I am an atheist thread 2

[oneGODoneCHURCH]

I think it is nice poetry that you place here, but it is not really anything factual. Here is a list of gods that you don’t seem to know about yet. If you have anything other than poetry, let me know.

I’m sorry that you found that to be just nice poetry. For it is A statement of fact. I find it interesting that it the only it is the only part of my post that you chose to respond to. As for your list. you could put trees a couch or what ever on that list that does not change the fact that there is but one G D.

Peace in the Lord.

Scott

 

[Armor_of_God]

Not really, she let me find my own way, (other than going to church regularly when we were young and the songs around xmas and such)
We talked about it recently. She believes, but also could offer no reason why. She is quite smart, quite old, and a keen observer. I don’t want to brag, but my Mom is WAY above average. Still in all her experience she cannot say why she believes. Like many here, she was also willing to talk about it at length.
I am quite lucky.

Hey, my Mom is pretty sharp, too!

 

[Armor_of_God]

I would return to the medical professionals.

A, what great faith you have in the medical profession!

 

[Armor_of_God]

Lot’s of words, but what it amounts to is that the only true ‘evidence’ is this personal feeling, witnessed and interpreted by you, called ‘faith’.

You’re kind of right, in that it’s personal, but you keep telling me it’s just a feeling, and I keep telling you that for me, it’s not. The faith is still there even when I’m feeling “dead” inside. I believe faith is a living, growing thing. It’s not a one shot deal; it is a lifetime trek.

As for evidence, much of the evidence of faith is works. Faith has to be lived, or it dies. To an outsider observing me, some evidence may be in my worship. Other evidence may be in the way I treat others or talk about people. Additional evidence might be in the way I live my life or in the things I choose to be involved with in my community. Further evidence might be in the way I speak up about glaring misconceptions about the Faith (Catholicity) during a conversation with friends or co-workers, knowing they’ll look at me like I’m from Mars.

 

[Mr.Bee]

Speaking as someone who loves questions far more than answers, I would encourage you to keep asking them…and ask them in these open forums! This communication format is such a new and exciting phenomena that we don’t know how good it will get, but it has already gotten quite good.

Yes, I guess it’s entertaining. I keep feeling compelled to come back.

What about someone too dumb to understand the subtle answers? Does that guy deserve to burn for eternity?

You see… Stupidity is not really a black & white issue, There are different levels of dumb behavior.

• Those who truly can’t help it because of a mental or physical disability
• Those who choose to be stupid.

How do you know if it’s stupidity or ignorance? Is that person really culpable for their decision or action? Or is it stupidity verging on arrogance?

Let me make a stupid example: Bad drivers. Many drivers on the road today break basic commandmants dictated by the law. Take for instance, “Thou shalt not ‘text message’ while driving”. Sounds reasonable doesn’t it. But does low IQ excuse it if a person kills someone while doing it?

Then there’s the punishment. Poor stupid person, does he deserve life in prison for his (stupid) mistake. Because he didn’t “understand”?

I don’t know.

I want to give my definition of God’s type of punishment. The “fire & brimstone” sceanario is probably just a frightening metaphor for a punishment we can’t comprehend. So for the guy who killed someone because he did something dumb, the punishment might be having to spend eternity living with that guilt, I don’t know, that sounds fair to me. It might be possible we create our own hell.

Then again, it all depends on how you feel about stupid people interpreting the commandments. Is God responsible for them? Or are we responsible?

Definition of Hell and eternal punishment: (before I take some time off from these forums and go back to work)

A guy dies and goes to Heaven. As he’s being shown around by St. Peter he notices the place has all these ducks walking around everywhere. St. Peter tells him; "You can go anywhere and do whatever you want, but whatever you do, don’t step on a duck.

Well, eventually he gets careless and he steps on a duck. Immediatly, a big burly angel handcuffs a woman to him, she’s 450pounds, mean and flatulent. And he’s forced to spend the next 1000 years handcuffed to her. He thinks; “Wow! I must’ve done something terrible to deserve this”

After the 1000 years is over, the angel releases him from the mean, fat smelly woman, and handcuffs him to a beautiful, super model woman. The guy says to the pretty girl; “Wow! this is more like it!! I must’ve done something pretty good to deserve this!”

