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missouricitizen
Guest
I am a Protestant I don’t think Protestant Christianity is true I am trying to decide between Roman Catholic Christianity and or Eastern Orthodox Christianity how do I decide thank you ?
I am a Protestant I don't think Protestant Christianity is true?
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ConstantineTG
Guest
Why not become Eastern Catholic and be Orthodox in communion with Rome
Discern. Do your research then talk to a priest who will answer your questions.
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truthsave
Guest
Pray for having an heart and mind opened, and try not to be seduced by anything expecially (in my opinion ) from priests since in your research you can meet a priest more charismatic or inspired then another.
Take time to read history and the father of the church, and so on.
In my opinion, very very personal, protestant based only in the writing are farther away from the Christin message, since there are too many things that are not written but that survive in traditions. For many primitive populations traditions were the only way to keep their culture alive.
May God bless you in your quest.
Take time to read history and the father of the church, and so on.
In my opinion, very very personal, protestant based only in the writing are farther away from the Christin message, since there are too many things that are not written but that survive in traditions. For many primitive populations traditions were the only way to keep their culture alive.
May God bless you in your quest.
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Heuchler
Guest
I really comes down to do you believe that Christ set up Peter as the Pope in Matthew 16 and if the Apostles acknowledged him as their leader (which there is evidence for) or if you believe he was not the Pope. Really you just need to pray and ask God to lead you to his Church. Good luck and God bless.
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Swiss_Guy
Guest
Catholic Church is united. Eastern Orthodox are divided. Case closed.
But if this is your dilemma, why not become an Easten Catholic - eastern expression of faith yet still in communion with Rome.
But if this is your dilemma, why not become an Easten Catholic - eastern expression of faith yet still in communion with Rome.
po18guy
Well-known member
If you are a reader, Rome Sweet Home by Dr. Scott Hahn is excellent. However, you may also watch interviews with fellow Protestants who have converted to the Catholic Church on the Coming Home Network. Some of those interviews are also on EWTN.
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Formosus
Guest
My suggestion is go to many Roman Catholic churches( eastern Catholic churches as well if you are interested in the East) and many Eastern Orthodox churches. Discern and discover where God desires you to go.
@Swiss Guy,
The EO churches are united in the faith. They are not divided like you suggest.
@Swiss Guy,
The EO churches are united in the faith. They are not divided like you suggest.
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Ridgerunner
Guest
As one Missourian to another, I will confide to you that I don’t know the answer to your question. But it is something about which I have given considerable thought since one of my adult daughters is very attracted to Eastern Catholicism and, frankly, I find it attractive in many ways myself. I would not personally consider Orthodoxy for a number of reasons; among them the close identification with states and ethnicity, their divisions over what I perceive as very little and the hostility of one toward another.
But my main reason for remaining “Latin” (as opposed to even Eastern Catholicism) is that,in blood and bone I AM a Latin; by heritage, by culture, and by inclination.
What does that mean? Well, certainly all my forbears were Latin Catholics; Irish, Italian and Alsatian. All of those groups are culturally “Roman” in the sense that their languages, their modes of expression, their ways of thinking are all far more influenced by the Latin heritage than by anything else. Our very street layouts, our general preference for being clean-shaved and with short hair, our language, our architecture, our laws and concepts of what laws ought to be, our monetary concepts, our trade concepts, our ideas of governance, our admiration for efficient engineering and technical proficiency, our practicality, our ways of reasoning, all are Latin to the core, if one considers “Greco-Roman” ways to be Latin. And notwithstanding the “Greco” part of it, the heritage of Greece is, in a sense, no longer the heritage of the place named Greece or the Orthodoxy that arose from it. There is more of classic Greece in Edinburgh or Calgary or Kansas City now than there is in Athens.
