s rather easy to answer. The Seal of the Confession is absolute. Period. Done.

The bottom line is this: whenever anyone goes to Confession, that person is always entitled to absolute secrecy. It is always wrong to talk about someone else’s confession (unless the penitent freely shares it, of course).

There are degrees of moral culpability. The priest who reveals the information is at the extreme end of that scale of culpability. The person who reads about the sins in the paper then shares that information with someone else is still in the wrong. It’s still sinful, even if it would not incur any specific canonical penalty.
 
Huh. I did not know this. I just assumed it was grave matter but not technically breaking the seal of confession.

***Can. 983 §1. The sacramental seal is inviolable; therefore it is absolutely forbidden for a confessor to betray in any way a penitent in words or in any manner and for any reason.

§2. The interpreter, if there is one, and all others who in any way have knowledge of sins from confession are also obliged to observe secrecy.

Can. 1388 §1. A confessor who directly violates the sacramental seal incurs a latae sententiae excommunication reserved to the Apostolic See; one who does so only indirectly is to be punished according to the gravity of the delict.

§2. An interpreter and the others mentioned in ⇒ can. 983, §2 who violate the secret are to be punished with a just penalty, not excluding excommunication.***

It doesn’t strictly say “seal”, when referring to anyone bar the priest. I know I’m nit-picking, but I’d be interested t know if the “seal” applies to laity because I genuinely never heard that before.
Yes. it does apply.

The words “Seal of Confession” is merely a phrase we use because it’s convenient and customary. We could just as easily call it something else such as “secrecy of Confession” or “Priest-penitent privilege” or something else. The fact that we might use different phrases at different moments does not change the reality we’re describing. The different phrases used in the canons are merely coincidental—they’re not conveying different degrees of obligation. The only degree is “absolutely inviolable.”

It might even be a simple word-choice on the part of the English translators or editors. Someone can check the Latin Code if anyone wants to pursue that further.
 
It seems weird that I can’t directly mention the sin, but I can lead others to read the article by talking about it and they can just find out that way. Why is that? It seems like a big loophole.
 
(Can’t edit above post)

Also, wouldn’t saying something like “A priest broke the seal of confession” imply that a penitent confessed a crime to them anyway? Since the implication is there, but we don’t directly say that a crime was confessed, we’re OK? I’m confused
 
It seems weird that I can’t directly mention the sin, but I can lead others to read the article by talking about it and they can just find out that way. Why is that? It seems like a big loophole.
The thing is, the “loophole” in your hypothetical only exists because the secrecy of the penitent’s confession has already been violated to the greatest degree possible. At that point, the practical effect of the seal has been rendered moot and your concern would be for your own soul.

Note that priests are also not allowed to violate the seal by doing anything that depends on their knowledge of the matter confessed (including, somewhat infamously, not changing out the wine to be consecrated at the next Mass even if someone confessed to poisoning it). So if you as a reader of the newspaper are bound by the seal, pointing people to the article where they will learn the revealed information could also be seen as a violation.
 
It seems weird that I can’t directly mention the sin, but I can lead others to read the article by talking about it and they can just find out that way. Why is that? It seems like a big loophole.
Try to think of the example I gave.

I can say to someone “one is able to find child pornography on the internet.” That’s very very different than actually emailing child pornography to someone. I don’t get a pass on that because the pictures are already posted by someone else. I would hope you agree with that.

Same with the confession newspaper article. If you tell someone else what another party said in confession, you are violating that person’s right to privacy. You don’t get a pass on that because the other person can just buy a paper. It’s wrong to say it. The fact that it’s printed in the newspaper does not make it right if you speak words that you are never supposed to speak.
 
It seems weird that I can’t directly mention the sin, but I can lead others to read the article by talking about it and they can just find out that way. Why is that? It seems like a big loophole.
As mentioned above; however, maybe not clearly enough, just because you know something exists doesn’t mean you should mention it. So, in this case, you know of the article, you mention the article, you are directly contributing to the scandal by disseminating the information that it exists - doesn’t matter if you discuss the contents or not! Furthermore, you are also directly placing the person you mention this article to in a position of the “near occasion of sin” either by their possible gossip and/or their possible act of spreading the knowledge of the article and/or the contents there of.

So while you may not be “breaking the seal of the confessional” in that you didn’t directly hear the contents of the confession, you are potentially placing yourself, and others, in harms way by spreading that knowledge - which you are aware of came from a confession, which as a practicing Catholic you should know is intended to be confidential!
(Can’t edit above post)

Also, wouldn’t saying something like “A priest broke the seal of confession” imply that a penitent confessed a crime to them anyway? Since the implication is there, but we don’t directly say that a crime was confessed, we’re OK? I’m confused
Just because you say, “I know of a priest that broke the seal,” doesn’t imply anything about the contents of the confession (could be something like the penitent used the Lord’s name in Vain)… as far as you know, unless you say the priest broke the seal to expose a crime. However, by saying that a priest broke the seal, you once again, potentially tread upon the afore mentioned complicit act of creating scandal and gossip both of which could potentially be sinful in itself.

Cumulonimbuss, I sense that there is something larger behind your question. These types of questions, “hypothetically: can the seal be broken,” is there a loophole that allows one to expose the sin, are rampant here - usually there’s a deeper question/motivation for asking the question - what is your basis for posing the hypothetical question?
 
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