'I’m gay and I’m a priest, period.’

[Neithan]

Western society is going through a maelstrom of sexual confusion right now, with the LGBTQ movement in the vanguard. Unfortunately the clergy are caught up along with it. Eventually, when the politicization of this issue relaxes its grip a little on our health care system, we’ll get some more clarity again on how unhealthy homosexuality is. Until then, at least the church’s doctrine maintains a modicum of common sense. The rule on excluding men who have same-sex attractions from ordination is prudent and fitting, since a man who has no desire for a wife and family life is not making the kind of sacrifice that the priesthood embodies.

 

[Thorolfr]

since a man who has no desire for a wife and family life is not making the kind of sacrifice that the priesthood embodies.

But wouldn’t a gay man who has a desire for a same-sex partner and a family with him and becomes a priest instead also be making a sacrifice?

 

[Neithan]

But wouldn’t a gay man who has a desire for a same-sex partner and a family with him and becomes a priest instead also be making a sacrifice?

That’s not a legitimate sacrifice. That’s like giving up a sin for Lent.

(By the way this is just my opinion).

 

[estesbob]

But wouldn’t a gay man who has a desire for a same-sex partner and a family with him and becomes a priest instead also be making a sacrifice?

No.

 

[InSearchofGrace]

Should the Catholic Church ordain gay priests?

charismanews.com/opinion/in-the-line-of-fire/40448-should-the-catholic-church-ordain-gay-priests

…

According to Westin, “Especially after the horrors of the sex abuse crisis, which many have seen to be related to past tolerance of an active gay sub-culture within the Church, the Catholic Church has forbidden even those men with fixed homosexual inclinations from entering the seminary. In November 2005, the Congregation for Catholic Education released the ‘Instruction Concerning the Criteria for the Discernment of Vocation with regard to Persons with Homosexual Tendencies in view of their Admission to the Seminary and to Holy Orders.’

“The Instruction forbade admission to seminary to ‘those who practise homosexuality, present deep-seated homosexual tendencies or support the so-called “gay culture”.’”
Obviously, men like this are not suitable candidates for the priesthood, and it’s hard to believe Pope Francis would now be reversing this policy.

This is not a matter of bigotry toward gays. It’s a matter of common sense.

Responding to the pope’s comments, Cardinal Timothy Dolan stated that a priest’s homosexuality “wouldn’t matter to me as long as one is leading a virtuous and chaste life.” But he also noted there was a potential problem in speaking of gay priests or the like, explaining, “My worry is that we’re buying into the vocabulary that one’s person is one’s sexual identity, and I don’t buy that, and neither does the church.”

To be sure, there are plenty of Christian men who have not experienced change in their same-sex attractions but who have chosen to be celibate, and they are living satisfied, full lives, identifying as Christians who are same-sex attracted rather than as “gay Christians.” (I think of Christopher Yuan, co-author with his mother, Angela, of the moving book Out of a Far Country.)

But that is very different than ordaining into the priesthood men who are struggling with same-sex attraction, thereby putting them all together in the same environment. This would be like heterosexual priests sharing living quarters with heterosexual nuns. How long do you think their vows of celibacy would last?

In the same way, do we really think that a bunch of young gay men living together in a seminary setting will all be saintly enough to keep themselves pure? And is it realistic to think that, later in their ministries, they will not struggle as they work alone with their teenage altar boys? (These are the very environments that celibate, same-sex attracted Christians would avoid.)

And if it was right to condemn the sex scandals that have taken place in the Catholic Church, how can the Church be criticized for refusing to ordain priests with deep-seated homosexual tendencies? (On a side note, in one of the most blatant examples of sticking one’s head in the sand, many gay activists have denied that these sexual abuse scandals had anything to do with homosexuality.)

The simple fact is that those who are dominated by same-sex attraction have no place in the priesthood, and compassion would not put someone in a place of so much temptation, nor would wisdom allow them to be placed in a position of authority where they could hurt others along with themselves.

Any change in this position is a recipe for disaster.

 

[Little_Sheep]

Should the Catholic Church ordain gay priests?

The Catholic Church has clearly answered this question by ordaining quite a few homosexual Priests.

 

[GEddie]

That’s not a legitimate sacrifice. That’s like giving up a sin for Lent.

(By the way this is just my opinion).

And re: an earlier question: The term disordered as used theologically always refers to a behavior or a state of mind, never a human being.

ICXC NIKA

 

[LaughingBoy1503]

I’ve had male roommates- JUST roommates- and didn’t feel a desire to be wanton with them (I’m a woman). Proximity with the gender you find attractive doesn’t necessarily mean sin will follow. You can set your mind to not think that way, the same as a heterosexual person might make the decision to never find a married person attractive - or when they themselves marry to simply not look at the opposite sex that way. There’s a significant amount of choice here- you can choose to let your body control you, or you can control your body. I don’t see much difference between what a straight priest would go through vs what a gay priest would go through- both are expected to put a clamp on their sexual desires.

How does one decide to never find a married person of the opposite sex attractive again? We do not get to decide who we find attractive or not. At least not at first glance. I never knew what it really meant to be “attracted” to women as a man until I tried to stop looking at women so much. I found I could not help myself even if my life depended on it. Like I will notice a woman is good looking, spend a few seconds looking at her and then I will tell myself “Okay, that is enough, dont look at her anymore” and I will be successful for awhile. But then I can forget in less than a minuet and find myself looking at her admiring her beauty all over again even though I had tried to choose not to. If I know a woman is married I am going to try harder to not even spend time admiring her beauty like I would with a single woman but how would I decide to never find a married woman attractive again? We are not robots.

 

[at9009]

How does one decide to never find a married person of the opposite sex attractive again? We do not get to decide who we find attractive or not. At least not at first glance. I never knew what it really meant to be “attracted” to women as a man until I tried to stop looking at women so much. I found I could not help myself even if my life depended on it. Like I will notice a woman is good looking, spend a few seconds looking at her and then I will tell myself “Okay, that is enough, dont look at her anymore” and I will be successful for awhile. But then I can forget in less than a minuet and find myself looking at her admiring her beauty all over again even though I had tried to choose not to. If I know a woman is married I am going to try harder to not even spend time admiring her beauty like I would with a single woman but how would I decide to never find a married woman attractive again? We are not robots.

We are not robot that is true. What I think though is that when two people are in a friendship where God plays a factor, it is easier to keep pure. I’ll give my personal experience. I have a guy who I am close friends with. We started talking a lot and I noticed that I started to develop romantic feelings for (which can’t happen because I’m also a guy). I freaked out a bit because I thought it would destroy the friendship. So, I told him my issues (He already knew about my SSA) and told him that I didn’t want it to get in the way of the friendship. He took it well and we put in extra safeguards to make sure I didn’t get tempted (was easier than for most since we talk mostly online or via videochatting). Overtime, the feelings dissipated and now I feel only genuinely brotherly love for him. He is an attractive guy (I can see that) but now my mind doesn’t take it any further because I guess I care too much for him as a brother that it just stops dead in its tracks. I hope this helps. It wasn’t about repressing my feelings, but realizing that they weren’t in accordance with God’s Will. Then going from there. I think if I had just repressed everything and tried to pretend they didn’t exist, it would have been ultimately toxic for the friendship.

 

[zamyrabyrd]

How does one decide to never find a married person of the opposite sex attractive again? We do not get to decide who we find attractive or not. At least not at first glance. I never knew what it really meant to be “attracted” to women as a man until I tried to stop looking at women so much. I found I could not help myself even if my life depended on it. Like I will notice a woman is good looking, spend a few seconds looking at her and then I will tell myself “Okay, that is enough, don’t look at her anymore” and I will be successful for awhile. But then I can forget in less than a minuet and find myself looking at her admiring her beauty all over again even though I had tried to choose not to. If I know a woman is married I am going to try harder to not even spend time admiring her beauty like I would with a single woman but how would I decide to never find a married woman attractive again? We are not robots.

Exactly, we are not robots. That is why separate dormitories for men and women are recommended. Someone brought up the problem of close proximity in seminaries of those attracted to the same sex. What’s really goofy these days is the push for open restrooms for everyone.

 

[zz912]

But wouldn’t a gay man who has a desire for a same-sex partner and a family with him and becomes a priest instead also be making a sacrifice?

They aren’t a family. They cannot ever conceive children. Period.

 

[Thorolfr]

They aren’t a family. They cannot ever conceive children. Period.

So are you saying that an interfile couple and their adopted children are not a family? Your definition of what makes a family (the two spouses must be able to conceive children together) is an awfully narrow one.

I know a number of same-sex couples who have children, either adopted or the children of one of the two.

 

[ComplineSanFran]

So are you saying that an interfile couple and their adopted children are not a family? Your definition of what makes a family (the two spouses must be able to conceive children together) is an awfully narrow one.

I know a number of same-sex couples who have children, either adopted or the children of one of the two.

We have had this conversation on CAF many, many times. Families are made up of all sorts of people. I have a close friend who is raising her two grandchildren. They are family. Adoptions are frequent, whether there be a mother and father who adopt, or two men or two women, or in many cases single men or women.

There are blended families and there are families by choice rather than by blood.

I vaguely remember the story of a Catholic priest who adopted a child.

 

[I_trust]

We have had this conversation on CAF many, many times. Families are made up of all sorts of people. I have a close friend who is raising her two grandchildren. They are family. Adoptions are frequent, whether there be a mother and father who adopt, or two men or two women, or in many cases single men or women.

There are blended families and there are families by choice rather than by blood.

I vaguely remember the story of a Catholic priest who adopted a child.

That Catholic priest that adopted two children was my pastor. He was a very disobedient priest. It was a complete disaster. The two kids had to be adopted by a family in the parish after a few short years.

A family can be defined any way you choose. It does not make the damage done to the children any less real. Two men living in a sinful, sexually active homosexual relationship does not provide a healthy spiritual upbringing for children. The rights of the children must be considered first, before any desires of the homosexual couple.

 

[zamyrabyrd]

That Catholic priest that adopted two children was my pastor. He was a very disobedient priest. It was a complete disaster. The two kids had to be adopted by a family in the parish after a few short years.

A family can be defined any way you choose. It does not make the damage done to the children any less real. Two men living in a sinful, sexually active homosexual relationship does not provide a healthy spiritual upbringing for children. The rights of the children must be considered first, before any desires of the homosexual couple.

Some of the abuse that comes from the implicit or explicit immorality is mind-boggling. Much of it is repressed by the children themselves because they have to show to the outside world how happy and well adjusted they are, although inside they are longing for normal mothers and fathers. When they grow up, some of them have the courage to admit it.

 

[ComplineSanFran]

That Catholic priest that adopted two children was my pastor. He was a very disobedient priest. It was a complete disaster. The two kids had to be adopted by a family in the parish after a few short years.

A family can be defined any way you choose. It does not make the damage done to the children any less real. Two men living in a sinful, sexually active homosexual relationship does not provide a healthy spiritual upbringing for children. The rights of the children must be considered first, before any desires of the homosexual couple.

I am so sorry to hear about the priest and the two children. It was some time ago and had no idea how it unfolded.

However, that example does not mean that children cannot be loved and cared for by loving adults. It happens all the time. I see the fruits of it all the time.

 

[zamyrabyrd]

I am so sorry to hear about the priest and the two children. It was some time ago and had no idea how it unfolded.
However, that example does not mean that children cannot be loved and cared for by loving adults. It happens all the time. I see the fruits of it all the time.

One cannot judge the “fruits of upbringing” unless intimately involved. There is so much going on behind the scenes even in traditional homes. Good people can emerge from bad families. But not having one’s biological mother and father should be seen as an exception not the rule. It happens that an absent parent may be due to death or desertion and a child is brought up by a single parent, two sisters, or any combination but this is not ideal, far from it, and only a compromise.

 

[LaughingBoy1503]

We are not robot that is true. What I think though is that when two people are in a friendship where God plays a factor, it is easier to keep pure. I’ll give my personal experience. I have a guy who I am close friends with. We started talking a lot and I noticed that I started to develop romantic feelings for (which can’t happen because I’m also a guy). I freaked out a bit because I thought it would destroy the friendship. So, I told him my issues (He already knew about my SSA) and told him that I didn’t want it to get in the way of the friendship. He took it well and we put in extra safeguards to make sure I didn’t get tempted (was easier than for most since we talk mostly online or via videochatting). Overtime, the feelings dissipated and now I feel only genuinely brotherly love for him. He is an attractive guy (I can see that) but now my mind doesn’t take it any further because I guess I care too much for him as a brother that it just stops dead in its tracks. I hope this helps. It wasn’t about repressing my feelings, but realizing that they weren’t in accordance with God’s Will. Then going from there. I think if I had just repressed everything and tried to pretend they didn’t exist, it would have been ultimately toxic for the friendship.

I get what you are saying but you also made my point. We cannot help who we are attracted to at first. We can decide we do not want to have FEELINGS for someone and we can get over those, but still find that person attractive. We cannot say “I want to never find a married person attractive again” and then never find another married person attractive again. What we can do is decide not to act on our attractions. There is a difference. There are plenty of women I found attractive and had feelings for then I decided I did not want to have feelings for them anymore and those feelings went away with time. It does not change the fact I was initially attracted to them.

 

[ComplineSanFran]

One cannot judge the “fruits of upbringing” unless intimately involved. There is so much going on behind the scenes even in traditional homes. Good people can emerge from bad families. But not having one’s biological mother and father should be seen as an exception not the rule. It happens that an absent parent may be due to death or desertion and a child is brought up by a single parent, two sisters, or any combination but this is not ideal, far from it, and only a compromise.

I would say that in the US, there are fewer homes that have a father and a mother and children from that union. It just isn’t the norm anymore. I would also say that the quality of the adults and their intentions toward the children trumps gender or relationship.

 

[zamyrabyrd]

I would say that in the US, there are fewer homes that have a father and a mother and children from that union. It just isn’t the norm anymore. I would also say that the quality of the adults and their intentions toward the children trumps gender or relationship.

You can say all you like but it doesn’t make it objective truth. Two people in an immoral relationship already has a big red X against it. Biological parents for whatever it’s worth have a closeness that can’t be rationalized away, the same with animals who fiercely protect their own offspring. This is the reason adopted children, even in happy homes, still want to find their birth parents.