“We Latins” have particular views of the relationship between the physical and the spiritual. Look at the interiors of churches. Latin churches, as compared to Eastern churches, are rather spare and symmetrical. (something Protestantism took to a lifeless extreme in my opinion) Our statues and paintings are lifelike and celebrate the Divine in humanness as we see humanness with our eyes. Icons in Eastern churches are not lifelike, rarely full, without perspective. They are not “what we see with our eyes”. True, those Eastern images have a very different purpose. They are “invitations” into a transcendent experience of the Divine. Eastern liturgies are mystical and mesmerizing. There is good to that, and I’m not criticizing it. “Latin” liturgies are logical, literal, and direct. Eastern liturgies are aclutter and half hidden by iconastasis. Latin liturgies are out in the open, plain to see and intended to be seen. Again, not putting the Easterners down, but I am more comfortable worshipping in the latter than in the former.
Even the liturgical garments. You look at the Latin vestments; simple even when most ornate; very Roman, actually rather functional. You look at Eastern vestments; ornate beyond belief, beautiful but to a Westerner like me, well, just a bit too much.
Frankly, while I admire much in the Eastern churches, I know what I am. I know I cannot truly ever be anything but a “Latin” person, in every way there is to be one. I can study Eastern mysticism. But I can also study Western mysticism, and it’s easier for me to relate to the latter than to the former. I can study Western philosphy and theology and “get it” readily. Eastern writings just make my mind sort of swirl.
So, while I would not discourage you from seeking your home in Eastern Catholicism, I will caution that it’s, well, very Eastern, and might not quite fit the way your mind works. Westerners, like Easterners, have had centuries of a particular cultural way of looking at things, and we should not discount the effect it has had on us.
But my main reason for remaining “Latin” (as opposed to even Eastern Catholicism) is that,in blood and bone I AM a Latin; by heritage, by culture, and by inclination.
What does that mean? Well, certainly all my forbears were Latin Catholics; Irish, Italian and Alsatian. All of those groups are culturally “Roman” in the sense that their languages, their modes of expression, their ways of thinking are all far more influenced by the Latin heritage than by anything else. Our very street layouts, our general preference for being clean-shaved and with short hair, our language, our architecture, our laws and concepts of what laws ought to be, our monetary concepts, our trade concepts, our ideas of governance, our admiration for efficient engineering and technical proficiency, our practicality, our ways of reasoning, all are Latin to the core, if one considers “Greco-Roman” ways to be Latin. And notwithstanding the “Greco” part of it, the heritage of Greece is, in a sense, no longer the heritage of the place named Greece or the Orthodoxy that arose from it. There is more of classic Greece in Edinburgh or Calgary or Kansas City now than there is in Athens.
“We Latins” have particular views of the relationship between the physical and the spiritual. Look at the interiors of churches. Latin churches, as compared to Eastern churches, are rather spare and symmetrical. (something Protestantism took to a lifeless extreme in my opinion) Our statues and paintings are lifelike and celebrate the Divine in humanness as we see humanness with our eyes. Icons in Eastern churches are not lifelike, rarely full, without perspective. They are not “what we see with our eyes”. True, those Eastern images have a very different purpose. They are “invitations” into a transcendent experience of the Divine. Eastern liturgies are mystical and mesmerizing. There is good to that, and I’m not criticizing it. “Latin” liturgies are logical, literal, and direct. Eastern liturgies are aclutter and half hidden by iconastasis. Latin liturgies are out in the open, plain to see and intended to be seen. Again, not putting the Easterners down, but I am more comfortable worshipping in the latter than in the former.
Even the liturgical garments. You look at the Latin vestments; simple even when most ornate; very Roman, actually rather functional. You look at Eastern vestments; ornate beyond belief, beautiful but to a Westerner like me, well, just a bit too much.
Frankly, while I admire much in the Eastern churches, I know what I am. I know I cannot truly ever be anything but a “Latin” person, in every way there is to be one. I can study Eastern mysticism. But I can also study Western mysticism, and it’s easier for me to relate to the latter than to the former. I can study Western philosphy and theology and “get it” readily. Eastern writings just make my mind sort of swirl.
So, while I would not discourage you from seeking your home in Eastern Catholicism, I will caution that it’s, well, very Eastern, and might not quite fit the way your mind works. Westerners, like Easterners, have had centuries of a particular cultural way of looking at things, and we should not discount the effect it has had on us.
