'I’m gay and I’m a priest, period.’

[zamyrabyrd]

A lot of it is based on my own life experience as a gay man, so maybe my life is just a myth. I had a good childhood with good and loving parents and was never abused in any way. I was never inducted or recruited into being gay but just turned out that way. But I have known gay men from conservative families who attempted suicide. I’ve also seen and talked to gay youth who live on the streets in big cities because they were disowned by their families.

You might be one of the few lucky ones, not to have been molested or inducted into the lifestyle by an older guy. If every story were as abuse free as yours, then it should be as normal a lifestyle as any other. However, this is not the case when restrictions are lifted as in Holland. There is still the lopsided percentage of disease with a direct correlation to promiscuity, higher rates of molestation, substance abuse, internal violence and structural disorders due to the incompatibility of the digestive and reproductive organs.

 

[estesbob]

As always it’s best to look to the Church when discussing these issues. Homosexuality is not compatible with the Priesthood.
Deep-seated homosexual tendencies, which are found in a number of men and women, are also objectively disordered and, for those same people, often constitute a trial. Such persons must be accepted with respect and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided. They are called to fulfil God’s will in their lives and to unite to the sacrifice of the Lord’s Cross the difficulties they may encounter[8].

In the light of such teaching, this Dicastery, in accord with the Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments, believes it necessary to state clearly that the Church, while profoundly respecting the persons in question[9], cannot admit to the seminary or to holy orders those who practise homosexuality, present deep-seated homosexual tendencies or support the so-called “gay culture”[10].*

vatican.va/roman_curia//congregations/ccatheduc/documents/rc_con_ccatheduc_doc_20051104_istruzione_en.html

 

[Thorolfr]

You might be one of the few lucky ones, not to have been molested or inducted into the lifestyle by an older guy. If every story were as abuse free as yours, then it should be as normal a lifestyle as any other. However, this is not the case when restrictions are lifted as in Holland. There is still the lopsided percentage of disease with a direct correlation to promiscuity, higher rates of molestation, substance abuse, internal violence and structural disorders due to the incompatibility of the digestive and reproductive organs.

Why bring up Holland as a place where gay people are growing up normally without abuse, stigma or prejudice? As I posted once before:

Twelve years of same-sex marriage did not wipe out homophobia from society. For instance, Yunus, now 9, and his adoptive mothers had to go into hiding, fearing for their safety.

Bullying and victimisation also still occurs on a daily basis. A recent study by Dutch and American scientists concluded that lesbian, gay and bisexual youths are still victims of stigmatisation in their families, schools and neighbourhoods.

These words and acts have tragic consequences: almost 64% of the surveyed LGBT 18-24-year-olds in the study reported thinking about suicide and almost 13% of them attempted suicide. For straight Dutch youths of the same age group, the figures are respectively 10.3% (thought about suicide) and 2.2% (attempted suicide). The study suggests that ongoing persecution, especially at school and by the parents, are linked to increased risks in suicidal thoughts and attempts.

Chambon notes that there have been a handful of lesbian couples who had to move because of negative and aggressive reactions from their neighbours. But, he says, those are “marginal epi-phenomena”, equivalent in numbers to the occurrence of migrant families who had to move because of racism in their neighbourhoods. However, he recalls that, when looking for a new flat with his husband, several people strongly recommended against moving to a few districts in Amsterdam because they fear the locals’ reactions. Proof, if need be, that equality is only real when the mindset, not only the legal framework, changes too.

euronews.com/2013/04/01/reflecting-on-12-years-of-gay-marriage-in-the-netherlands/

Even in Holland, gay youth are still bullied and harassed and being gay still carries a great amount of stigma, especially in more rural areas. No wonder such youth, even in such places as Holland, are still at greater risk for suicide, substance abuse, low self esteem, etc. Just because laws have been changed, that doesn’t mean that all the people have changed and that there is no longer any prejudice against gay people.

 

[zamyrabyrd]

Why bring up Holland as a place where gay people are growing up normally without abuse, stigma or prejudice? As I posted once before:

euronews.com/2013/04/01/reflecting-on-12-years-of-gay-marriage-in-the-netherlands/

Even in Holland, gay youth are still bullied and harassed and being gay still carries a great amount of stigma, especially in more rural areas. No wonder such youth, even in such places as Holland, are still at greater risk for suicide, substance abuse, low self esteem, etc. Just because laws have been changed, that doesn’t mean that all the people have changed and that there is no longer any prejudice against gay people.

