I am a Protestant who wants an honest answer

[Pax]

** As we worship Christ He is present spiritually, not physically. In fact, Jesus can only be bodily present at one place at one time. His omnipresence refers only to His spirit. It is impossible for Christ to be bodily present in thousands of Catholic Churches around the world. **
**When Jesus is received spiritually, one time in the heart, there is no need to receive him physically, over and over again in the stomach. **

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In Christ Alone,
Mike
​

This is one of the most idiotic things I have seen in a long time. Jesus Christ is divine. He is the second person of the blessed Trinity. When he says something it happens. In Isaiah 55:11 God says,…“so shall my word be that goes forth from my mouth; it shall not return to me empty, but it shall accomplish that which I purpose, and prosper in the thing for which I sent it.”

Now when God said, “Let there be light” there was light. When God sent his word, Jesus became flesh. When God says something it happens. When Jesus said He would give us His body and blood as true food and true drink he meant it. If you do not believe what Jesus said in John Chapter 6 then you are like Judas and the others mentioned in John 6:64 where the Lord says, " ‘But there are some of you that do not believe.’ For Jesus knew from the first who those were that did not believe, and who it was that would betray him." Now think about it. Some left Jesus because they didn’t believe Him. And although Judas stayed he didn’t believe Jesus either. He wasn’t speaking figuratively and they weren’t mistaken about any of it. They simply didn’t believe His literal words any more than you do.
You completely misunderstand verse 63 where it says, “It is the spirit that gives life, the flesh is of no avail; the words that I have spoken to you are spirit and life.” You don’t see what Jesus means by spirit and life. You think he means that His words are symbolic. This is crazy. There is no place in scripture where the word spirit means “symbolic.” Besides look at what the verse says. The terminology includes “the flesh is to no avail.” This means that nothing is by human effort. It does not refer to the flesh of Jesus. The bread that Jesus says he will give us to eat is the same flesh that will be offered up for the sins of the world[see verse 51]. If Jesus is only speaking symbolically in giving us His flesh to eat and His blood to drink, then His flesh that hangs upon the cross, as pointed out in verse 51, must also be symbolic. None of what you claim tracks at all with the discourse on the bread of life. It is nothing but a modern heretical disputation against the very words of Jesus Himself. It is a heretical disputation against the clear teachings of the apostles. It is a clear heretical disputation against all of the early Church Fathers that were taught by the apostles themselves.

The scriptures are against you, history is against you, and the Church of Jesus Christ (i.e. the Catholic Church) is against you. There is no chance that I or any knowledgeable Catholic will ever be convinced by the silly challenge that you mounted. None of it makes any real sense and it is clearly against scripture and tradition.​

 

[Philthy]

xrc:

The idea of sola scriptura is simply this - for matters of doctrine, faith, and morality the written word of God is the ultimate authority.

Mike-

We all know what Sola Scriptura is. We also know it isn’t mentioned in the bible and it was not part of Christian tradition and that it does not result in unity of faith on most fundamental issues. The problem is that interpretation of any statement is required. Does everybody get to interpret the bible for themselves? Who gets to decide ultimately when the “proper” interpretation has been reached?
We could pick almost any topic and I could show you variation of opinion among “bible” Christians who unashamedly claim allegiance to the word of God. Take contraception for example.
Have you ever read what Luther, Calvin, Wesley, and the ECFs had to say? I mean, talk about scathing condemnations!

From Catholic Answers Library:

The apostolic tradition’s condemnation of contraception is so great that it was followed by Protestants until 1930 and was upheld by all key Protestant Reformers. Martin Luther said, “[T]he exceedingly foul deed of Onan, the basest of wretches . . . is a most disgraceful sin. It is far more atrocious than incest and adultery. We call it unchastity, yes, a sodomitic sin. For Onan goes in to her; that is, he lies with her and copulates, and when it comes to the point of insemination, spills the semen, lest the woman conceive. Surely at such a time the order of nature established by God in procreation should be followed. Accordingly, it was a most disgraceful crime. . . . Consequently, he deserved to be killed by God. He committed an evil deed. Therefore, God punished him.”

John Calvin said, “The voluntary spilling of semen outside of intercourse between man and woman is a monstrous thing. Deliberately to withdraw from coitus in order that semen may fall on the ground is doubly monstrous. For this is to extinguish the hope of the race and to kill before he is born the hoped-for offspring.”

John Wesley warned, “Those sins that dishonor the body are very displeasing to God, and the evidence of vile affections. Observe, the thing which he [Onan] did displeased the Lord—and it is to be feared; thousands, especially of single persons, by this very thing, still displease the Lord, and destroy their own souls.” (These passages are quoted in Charles D. Provan, The Bible and Birth Control, which contains many quotes by historic Protestant figures who recognize contraception’s evils.)

Now let me ask you this: Has the word of God changed? Then how can it be that most Protestant churches no longer “see” the sin of contraception in Scripture? Something is not right with this system Mike. Why do Protestant doctrines change if the word of God doesn’t?

Phil

ps Blue is better, but lose the bold.

 

[Catherine_S]

aridite:

Oops, you beat me to it.

What really bothers me is that there are so many protestents… like this fellow being instructed (used really) to get on Catholic web-sites and do this kind of stuff. They are insulting …disrespectful…arrogant and sometimes just plain rude most of the time.** I do not think that we are being charitable or prudent when we allow them so much time.** We need to use their methods to avoid them. There is no sincerity in them. Here is how their web-site is set up**…before** you can even registar…I too…checked them out.

The Purpose of this board is to EXPOSE the false teaching of Catholicism in light of Scripture. It is not to examine the beliefs of this ministry or the standards for which we hold to be True. Neither is the board a platform for those devoted to Catholicism to examine, refute, or “bash” the tenets of Protestantism. This board is solely for the purpose of examining the teaching of Catholicism in light of Scripture.

Proclaiming The Gospel reserves the right to revise and enforce the purpose of this forum. This may include immediately censuring an post, or a participant. The following set of rules represents this ministry’s desire to provide leadership in accordance to the example and teaching of our Lord Jesus Christ.

**…in accordance to the example and teaching of our Lord Jesus Christ…Not the Jesus Christ that I know. **Delustional or what !

 

[Anne_Carmel]

This thread has long since strayed from the original question about getting to heaven. It is now closed. Thank you for everyone’s participation in the discussion.