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truthsave
Guest
I really liked Ridgerunner answer since it showed me as same thinking can bring you to different choice depending on what you are seeking and expecially what do youthink is going to help you to bring your best out to follow the message of our Saviour.
Like Ridgerunner I am a Latin, Italian, so my being is strongly influenced by this way of thinking and being and from this culture.
I was baptized in the roman Catholic Church as many Italians stoped going to church after athe young age when you go with your mother.
Then some important things brought me back to Christianity and I became Eastern Orthodox mainly for the same reason Ridgerunner is listing.
I personally felt I want to be more away as possible from “myself” from trying to listen and believing better since I could understand better. I said to myself: I cannot understand God, so what if I don’t understand a language. I have only to pray. If I cannot stand not understanding a language how could I stand not being able to fully understanding God?
So for me was like a question of forcing myself into a very needed humbleness.
You see it is very personal.
One of my best friend is Roman Catholic and I never, never say or think he is wrong in his beliefs. When we talk we talk how to be closer to Christ and not how I philosophically see this or that. Sometimes we do but we do it as a sport not as a polemic attidute.
We are humans and like the apostols sometimes we would like to know who is the greatest among us. (sorry cannot make the citation but the happening is in one of the four evangile, maybe a prophetic )
Like Ridgerunner I am a Latin, Italian, so my being is strongly influenced by this way of thinking and being and from this culture.
I was baptized in the roman Catholic Church as many Italians stoped going to church after athe young age when you go with your mother.
Then some important things brought me back to Christianity and I became Eastern Orthodox mainly for the same reason Ridgerunner is listing.
I personally felt I want to be more away as possible from “myself” from trying to listen and believing better since I could understand better. I said to myself: I cannot understand God, so what if I don’t understand a language. I have only to pray. If I cannot stand not understanding a language how could I stand not being able to fully understanding God?
So for me was like a question of forcing myself into a very needed humbleness.
You see it is very personal.
One of my best friend is Roman Catholic and I never, never say or think he is wrong in his beliefs. When we talk we talk how to be closer to Christ and not how I philosophically see this or that. Sometimes we do but we do it as a sport not as a polemic attidute.
We are humans and like the apostols sometimes we would like to know who is the greatest among us. (sorry cannot make the citation but the happening is in one of the four evangile, maybe a prophetic )
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Ridgerunner
Guest
This is really interesting. Actual church attendance in “Catholic” countries like Italy is a little higher but not much higher than it is in “Orthodox” countries like Russia, though both are higher than in "Protestant’ countries like Sweden.
But that is not, in my opinion, due to defects in Catholicism or Orthodoxy. (Protestants can explain Sweden if they wish) It is due to the terrible influences of secular materialism that one might (if one wished) trace to the “Enlightenment” philosophes, primarily in France but well reflected in Prussia’s Frederick and Russia’s Catherine. One can see even the roots of Marxism (which devastated Orthodoxy, and still does) in that. Secular materialism is pagan to its core.
Attendance of Catholics in the U.S. is much higher; in Africa higher still. I have never seen statistics on it, but I suspect Orthodox attendance and Eastern Catholic attendance in the U.S. is probably higher than in any of their “parent” countries, precisely because the people in the U.S. never really went through the society-shattering paroxysms of secular materialism that afflicted Europe in the late 19th and early 20th centuries.
I am one who believes that one’s chosen confirmation name tells a lot about the person, perhaps things the person does not know about oneself. I, for example, chose the name “Patrick”. Part of that, I am sure, is because of my mostly Irish heritage. But as my life has developed, I have come to realize there was likely more to it than that. Long ago, I asked my father what his confirmation name was. It was “Francis”, after St. Francis of Assisi, a saint you would perhaps identify with more than I would or did. A more gentle man; more mystical, more introspective.