In US history there were waves of immigrants who were at the outset, marginalized, snubbed and even persecuted. My forebears did not demand acceptance or rights but had to earn respect. The same goes for individuals. PROVE you are a good person, that you are trustful, that you respect others and in turn you will reap the benefits of your behavior.

One of the downsides of reverse discrimination is that people resent having others not earning their status in society and just being granted it by virtue of color or family ties.

Any group needs to prove itself first. Why should I or anyone shed suspicion or prejudice before being convinced that a certain group is not a threat? I wrote personally that I would not embrace that lesbian couple with a son because I believe children should have a mother and father. Who is going to shove that down my throat? Maybe if a certain group has a stigma, maybe they earned it. If not, please prove the opposite.

 

[eamonnroma]

Sorry, most of what you say are carefully constructed, white-washing myths.

Sorry. The reality is the opposite. Homophobia creates carefully constructed white-washing myths.

 

[zamyrabyrd]

Sorry. The reality is the opposite. Homophobia creates carefully constructed white-washing myths.

Oh, puleeze, just read the studies already cited: higher percentages of molestation, substance abuse, internal violence, disease, etc. I don’t want to repeat them because I despise talking about this subject.

 

[InSearchofGrace]

Why bring up Holland as a place where gay people are growing up normally without abuse, stigma or prejudice? As I posted once before:

euronews.com/2013/04/01/reflecting-on-12-years-of-gay-marriage-in-the-netherlands/

Even in Holland, gay youth are still bullied and harassed and being gay still carries a great amount of stigma, especially in more rural areas. No wonder such youth, even in such places as Holland, are still at greater risk for suicide, substance abuse, low self esteem, etc. Just because laws have been changed, that doesn’t mean that all the people have changed and that there is no longer any prejudice against gay people.

Accordingly, the level of discrimination against Dutch homosexuals is lowest, even close to non-existent. In Dutch society, nobody raises an eyebrow with the discovery that someone is gay or when someone comes out as gay. Thanks to gay activist now politician Henrik Krol, Holland was the first country to legalize gay “marriage” in 2000.

Sure, in growing up, Dutch gay youth might hear derogatory remarks by their heterosexual peers, not unlike when an obese teen is bullied or ridiculed by other kids, but outright discrimination against homosexuals there? It is almost unheard of. In fact, there are tons of material considered educational, books and audio visual presentations that the schools have the kids read and view, to normalize homosexuality and the youth to accept it as equivalent to heterosexuality. Parents and educators who are largely irreligious just do not offer a contrary school of thought anymore on the matter.

It has been 15 years since the Dutch gay emancipation movement brought full equality to gays with legal same sex “marriage.” If gays and gay youth still feel stigma, which is blamed for social stressors that in turn increase their risk for depression, substance abuse, and suicidal thoughts, is it not possible that, more than not, deep down, the root is that something inside is gnawing at them? That they realize there is something not quite normal when they feel attracted to and pursue sexual activity / relationship with another of the same sex?

A recent article:

mobile.aidsmap.com/Not-quite-normal-exploring-poor-mental-health-in-gay-men/page/2824071#.UvFLBz1_tnM

 

[mdef303]

Its funny how the modern world has become with natural law. Like it doesn’t exist or can be changed OR interepeted differently to means of what they feel is best… smh… We need to look at scripture as the valid source of model to live our lives… no we are not perfect, but natural law is…

Romans 1:26-27[edit]

“ For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompense of their error which was meet.[19]

Chapters 18 and 20 of Leviticus
“You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination.” Chapter 18 verse 22
“If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall surely be put to death; their blood is upon them.” Chapter 20 verse 13[2]

Matthew 19:3
He answered, ‘Have you not read that the one who made them at the beginning “made them male and female” [Genesis 1:27], and said, “For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh” [Genesis 2:24]? So they are no longer two, but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let no one separate.’

If a homosexual were to debate this scripture and interept it to their own evil desires… here is what I can, or everyone else with common sense interept it…

In Matthew 19:12, Jesus speaks of eunuchs who were born as such, eunuchs who were made so by others, and eunuchs who choose to live as such for the kingdom of heaven.

