D
deMontfort
Guest
For the record, he knows very well what the answers to those questions are: He simply acting dumb in an effort to play pedantic word games to muddy the waters. I’m not playing those games.
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D
deMontfort
Guest
Reported for harassment.deMontfort:
Well then .
Please go ahead and report .
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CampionTheChampion
Guest
Is there eternal weeping and gnashing of teeth involved?
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Regarding my question “And if he did what did he mean by Gehenna ?”
I have read various opinions about what Gehenna means , and in truth I do not know which , if any , is correct .
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thistle
Guest
Just an expression. There will be eternal suffering.
T
thistle
Guest
These are just two of many times Jesus spoke about those who will be cast into Hell FOREVER.
Matthew 25:
40 And the king will say to them in reply, ‘Amen, I say to you, whatever you did for one of these least brothers of mine, you did for me.’
41 Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you accursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.
42 For I was hungry and you gave me no food, I was thirsty and you gave me no drink,
43 a stranger and you gave me no welcome, naked and you gave me no clothing, ill and in prison, and you did not care for me.’
44 Then they will answer and say, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or ill or in prison, and not minister to your needs?’
45 He will answer them, ‘Amen, I say to you, what you did not do for one of these least ones, you did not do for me.’
46 And these will go off to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life."
Matthew 13:
40 Just as weeds are collected and burned (up) with fire, so will it be at the end of the age.
41 The Son of Man will send his angels, and they will collect out of his kingdom 21 all who cause others to sin and all evildoers.
42 They will throw them into the fiery furnace, where there will be wailing and grinding of teeth.
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CampionTheChampion
Guest
Haha! That was meant to be in reference to deMontfort’s reporting of Rob2. I think I forgot to hit the quote button. Haha, so deMontfort will BAN Rob2 to where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth!
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CampionTheChampion
Guest
I’ve seen it is possible to render this verse differently. For example, “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you accursed, into the fire of the Age prepared for the devil and his angels.’”
Age can be an unspecified duration.
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steve-b
Guest
Re: Gehenna, open the link for explanationdeMontfort:
Who did Jesus threaten ?
And if he did what did he mean by Gehenna ?
See γέενναν, Gehenna, Hell, lake of fire, eternal fire, etc , it appears 16 times in the Gospels.
10 times in Matthew
3 times in Mark
3 times in Luke
1 time in James
1 time in Rev.
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steve-b
Guest
Jesus doesn’t mince words
Mt 5:29-30
Mt 10:28
Mt 13:38-42
Mt 13:49-50
Mt 23:15
Mt 23:33
Mt 25:28-30
Mt 25:41
Mt 25:46
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T
thistle
Guest
Who gives such an interpretation and how does that differ?
Jesus talked more than once about Hell being FOREVER.
The Church infallibly teaches that Hell is forever and that anyone dying in a state of mortal sin goes immediately to Hell and is there FOREVER.
Your profile says you are Catholic. For a Catholic to reject/deny/stubbornly doubt an infallible teaching is heresy.
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Vico
Guest
Lyons I (1245 A.D.), Lyons II (1274 A.D.), Florence (1439 A.D.), and Pope Benedict XII Benedictus Deus (1336 A.D.) taught that everyone who dies in a state of mortal sin goes immediately to suffer the eternal punishments of hell.
St. Pope John Paul II expressed in 1999:
http://w2.vatican.va/content/john-paul-ii/en/audiences/1999/documents/hf_jp-ii_aud_28071999.html
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Latin
Guest
Continuation
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IT IS VERY CLEAR IN THE SCRIPTURE, AND IN THE CATHOLIC SOTERIOLOGY, OUR SALVATION IS GOD’S CHOICE AND HIS UNDESERVED FREE GIFT.
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John 15:16; You did not chose Me, but I chose you.
Acts 13:48; … As many as were ordained to eternal life believed.
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Phil.2:13; “For it is God who works in you BOTH TO WILL and TO ACT for His good pleasure.”
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CCC 155; In faith, the human intellect and will cooperate with divine grace: "Believing is an act of the intellect assenting to the divine truth by command of the will MOVED by God through grace."
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(Thomas Aquinas, S. Th.II/II 4, 4 ad 3). God effects everything, the willing and the achievement, therefore, we are called to strive (cf. Phil 2:12 ff). "
CCC 2022; “The divine initiative in the work of grace PRECEDES, PREPARES, and ELICITS the free response of man. …”
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Aquinas said, “God changes the will without forcing it.
But he can change the will from the fact that He himself operates in the will as He does in nature,” De Veritatis 22:9.
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If you CampionTheChampion or anyone else has any question about the above post please ask.
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Latin
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IT IS VERY CLEAR IN THE SCRIPTURE, AND IN THE CATHOLIC SOTERIOLOGY, OUR SALVATION IS GOD’S CHOICE AND HIS UNDESERVED FREE GIFT.
.
John 15:16; You did not chose Me, but I chose you.
Acts 13:48; … As many as were ordained to eternal life believed.
.
Phil.2:13; “For it is God who works in you BOTH TO WILL and TO ACT for His good pleasure.”
.
CCC 155; In faith, the human intellect and will cooperate with divine grace: "Believing is an act of the intellect assenting to the divine truth by command of the will MOVED by God through grace."
.
(Thomas Aquinas, S. Th.II/II 4, 4 ad 3). God effects everything, the willing and the achievement, therefore, we are called to strive (cf. Phil 2:12 ff). "
CCC 2022; “The divine initiative in the work of grace PRECEDES, PREPARES, and ELICITS the free response of man. …”
.
Aquinas said, “God changes the will without forcing it.
But he can change the will from the fact that He himself operates in the will as He does in nature,” De Veritatis 22:9.
.
If you CampionTheChampion or anyone else has any question about the above post please ask.
.
Latin
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thistle
Guest
No. Salvation is OUR choice. God gave us the freewill to choose.
Christ died on the Cross to redeem us and give us the opportunity for salvation but it is our choice to cooperate with the grace God gave us. If we choose not to cooperate and die in a state of mortal sin we go immediately to Hell. If we choose to cooperate and die in a state of grace we are saved.
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Latin
Guest
Thank you for your post Thistle.Latin:
No. Salvation is OUR choice. God gave us the freewill to choose.
Christ died on the Cross to redeem us and give us the opportunity for salvation but it is our choice to cooperate with the grace God gave us. If we choose not to cooperate and die in a state of mortal sin we go immediately to Hell. If we choose to cooperate and die in a state of grace we are saved.
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CCCS 1996-1998; This call to eternal life is supernatural, coming TOTALLY from God’s decision and surpassing ALL power of human intellect and will.
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ST. AUGUSTINE ON GRACE AND PREDESTINATION
De gratia Christi 25, 26:
"For not only has God given us our ability and helps it, but He even works [brings about] willing and acting in us; not that we do not will or that we do not act, but that without His help we neither will anything good nor do it."
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De gratia et libero arbitrio 16, 32:
"It is certain that we will when we will; but He brings it about that we will good. . . . It is certain that we act when we act, but He brings it about that we act, PROVIDING MOST EFFECTIVE POWERS TO THE WILL."
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Of course, AFTER God has chosen us, by His graces described above WE ARE ALL FREELY choose God as well. – But NOT BEFORE this is the key to understand.
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Do you agree Thistle with Jesus and with the above teachings of the Catholic Church?
John 15:16; You did not chose Me, but I chose you.
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T
thistle
Guest
The Catholic Church teaches that Christ died to REDEEM everyone. Thereafter it is their choice if they want to cooperate in God’s grace for their salvation.
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