My father was a much more mystical (and gentle) sort of man than I turned out to be. He was much more inclined to accept life as it was; a wilderness from which he sought peace inwardly. I, on the other hand, am always trying to “chase the snakes out of Ireland”, so to speak; particularly in my own life. He would have been much more inclined to Eastern Catholicism than I could ever be.
Nobody is wrong here, in an absolute sense. There are many flowers in God’s garden. While I cannot accept Orthodoxy (and do not wish to get in a fight about it here…been there, done that) I can say that I have no brook with Eastern Catholicism which is very like Orthodoxy with some exceptions. Eastern ways of thinking just aren’t me. It isn’t how I think, and it’s not how I relate to the Savior who saves me from myself seven times a day and more.
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ConstantineTG
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truthsave
Guest
Very interesting.
Thank you.
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Swiss_Guy
Guest
Eastern ways of thinking aren’t me either. I don’t know why.
But I don’t think church attendance is higher here in America for Catholics than in, say, Monaco or Poland. For me it’s just hard to lump Europe together because there are so many different regions and it has such a rich Christian history. Also, I’d bet church attendance is higher in Lucerne and Berne than it is here, but lower in Geneva and Zurich. It all just depends. But if you do lump all of Europe together, then we have no argument.
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Jim_Dandy
Guest
Only the Catholic Church is headed by Peter and his successors, upon whom the Lord built His Church (Matthew 16:18-19). You can’t become generic “Orthodox.” Your choice is to become one of the 16 (I think) flavors of Orthodoxy – Greek Orthodox, Russian Orthodox, Romanian Orthodox, Serbian Orthodox, Ukrainian Orthodox, etc. Orthodoxy is a collection of ethnic, national Churches. The head of each Orthodox Church (each patriarch) is equal to all the other patriarchs and can make decisions only for his own ethnic, national Church.
Let me recommend Born Fundamentalist, Born Again Catholic, by David Currie, a former Protestant.
Investigate, study, and then decide.
Let me recommend Born Fundamentalist, Born Again Catholic, by David Currie, a former Protestant.
Investigate, study, and then decide.
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Formosus
Guest
Can you become Generic Catholic then? Let’s take what you said from an Orthodox POV
“Only the Orthodox Church is headed by Christ and the successors of his apostles on Earth. You can’t become generic “Catholic”. Your choice is to become one of 22 (I think) flavors of Catholicism–Roman Catholic, Russian Catholic, Romanian Catholic, Coptic Catholic, Ukrainian Catholic, etc. Catholicism is a collection of ethnic, national churches. The head of the Catholic Church is the Pope who ultimately has all the decision making power regardless of what the other Bishops think.”
I think its fair to point out to the poster that there are major differences between Roman Catholicism, Eastern Catholicism(s), and Eastern Orthodoxy. We don’t need to go into polemics to get these points across.
To the OP.
Roman Catholicism is probably the one that a protestant might identify most with. The western theological mindset is very similar between protestantism and Roman Catholicism. Roman Catholicism has a strong concept of central authority in the form of the Pope. The Pope acts as the center point of unity, defining Dogma and approving of Ecumenical Councils.
Eastern Catholicism has all the benefits of being Eastern, and the benefits of being in communion with Rome. BUT it has all the negatives of both Eastern Orthodoxy and Roman Catholicism at the same time. Our churches have a constant struggle from outside and within over our identity and our role in the wider Christian world. We think theologically in a communion that’s primary mode of thought is western.
Eastern Orthodoxy has a very different mindset from the west. They understand concepts like authority, and church law very differently. In the Eastern Orthodox world, the local diocese is the fullness of the universal Church. The Patriarchial Synods (not just the Patriarchs) govern the relationships between different dioceses within particular regions as well as handle relationships with neighboring regions. The Bishop is the ultimate authority in his own diocese. Even if the Patriarch wishes to visit the diocese of one of his brother Bishops, he must ask and receive permission from that particular bishop. In the Eastern Orthodox tradition, each bishop is ultimately equal with all other Bishops. Some say this is disunity, in reality the Orthodox Church is very much united on the matters of faith. Occasionally Bishops may get into small fights with other Bishops, but this rarely if ever affects the individual Orthodox Christian.