Answer: The eunuchs of the Bible were usually castrated males or those incapable of reproduction due to a birth defect. A eunuch could also be someone who performed work typical of eunuchs, although he remained perfectly capable of having sex—i.e., “eunuch” in some cases was simply a title. The purpose of intentional castration was to induce impotence and remove sexuality. It was a common practice in ancient times for rulers to castrate some of their servants and/or advisers in order to subdue and pacify them. It was especially common to castrate men who tended the royal harem. Queen Esther’s eunuchs are mentioned in Esther 4:4.

In Matthew 19:12, Jesus mentions eunuchs in the context of whether it is good to marry. He says, “There are eunuchs who were born that way, and there are eunuchs who have been made eunuchs by others—and there are those who choose to live like eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven. The one who can accept this should accept it.” Jesus identifies three types of “eunuchs” here: natural eunuchs (“born that way”), forced eunuchs (“made eunuchs by others”), and voluntary eunuchs (“those who choose”).

Natural eunuchs include those who are born with a physical defect, but they also comprise those who are born with no real desire for marriage or sex. Forced eunuchs are those who have been castrated for whatever reason. Voluntary eunuchs are those who, in order to better serve the Lord in some capacity, choose to forego marriage. God calls some people to remain single (and therefore celibate). Paul speaks of those who serve the Lord in their unmarried state in 1 Corinthians 7:7—9.

Some gay groups argue that Jesus was referring to homosexuals when He mentioned eunuchs who were “born that way.” However, the Bible never uses the words homosexual and eunuch interchangeably. Furthermore, eunuchs are never referred to in Scripture as being in sin, while homosexuality is universally condemned in both the Old and New Testaments. As well Homosexuals can have sex and choose men when a woman is the natural way for a man… period…

God Bless.

But we humans feel its right to change the meaning of what the holy perfect gospel teaches… to fit modern society… smh…

Homosexuality is a disease than can be cured… there is no scientific fact stating one is born this way…

Wonder why the highest percent of AIDS is between homosexual men…

 

[JimG]

"What if I have same-sex attraction and simply decide not to reveal this experience to the general public? What if I just don’t come out? It’s clear that the gay community doesn’t think too highly of anyone who prefers not to take full advantage of the “identity” passport that is freely offered. Rejecting this club membership is viewed as self-oppressive, shame-based, and damaging. But here is the too-often hidden truth: Opting out is decidedly more liberating than “coming out.”

A quote from this article.

 

[mdef303]

There is no debating scripture. Period. People choose to be Gay. Men are biologically attracted to woman. This natural law. Gay men “Choose” to be attracted to men. Vice versa for woman. Saying this is natural is a cop out. I forget the bible passage that say that when gay men and woman engage in homosexual activity they become accustomed to it and furthering their disease. When this happens they justify their case as its natural she really it’s not and was their choice all along. Their is no scientific facts that people are born homosexuals. Period. It’s a choice and when this choice develops into a habit it becomes their life. It’s like the criminal that steals. He steals knowing it’s wrong but ignores it and justify it to his own evil desires. Like homosexuals, they act and choose to be this way knowing of natural law but could care less. and know the consequences. AIDS. And a high percent. Maybe this is gods wrath. Who knows but AIDS are the highest in homosexual men. Period. Im out of this thread because too many try to justify the divines words to their own selfish evil desires.

Peace

 

[mdef303]

So we have to accept homosexuals? Never. I won’t and neither will the church because of divine law and natural law. What? Change natural law and the bibles teaching to fit the social sensitivity of the gay community because of their own selfish evil desires. Never.

Cheers

 

[zamyrabyrd]

"What if I have same-sex attraction and simply decide not to reveal this experience to the general public? What if I just don’t come out? It’s clear that the gay community doesn’t think too highly of anyone who prefers not to take full advantage of the “identity” passport that is freely offered. Rejecting this club membership is viewed as self-oppressive, shame-based, and damaging. But here is the too-often hidden truth: Opting out is decidedly more liberating than “coming out.”

A quote from this article.

It’s worth quote from the article cited:
*"… there is one aspect of the LGBTQ(etc.) phenomenon that, it seems to me, is beyond dispute: basing identity on attractions and feelings has become the dominant social disorder of our time.

The shorthand answer to the question of why people are willing to let their attractions and emotions become either major or minor components of their identity—who they are rather than what they experience—is a pretty simple chain of consequences:

1. Public self-identification (coming out) as gay or lesbian (or other “out” labels) leads to entry into and acceptance from a community.
2. Participation in the community leads to group identification as a minority.
3. Identification as a minority leads to shaping the conversation regarding rights and discrimination issues.
4. Shaping that conversation then leads to dramatic social change that favors the perspective and agenda of the minority."*

This is precisely why the “born that way” mantra has to be confronted. It is not skin color or biological gender. It is feeling. If it were not, then it could not be fluid or changed as it is with women who thus identify.

