'I’m gay and I’m a priest, period.’

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Roman Catholic Church teaching under two forms: homosexual orientation is considered an “objective disorder”

Objective. Their goal or desire to be gay. Which in turns to be a disorder according to natural law.
 
Roman Catholic Church teaching under two forms: homosexual orientation is considered an “objective disorder”

Objective. Their goal or desire to be gay. Which in turns to be a disorder according to natural law.
Some confusion there.
Can you see that a “goal” is a movement of the will?
A desire or orientation is not the same as a goal.

I think it could be said that an orientation is not a desire “to be” someone, it is, deep within a person, a passion arising that is not willed.

I don’t know but a few gay people really well, I can tell you that none of them would have chosen the desires that drive them.
They simply have them, for reasons we can argue about til the end of time.
 
Roman Catholic Church teaching under two forms: homosexual orientation is considered an “objective disorder”

Objective. Their goal or desire to be gay. Which in turns to be a disorder according to natural law.
There is no such thing as someone having a “goal or desire to be gay.” That’s like saying that someone has a goal or desire to have brown eyes or be left handed.

I have green eyes but I think today I’m going to have a goal and desire to make my eyes brown!
I’m right handed but I’m going to have a goal and desire to make myself left handed today!
 
An objective is something you plan to achieve. A military objective is the overall plan for a mission. The objective for a bake sale is to raise money. If your objective is to learn a new word, you have succeeded.

Homosexual is a planned disorder. So we are going against what the churches teaches? It’s not a objective disorder? I’ll stick to the Catholic way of teaching and natural law. This is the last post. I’m not arguing because this will go on for days. Peace be with you
 
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Please remember to charitably discuss the issues, not each other
 
An objective is something you plan to achieve. A military objective is the overall plan for a mission. The objective for a bake sale is to raise money. If your objective is to learn a new word, you have succeeded.

Homosexual is a planned disorder. So we are going against what the churches teaches? It’s not a objective disorder? I’ll stick to the Catholic way of teaching and natural law. This is the last post. I’m not arguing because this will go on for days. Peace be with you
Wrong use of the word objectively. Something can be completely unintentional and still objectively disordered.

In the case of CCC §2358, “objectively” means without regard to the subject’s thoughts or feelings.

In other words: same-sex attraction is always disordered no matter what the subject knows, believes, thinks or feels.
 
Its funny how the modern world has become with natural law. Like it doesn’t exist or can be changed OR interepeted differently to means of what they feel is best… smh… We need to look at scripture as the valid source of model to live our lives… no we are not perfect, but natural law is…

Romans 1:26-27[edit]

“ For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompense of their error which was meet.[19]

Chapters 18 and 20 of Leviticus
“You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination.” Chapter 18 verse 22
“If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall surely be put to death; their blood is upon them.” Chapter 20 verse 13[2]

Matthew 19:3
He answered, ‘Have you not read that the one who made them at the beginning “made them male and female” [Genesis 1:27], and said, “For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh” [Genesis 2:24]? So they are no longer two, but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let no one separate.’

If a homosexual were to debate this scripture and interept it to their own evil desires… here is what I can, or everyone else with common sense interept it…

In Matthew 19:12, Jesus speaks of eunuchs who were born as such, eunuchs who were made so by others, and eunuchs who choose to live as such for the kingdom of heaven.

Answer: The eunuchs of the Bible were usually castrated males or those incapable of reproduction due to a birth defect. A eunuch could also be someone who performed work typical of eunuchs, although he remained perfectly capable of having sex—i.e., “eunuch” in some cases was simply a title. The purpose of intentional castration was to induce impotence and remove sexuality. It was a common practice in ancient times for rulers to castrate some of their servants and/or advisers in order to subdue and pacify them. It was especially common to castrate men who tended the royal harem. Queen Esther’s eunuchs are mentioned in Esther 4:4.

In Matthew 19:12, Jesus mentions eunuchs in the context of whether it is good to marry. He says, “There are eunuchs who were born that way, and there are eunuchs who have been made eunuchs by others—and there are those who choose to live like eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven. The one who can accept this should accept it.” Jesus identifies three types of “eunuchs” here: natural eunuchs (“born that way”), forced eunuchs (“made eunuchs by others”), and voluntary eunuchs (“those who choose”).

Natural eunuchs include those who are born with a physical defect, but they also comprise those who are born with no real desire for marriage or sex. Forced eunuchs are those who have been castrated for whatever reason. Voluntary eunuchs are those who, in order to better serve the Lord in some capacity, choose to forego marriage. God calls some people to remain single (and therefore celibate). Paul speaks of those who serve the Lord in their unmarried state in 1 Corinthians 7:7—9.

Some gay groups argue that Jesus was referring to homosexuals when He mentioned eunuchs who were “born that way.” However, the Bible never uses the words homosexual and eunuch interchangeably. Furthermore, eunuchs are never referred to in Scripture as being in sin, while homosexuality is universally condemned in both the Old and New Testaments. As well Homosexuals can have sex and choose men when a woman is the natural way for a man… period…

God Bless.

But we humans feel its right to change the meaning of what the holy perfect gospel teaches… to fit modern society… smh…

Homosexuality is a disease than can be cured… there is no scientific fact stating one is born this way…

Wonder why the highest percent of AIDS is between homosexual men…
…and the rest of Leviticus is too absurd to quote???
 
…and the rest of Leviticus is too absurd to quote???
You think Leviticus, or parts of it are absurd? There are laws that are time bound as in regulations for priests, the protocol of the Temple and sacrifices that do not apply today as well as dietary restrictions that already were revealed to Peter.
 
There is no debating scripture. Period. People choose to be Gay. Men are biologically attracted to woman. This natural law. Gay men “Choose” to be attracted to men. Vice versa for woman. Saying this is natural is a cop out. I forget the bible passage that say that when gay men and woman engage in homosexual activity they become accustomed to it and furthering their disease. When this happens they justify their case as its natural she really it’s not and was their choice all along. Their is no scientific facts that people are born homosexuals. Period. It’s a choice and when this choice develops into a habit it becomes their life. It’s like the criminal that steals. He steals knowing it’s wrong but ignores it and justify it to his own evil desires. Like homosexuals, they act and choose to be this way knowing of natural law but could care less. and know the consequences. AIDS. And a high percent. Maybe this is gods wrath. Who knows but AIDS are the highest in homosexual men. Period. Im out of this thread because too many try to justify the divines words to their own selfish evil desires.

Peace
No, that isn’t natural law, that is biology which has sadly been subject to corruption as a consequence of original sin.
Have u even read the bible and see what it says about homosexualls? Really. This is what the church teaches. Passion? Yes I ultimately believe you choose to be gay. This is what the Catholic Church states. Homosexuality is treated in Roman Catholic Church teaching under two forms: homosexual orientation is considered an “objective disorder” because Catholicism views it as being “ordered toward an intrinsic moral evil”, but not sinful unless acted upon.[1] Homosexual sexual activity, by contrast, is viewed as a “moral disorder”[1] and “homosexual acts” as “contrary to the natural law. They close the sexual act to the gift of life. They do not proceed from a genuine affective and sexual complementarity.”[2] Lacking passion? Please.
That doesn’t make it a choice.
Roman Catholic Church teaching under two forms: homosexual orientation is considered an “objective disorder”

Objective. Their goal or desire to be gay. Which in turns to be a disorder according to natural law.
No, the object of homosexual sexual inclination that is to say gay sex is disordered and thus it is objectively disordered.
 
Biology? No scientific facts stating its a biological disorder. Read genieses I’m not arguing.
 
It is natural law. I’m done. Consequently, the Catholic Church has consistently taught that homosexual acts “are contrary to the natural law. . . . Under no circumstances can they be approved.”9 And your Catholic? I’m literally done with this post. It’s disgusting to see people argue and try to justify the Churches teaching on the subject to their own selfish evil desires. Pray for me.
 
It is natural law. I’m done. Consequently, the Catholic Church has consistently taught that homosexual acts “are contrary to the natural law. . . . Under no circumstances can they be approved.”9 And your Catholic? I’m literally done with this post. It’s disgusting to see people argue and try to justify the Churches teaching on the subject to their own selfish evil desires. Pray for me.
Gay sex is immoral and gay marriage is impermissible, that doesn’t mean that people choose to be gay or that gay people are bad people. Natural law isn’t about biology, it is about morality,
 
There is a lot of scientific information regarding homosexuality. On the biological level even sexual identity is complicated. The Y chromosome alone has 50 million base parts and carries 251 genes. The X chromosome has 153 million parts carrying 1168 genes. You have millions of x’s and y’s carrying over a thousand genes, that can combine in a huge variety of ways.

Homosexuals share notable patterns in two regions of the human genome - one on the X chromosome and one on chromosome 8. Heterosexuals did not. There is a clear, documented physiological difference.

The latest, a large-scale, popular, published studY detail an in-depth analysis of blood and saliva samples taken from 409 pairs of openly gay brothers, including non-identical twins, from 384 families. The only common characteristic shared by all 818 men was being gay.
Knowing this, the researchers theorized that any single nucleotide polymorphisms (SNPs) consistently found among these men would have something to do with sexual orientation.
Interestingly, five uniquely presented SNPs did indeed stand out, expressed in two portions of the human genome.

This confirms huge theory chunks from at least 24 prior credible studies, such as Epigenetics, The Twin studies of Sweden and Australia that everyone learns about in 4th grade bio, and most importantly the sexual dimorphic nuclei in the anterior hypothalamus study from Simon LeVay, in which four groups of neurons in the hypothalamus called INAH1, INAH2, INAH3 and INAH4 - the relevant brain area to test because INAH2 and INAH3 differ in size between men and women, and all 4 regions have been proven conclusive to effect sexual preference in lower mammals - pattern, reflect, record and conduct completely differently in heterosexuals.

Older, lesser studies are still being reanalyzed, too. The National Cancer Institute reported in 1992 or 93 that one or more of the identified genes for homosexuality on the X chromosome (which has 153 Million parts, remember?) had to reside on Xq28. So more than a quarter of a century ago, the actual region in that 153,000,000 part chromosome carrying 1153 unique genes, had been identified.

If someone decides he does not believe in chemotherapy, blood transfusions, vaccines, blood pressure medication, appendix removal, that epileptics are not possessed by the devil, or any of the other medical and scientific advancements and understandings humans have made through the grace of God, and they prefer only to believe the scientific intelligence of man at the time of the Leviticus, fine. That’s their right, and I love them and support them. I don’t need people to agree with me. But when he writes “there is no scientific proof” instead of writing “I choose to reject scientific discoveries that came after refrigeration” it is not a matter of a man’s faith. It’s a matter of his judging others, and lying to them as well as to himself. You can’t say there is no scientific proof, you can only say you choose to pretend it doesn’t exist.

I’m getting this all out now, because even though I just joined this site less than 24 hours ago, I won’t post here again. I’m not Catholic, but I love Mother Mary so much, she is the only reason I didn’t kill myself when I was a teenager, I felt she lead me to her Son and in this direction. And my husband’s very strong family faith and his live-by-example, of understanding, kindness, and forgiveness further inspired me to want to be Catholic.

I’m gay, I’m a 28 year old man, I’m married (lower case m.) I am pro Kim Davies, pro family, pro life. I am against the Marriage Equality Act, I am against homosexuals adopting, I am Republican, Conservative, pro-police.

If you met my husband and I you would never even guess we are gay. We are private, shy, hard working charitable people living a very quiet, respectful, spiritual, non-social life. We don’t drink or smoke or go to bars or socialize with other gay couples. We love our country, our military, and our little house with our little dogs. I’m scared, full of anxiety, I have nightmares, I’m full of questions, and ideas, and I have been longing to friend a good, God-fearing, fair-minded, kind, intelligent spiritual person, hopefully older than I am, to help me. I have no father or grandfather or any family. I grew up in foster care, and was badly sexually abused by not one but two different foster fathers. The only person I’ve ever been with is my husband, and we waited until we were married. (I’m not counting the times I was forced, and the priest that counseled me said I don’t have to count those.)

I have no one I can turn to, so I turned here. I was wrong.

Since I’ve been here, I tried to join one private group about anxiety and I was ignored. I messaged the moderator and introduced myself, and I was ignored. I’ve reached out on two other forums - one to say hi and I got a “hi” back, and one on anger but that got ignored too. Now that I have spent hours reading the very closed-minded, self-righteous, judging posts like some on this thread, I feel like I’m 7 years old and completely helpless and beaten all over again.

These words I’ve read were not written to befriend, they were not intended to be kind. These things are said to be dismissive, and have left me in tears. It’s more hurtful in here then it is out there in the world. If someone wants to message me they can, but don’t worry I won’t try to initiate anything again, and I won’t post again on this or any forum. I came searching for help. I was hoping for a friend and maybe even a mentor. But I get it now. That’s just not what this place is about.

God bless you all.
 
We catholics have no hate toward homosexuals, or anything for that matter. We judge based on actions and moral behaviour. We believe what God revealed through Jesus Christ and the Gospels as the full authority in how one should live their life. Everyone chooses to believe what they want to believe and act how they want.to act. We condemn no one. Only God condemns. But if you are trying to say that we are wrong for believing the bible and all that it says and we are wrong, im sorry you are quietly mistaken. We hold it as the truth and no modern theorys can sway our judgement, at least this goes for me. And sorry their is no scientific evidence of being born homosexual.
 
There is a lot of scientific information regarding homosexuality. On the biological level even sexual identity is complicated. The Y chromosome alone has 50 million base parts and carries 251 genes. The X chromosome has 153 million parts carrying 1168 genes. You have millions of x’s and y’s carrying over a thousand genes, that can combine in a huge variety of ways…
God bless you all.
Hi there. If you have only been here for 24 hours, that is not a lot of time for people to respond to you. The most probable reason is that sharing on a forum is an avocation, the rest of the time being occupied with the pressing problems of day to day existence like work, kids, illness, etc.

I am not going to quote your entire post. One can easily scroll up for reference. However, what causes homosexuality is still different from acting on one’s tendencies. One can also have a predisposition to alcoholism and have a lifelong struggle against that. I know some people with genetic defects that make them more liable to certain diseases but it doesn’t mean they have to get them.

If you see my previous posts, I do refer to the fact that so much of homosexuality comes from neglect, abuse or molestation. This has been admitted to me personally and also one family member in particular who was abused by her father and therefore had a lifelong case against men. Engaging in such behavior repeats and compounds the problem.

An article defending traditional marriage just came in my inbox this morning, so I would like to share it: barbwire.com/2016/03/18/30-home-truths-on-marriage/

*Marriage has always existed to unite a man and a woman as a husband and a wife, and equip them to be a mother and a father if any children arise from their union. If children had nothing to do with marriage then the state would have nothing to do with marriage. But the state has a pressing interest in how the next generation is treated, since society itself is dependent on this.

Marriage is not companionship – many intense emotional relationships exist, but they are not necessarily marriage relationships. The state has no interest in many other sorts of relationships, even emotionally intensive ones. Two elderly sisters living together would have strong emotional attachments to each other, and a fond love for one another. But the state has no interest in legislating concerning such a relationship, primarily because it is non-marital in nature.

Close friendships are also another important type of relationship, but governments have no interest in legislating on their behalf, or extending to them special entitlements reserved for married couples. Societies extend benefits to heterosexual married couples because of all the great benefits such couples give to society.

By seeking to include other types of relationships into the institution of marriage, we of course redefine it and of necessity destroy it. To include two men or two women violates the basic requirement of marriage. There are four such requirements:

only two people
one from each gender
of proper age
not a close blood relative

Meet those four basic criteria, and anyone can marry. Thus everyone is now fully equal in terms of what marriage is. And also, those who fail to meet those criteria are equally discriminated against. I cannot marry, for the simple reason that I am already married. My dog cannot marry. A seven-year-old cannot marry. Three women cannot marry.*

Although some “Christian” denominations think they can rewrite the Bible to conform to political correctness while ignoring the realities of natural law, the Catholic Church does not absolutely recognize same-sex marriage, which is a contradiction in terms.

You may be the rare exception to the rule but I have never seen ONE monogamous gay relationship even when the pair was friendly and cooperative with one another. In particular, among women the psychological dissonance is too severe to overcome.

Given that, no one is persecuting civil unions or just living together as many straight couples already do and have been doing. But that is not the point at all, we are all supposed to embrace and celebrate sight unseen because this is a very shaky premise indeed.
 
Hi there. If you have only been here for 24 hours, that is not a lot of time for people to respond to you. The most probable reason is that sharing on a forum is an avocation, the rest of the time being occupied with the pressing problems of day to day existence like work, kids, illness, etc.

I am not going to quote your entire post. One can easily scroll up for reference. However, what causes homosexuality is still different from acting on one’s tendencies. One can also have a predisposition to alcoholism and have a lifelong struggle against that. I know some people with genetic defects that make them more liable to certain diseases but it doesn’t mean they have to get them.

If you see my previous posts, I do refer to the fact that so much of homosexuality comes from neglect, abuse or molestation. This has been admitted to me personally and also one family member in particular who was abused by her father and therefore had a lifelong case against men. Engaging in such behavior repeats and compounds the problem.

An article defending traditional marriage just came in my inbox this morning, so I would like to share it: barbwire.com/2016/03/18/30-home-truths-on-marriage/

*Marriage has always existed to unite a man and a woman as a husband and a wife, and equip them to be a mother and a father if any children arise from their union. If children had nothing to do with marriage then the state would have nothing to do with marriage. But the state has a pressing interest in how the next generation is treated, since society itself is dependent on this.

Marriage is not companionship – many intense emotional relationships exist, but they are not necessarily marriage relationships. The state has no interest in many other sorts of relationships, even emotionally intensive ones. Two elderly sisters living together would have strong emotional attachments to each other, and a fond love for one another. But the state has no interest in legislating concerning such a relationship, primarily because it is non-marital in nature.

Close friendships are also another important type of relationship, but governments have no interest in legislating on their behalf, or extending to them special entitlements reserved for married couples. Societies extend benefits to heterosexual married couples because of all the great benefits such couples give to society.

By seeking to include other types of relationships into the institution of marriage, we of course redefine it and of necessity destroy it. To include two men or two women violates the basic requirement of marriage. There are four such requirements:

only two people
one from each gender
of proper age
not a close blood relative

Meet those four basic criteria, and anyone can marry. Thus everyone is now fully equal in terms of what marriage is. And also, those who fail to meet those criteria are equally discriminated against. I cannot marry, for the simple reason that I am already married. My dog cannot marry. A seven-year-old cannot marry. Three women cannot marry.*

Although some “Christian” denominations think they can rewrite the Bible to conform to political correctness while ignoring the realities of natural law, the Catholic Church does not absolutely recognize same-sex marriage, which is a contradiction in terms.

You may be the rare exception to the rule but I have never seen ONE monogamous gay relationship even when the pair was friendly and cooperative with one another. In particular, among women the psychological dissonance is too severe to overcome.

Given that, no one is persecuting civil unions or just living together as many straight couples already do and have been doing. But that is not the point at all, we are all supposed to embrace and celebrate sight unseen because this is a very shaky premise indeed.
Spot on. God bless
 
For family reasons I would really like to support gay relationships but after much soul searching I realize that gay sex cannot be considered love.

Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. 5 It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. 6 Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. 7 It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres

During gay sex, at least one of the “participants” will be physically hurt by the activity (even allowing for all the barrier controls that are likely to be put in place) as the body is being used in a way that its not designed to be used.
 
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