Simply put, people here are going to present facts in a biased manner. I suggest you prayerfully discern, go to Divine Liturgy and Mass, read some introductory books on the subjects if you think it will help, but most importantly trust in God and He will lead you where He wants you.
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Formosus
Guest
You can’t become generic Catholic either, unless you are suggesting that Roman Catholics are the generic Catholic and that us eastern catholics are just ethnic churches that are tolerated for the sake of unity
.The Catholic Church has plenty of “ethnic churches”, and even has ethnic churches within churches (ever seen a hispanic parish or a polish parish)?
Either way, this is the third time I have posted on this thread, and the moderators or powers at be seem to find my posts offensive and keep deleting them, but I will say the same message I said before.
If you want to know where God is leading you, then I suggest you visit and pray in Roman, Eastern Catholic, and Eastern Orthodox parishes. Discern and find out where God is calling you to be. If you have questions about Eastern Orthodoxy or Eastern Catholicism please feel free to PM me. It seems if I mention anything too positive towards them here my post will get deleted.
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truthsave
Guest
(Edited)
I personally don’t like the convincing and proselytizing attitude you could find in somebody when they try to talk about their religion. A religion is for the soul not for the brain. Of course you shouldn’t believe in stupidity, but I hope you get the point I would like to make.
There is something higher then rationality, and higher then our personal feeling, our heart, that can be moved by certain representation or other, it is this higher then human thing that should be in a religion, but since it is not for everyone we tend to exercise in our own religion all our weakness and secular mistakes.
Religion become politics, with politics you involve a feeling of power, you loose over your idea or you gain, and then falling in a seduction business.
Don’t be afraid in choosing Roman Catholicism over Eastern Orthodox or whatever is close to Christ message. The difficulty is not is choosing but in becoming a real Christ follower.
I personally don’t like the convincing and proselytizing attitude you could find in somebody when they try to talk about their religion. A religion is for the soul not for the brain. Of course you shouldn’t believe in stupidity, but I hope you get the point I would like to make.
There is something higher then rationality, and higher then our personal feeling, our heart, that can be moved by certain representation or other, it is this higher then human thing that should be in a religion, but since it is not for everyone we tend to exercise in our own religion all our weakness and secular mistakes.
Religion become politics, with politics you involve a feeling of power, you loose over your idea or you gain, and then falling in a seduction business.
Don’t be afraid in choosing Roman Catholicism over Eastern Orthodox or whatever is close to Christ message. The difficulty is not is choosing but in becoming a real Christ follower.
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cooterhein
Guest
Swiss Guy, if I may. A couple of questions. Semi-rhetorical, I must admit.
Without getting too verbose or technical…you guys are in schism with those guys. This is the opposite of unity, is it not?
Ok, question two: How can you say the Catholic Church is united…while talking about the people you’re divided from in the very same breath?
One more bonus question. The one who is posing these questions to you is a Protestant. Do you see the irony of this situation?
Yes? No? Maybe?
Are you confused? Is this portion unclear in any way?
Tell you what, ask one of your Orthodox friends to find their equivalent of “me” and see what it looks like when they do it. That will help you immensely.
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Ridgerunner
Guest
Swiss can respond for himself. I might at least clarify, however, that there is “unity” and “unity”, and not all unities or disunities are the same. The Catholic Church fully recognizes the validity of Orthodox sacraments, orders and apostolic succession. In that sense, at least, there is “unity”. From the Catholic standpoint, it isn’t a sharp division like the one between, say, Catholicism and Methodism. From the Orthodox standpoint, (and it varies) there is admittedly less “unity” than there is from the Catholic standpoint.
But it also has to be recognized that the question you pose cannot reasonably be answered inasmuch as it assumes a unity which the question itself denies. It’s like asking how E=MC squared can be both true and false at the same time and in the same way.
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cooterhein
Guest
That’s why it’s semi-rhetorical. I’m strongly implying that Swiss Guy has effectively stated that the Catholic Church is not in a state of schism, when evidently, it is.
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