By way of compassion, however, there is a common denominator here, the need to be loved and to be part of a community. This is the basis of joining gangs, cliques or cults. Being part of a group banishes loneliness but as with any addictive behavior, the cure is often the poison. There is no inherent real love in this group with its ever shifting boundaries. When you are over the hill, you are treated like last week’s leftovers.

 

[at9009]

Gay men “Choose” to be attracted to men

Okay, your post is rather uncharitable. There are plenty of men and women who experience same sex attractions and did not choose those particular temptations. Now, people do have the choice to act or not on those temptations (if that is what you mean by choose to be gay) but most don’t choose to be attracted to the same sex. Your statement is largely lacking of compassion and is grossly mischaracterized large group of people with these attractions and temptations who strive to live with in accordance with Church teaching.

 

[at9009]

So we have to accept homosexuals? Never. I won’t and neither will the church because of divine law and natural law. What? Change natural law and the bibles teaching to fit the social sensitivity of the gay community because of their own selfish evil desires. Never.

Cheers

One can accept that a person has inherent God-given dignity without accepting any particular sinful action. That is not something that is a controversial statement.

I think there might be a slight difference of definitions that is leading to some confusion here though. When you say homosexual do you only mean people who are willfully engaging same sex sexual acts (and supportive of it)? The Church cannot and will not every accept same sex sexual acts.

 

[otjm]

So we have to accept homosexuals? Never. I won’t and neither will the church because of divine law and natural law. What? Change natural law and the bibles teaching to fit the social sensitivity of the gay community because of their own selfish evil desires. Never.

Cheers

There is a marked difference between accepting gays (hint: they are people) and accepting sexual activity on the part of gays. You really should learn what the Church teaches.

 

[mdef303]

Have u even read the bible and see what it says about homosexualls? Really. This is what the church teaches. Passion? Yes I ultimately believe you choose to be gay. This is what the Catholic Church states. Homosexuality is treated in Roman Catholic Church teaching under two forms: homosexual orientation is considered an “objective disorder” because Catholicism views it as being “ordered toward an intrinsic moral evil”, but not sinful unless acted upon.[1] Homosexual sexual activity, by contrast, is viewed as a “moral disorder”[1] and “homosexual acts” as “contrary to the natural law. They close the sexual act to the gift of life. They do not proceed from a genuine affective and sexual complementarity.”[2] Lacking passion? Please.

 

[mdef303]

There is a marked difference between accepting gays (hint: they are people) and accepting sexual activity on the part of gays. You really should learn what the Church teaches.

Objective definition. something that one’s efforts or actions are intended to attain or accomplish; purpose; goal; target:

Their efforts are guided to be attracted to same sex. Objective not natural. Understand?

Or am I lacking compassion on the highly sensitive gay community. Please. I’m done Arguing.

 

[at9009]

Yes I ultimately believe you choose to be gay.

Define what you mean by choose to be gay. Do they choose the attractions to others of the same sex or choose to act on those attractions?

 

[mdef303]

An objective evil moral like the church says. listen. Im done. Peace be with you.

 

[clem456]

An objective evil moral like the church says. listen. Im done. Peace be with you.

Acts can be evil. Morality evaluates acts.
Inclinations are not acts.
Inclinations and temptations can be disordered, they are not morally evil in themselves. Christ himself was tempted.
Remember, morality evaluates acts.
Temptations and inclinations can lead to evil, or they might be said to result from some evil.
In Catholic circles, so that coherent discussion can be had, “gay” implies an acting homosexual person, not merely an inclined or attracted person.

I am tempted by my neighbor’s wife. I have not committed an evil because I do not entertain the temptation, and will not act on it.

“SSA” does not explicitly denote the engagement of the will leading to action.
“Gay” does.

ARTICLE 4
THE MORALITY OF HUMAN ACTS

1749 Freedom makes man a moral subject. When he acts deliberately, man is, so to speak, the father of his acts. Human acts, that is, acts that are freely chosen in consequence of a judgment of conscience, can be morally evaluated. They are either good or evil.

I. THE SOURCES OF MORALITY

1750 The morality of human acts depends on: