I’m not a Mormon. Here's why...

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TexanKnight said:
Translation: No Non-LDS Scholar agrees with the LDS Church. No non-LDS expert on Egyptians agree with the LDS Church. Instead, the only people to refute the video are…wait for it…wait for it…LDS Apologists.

THAT should tell you all you need to know.
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I agree!!

I read a few of the “responses” and it seemed to me the video had anticipated them and refuted them. Which makes me wonder how much, if any, of this video was actually watched by Mormons before they responded.
 
Stephen168 said:
I agree!!

I read a few of the “responses” and it seemed to me the video had anticipated them and refuted them. Which makes me wonder how much, if any, of this video was actually watched by Mormons before they responded.
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It is like anything LDS.

Book of Mormon Geography? No one knows where it happened. No one. Speculations range from upper USA to somewhere in South America. No Non-LDS geographer has found anywhere that it could have taken place.

Book of Mormon Archaeology? There has been ZERO archaeological proof of the Book of Mormon. Oh, Mormons will point to vague evidences, but No Non-LDS archaeologist or scientist has verified ANY of it.

Book of Abraham? As the video pointed out, No Non-LDS Egyptologist supports what Joseph has claimed. In fact, they all disprove it.

Now, as a Catholic, I meet people all the time who are atheists. But even Atheistic scientists will support the existence of Biblical Locations.

Think about it.
 
How hard it must be to follow a prophet who has been exposed as a con man and to trust in book with no historical or scientific support.

We all need to pray for our LDS brothers and sisters
 
I watched the video - and i learned some stuff -

I think it was very sad what Joseph Smith did -

I pray for all the souls he misguided!
 
I wonder about the executives in Utah. Do they view this video ( & others)? Do the top 4/5 executive’s already know all the facts in this video? Is the internet a friend to these LDS leaders?
 
MJE said:
I wonder about the executives in Utah. Do they view this video ( & others)? Do the top 4/5 executive’s already know all the facts in this video? Is the internet a friend to these LDS leaders?
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If I was a betting man, I would say that yes, they know, but they lead pretty awesome lives and would never upset the apple cart
 
LivingWaters7 said:
I have watched this video a number of times over the years (it is not a new production). For those that are interested in one Latter-day Saint’s view of the video, please see:

A Response to the Video “The Lost Book of Abraham: Investigating a Remarkable Mormon Claim”, by Michael D. Rhodes, Associate Research Professor, Department of Ancient Scripture, Brigham Young University.

Rhodes also presented on the same topic at an LDS apologetics conference in 2003. The videos of the presentation can be seen here.

There is also a response published by Ben McGuire through FAIR (Foundation for Apologetic Information and Research), which can be read here: Responding To Errors in An Anti-Mormon Film: “The Lost Book of Abraham: Investigating a Remarkable Mormon Claim”.

A few other articles that I find particularly helpful in understanding Latter-day Saint perspective on this issue, and provide fascinating insights into not only the translation of the Book of Abraham, but also insights into the actual text of the scripture, including fascinating parallels with other ancient writings on Abraham that Joseph Smith was of course not aware of in the 1800s include:
  1. “The Jewish Origin of the Book of Abraham” by Jonathan Moyer
  2. “New Light On the Joseph Smith Papyri” by John Gee (Research Professor at Brigham Young University, PhD in Egyptology, Yale University)
  3. A Critical Analysis of The Book of Abraham In Light of Extra-Canonical Jewish Writings by Rabbi Nissim Wernick (PhD Dissertation, Department of Graduate Studies in Religious Instruction, Brigham Young University)
LDS apologist Jeff Lindsay has a series of articles on the Book of Abraham that provide brief summaries of the issues commonly brought up by critics, as well as issues not commonly brought up by critics:
  1. Questions About the Book of Abraham Part 1: Sources of the BoA
  2. Part 2: Evidences For Plausibility
  3. Part 3 (my favorite): Ancient Records Offer New Support For the Book of Abraham
From these articles and videos, we see that the issue of the translation of the Book of Abraham is not as clear cut as the video in the OP would have us believe (and as we see from the reviews of the video, there are quite a number of problems with the arguments it makes and the evidences it presents), and for a book that many critics would have us believe Joseph Smith and/or his associates simply made up in the 1800s, there are many fascinating parallels with other ancient Judeo-Christian extra-canonical works on Abraham, including aspects of Abraham and his life that are not found within the Old Testament record.

I hope this helps for those interested in Latter-day Saint perspectives on the Book of Abraham.
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Are you willing to discuss the specifics of any of the information that you reference above?
 
Interesting there are no Mormons commenting on this thread. You would think there would be at least one defense against the claim of the video.

I suppose it brings up a much larger issue, that being: What is with religions, or any group with a belief or philosophy, that cling pathetically to their faith when faced with obvious truth contradicting their belief?

We need to be charitible of course, and respect their dignity as humans even in humiliation. But do we go so far as to pretend to accept them as rational people and go on believing something that is clearly misguided, and trust them with positions of authority when they clearly believe in something irrational?

What’s more dangerous? Delusional or narcissistic?

We are all faced with that decision now if you get my point.
 
Actually, this book, written in 1812 by the Episcopalian Bishop of Utah, debunks the BoA almost as thoroughly as the video. This infomation has been available for a long time.
archive.org/details/josephsmithjrast00spala
They really didn’t need the actual papyri.
Note that he gave a copy to BYU. I am sure they hid it deep. 😃 A local High Church Episcopalian seminary has a copy.
 
Jerusha said:
Actually, this book, written in 1812 by the Episcopalian Bishop of Utah, debunks the BoA almost as thoroughly as the video. This infomation has been available for a long time.
archive.org/details/josephsmithjrast00spala
They really didn’t need the actual papyri.
Note that he gave a copy to BYU. I am sure they hid it deep. 😃 A local High Church Episcopalian seminary has a copy.
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Great read, thank you.
 
In a similar fashion, I don’t expect a Catholic to lose faith because of “evil popes”
nor will a Muslim because of their history.
Their faith is about how the spirit works through them in their daily lives,
not the sins of historical leaders who were mere mortals
TexanKnight said:
If I was a betting man, I would say that yes, they know, but they lead pretty awesome lives and would never upset the apple cart
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tarboy said:
In a similar fashion, I don’t expect a Catholic to lose faith because of “evil popes”
nor will a Muslim because of their history.
Their faith is about how the spirit works through them in their daily lives,
not the sins of historical leaders who were mere mortals
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not really similar. If a pope was bad, it does not go to the origin of the Catholic Church. If a Priest was bad, it does not affect the origin of the Catholic Church. Especially considering they do not claim a direct hotline to God.

But the conduct of Joseph Smith, the laws he broke, the cheating he did, etc. go right to the origin of the LDS Church. The conduct of BY, etc. DOES matter because they claim to receive DIRECT revelation from God. So when BY says Adam is our God, then either he is right (getting is straight from God) or he is a liar, or he is a false prophet.
 
Fastest growing religion in the US today that church of Joe Smith, Islams doing well also. 🙂
 
GaryTaylor said:
Fastest growing religion in the US today that church of Joe Smith, Islams doing well also. 🙂
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By manipulation of statistics, and constant re-definition of who is a Mormon, the LDS Church proclaims itself the fastest-growing church. By other measures, growth is leveling off. 🤷 Somehow, despite an intensive missionary program, it is just not making headway.
 
It sounded like you believe your argument is relevent because smith was much worse than the evil popes? There are protestants who would disagree 🤷

I’m no expert but i think you are overstating things.
  • outsiders always try to discredit a faith by impinging the character of the leaders
  • A pope is as much a leader of the Catholics as the mormon leader of mormons
  • both churches believe God is the head of the church, not thier current elected leader on earth.
It is fine to expose true facts about past figures, but don’t be a hypocrite when playing that game. It’s not only relevant when the ‘other guy’ does it.
TexanKnight said:
not really similar. If a pope was bad, it does not go to the origin of the Catholic Church. If a Priest was bad, it does not affect the origin of the Catholic Church. Especially considering they do not claim a direct hotline to God.

But the conduct of Joseph Smith, the laws he broke, the cheating he did, etc. go right to the origin of the LDS Church. The conduct of BY, etc. DOES matter because they claim to receive DIRECT revelation from God. So when BY says Adam is our God, then either he is right (getting is straight from God) or he is a liar, or he is a false prophet.
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tarboy said:
It sounded like you believe your argument is relevent because smith was much worse than the evil popes? There are protestants who would disagree 🤷

I’m no expert but i think you are overstating things.
  • outsiders always try to discredit a faith by impinging the character of the leaders
  • A pope is as much a leader of the Catholics as the mormon leader of mormons
  • both churches believe God is the head of the church, not thier current elected leader on earth.
It is fine to expose true facts about past figures, but don’t be a hypocrite when playing that game. It’s not only relevant when the ‘other guy’ does it.
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Nope. You missed my point completely. I am not judging who was worse at all. Insaidmthere is a big difference.

Let me explain

Person 1 claims to be a religious leader who has studied the scriptures.

Person 2 claims to be a religious leader who very often talks to God and receives revelations from God and is God’s new prophet.

Person 1 does bad things

Person 2 does bad things.

Who is “worse”?

I submit Person 2 because of the position he claims to himself and the access he has claims to have with God who speaks directly to him and has even appeared to him.

See what I mean?
 
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