The pretty woman looks at him and says; “Well, I don’t know what you did, but I just stepped on a %&#@ duck.”

 

[Armor_of_God]

I would return to the medical professionals. Why would the voice invented by my brain be anything * but* very personal.
Who knows better how to trick you than your own mind?

There are many examples where your brain does exactly that, by the way.

Hey, how did you get inside my brain? I thought I closed the door!..Does that mean I’m open-minded?

Maybe your brain spends all day playing tricks on you, but mine behaves itself pretty well.

 

[_A]

That is a cheap diversion, a distraction, and a red herring. I was commenting on a passage of the Bible that you had quoted and questioned. It makes no difference which Bible I am using. I was referring to the Bible that you were using.

You said ‘the bible is not unreasonable’ or ‘the bible is unreasonable’ or something. I need to know which bible you referred to if I am to make sense of this statement.

Unless of course you believe that all the bibles are equally reasonable or unreasonable.

I was doing no such thing. I was merely clarifying for you your erroneous ideas on certain passages of the Bible that you had quoted, and objected to.

You decided that the commandments and their consequences are no longer applicable. What you said was something like ‘they were needed, now I don’t need them’. Wasn’t it something like that?. Is the bible right here, or should we all listen to you instead?

Don’t worry, zerinus, it is far from you alone who I doubt. Anyone who tries to tell me that the god of the whole universe wrote a book, then tells me I have to accept their revisions before understanding it gets a lot of distrust from me.
The book is more of an authority than you are, or else it is just another book.
I already know that it is just another book, but you have taken the position that it is much more than that. I am just trying to hold you to it.

It says what it says. What do you want me to tell you about it? And what relevance does that have to what we are talking about here?

zerinus

Just using the opportunity to show that you don’t want to mention which book, or address certain differences. I don’t blame you. If that was in my bible, I would be reluctant to admit it, too.
Don’t worry, I don’t think of your book as any more ridiculous than the KJV…or the books of scientology, or any of the many ‘holy books’ that various groups have claimed as divine over the world.

 

[_A]

The same one that you were using.

I don’t recall saying anything about “allegory”. I did, however, say that the laws and penalties of ancient societies should be judged by the times and circumstances in which they lived, not by our standards; and there is nothing mysteries about that assertion.
So because you have personally assessed that the world is too tough to stick to those laws, you are going to stop adhering to parts of the bible? Good thing it was only a book of suggestions, huh?
zerinus;3088186:

You don’t judge the laws of Moses issued three thousand years ago by today’s standards. You judge them by the times and circumstances in which they lived.

Oh, well, since it was a long time ago, I will wait for a new book. The old one has obviously expired.
How long are they good for?

 

[_A]

I’m sorry that you found that to be just nice poetry. For it is A statement of fact. I find it interesting that it the only it is the only part of my post that you chose to respond to. As for your list. you could put trees a couch or what ever on that list that does not change the fact that there is but one G D.

Peace in the Lord.

Scott

What evidence do you have that ‘Z us’ or ‘Apol o’ or one of those other gods with a letter missing is not the one true god? What evidence have you got that there is even one god?

 

[_A]

A, what great faith you have in the medical profession!

Faith is not necessary with science. In the place of faith, science has accountability and rigor.

 

[_A]

As for evidence, much of the evidence of faith is works.

This is a common misconception. If you can show how there is something that someone possessing faith can do that someone faithless cannot, I may change my mind.

The fact is, lots of people do good works without being bribed by heaven or threatened by a sky-bully.

Also, as I am sure you know, lots of people do works in the name of faith which are not so good.

 

[_A]

Yes, I guess it’s entertaining. I keep feeling compelled to come back.

I don’t think you understand. I mean that I think that these discussions are a new thing. Anyone can read, anyone can join. Another advantage is that you can’t make race/gender/faith judgements unless someone lets you (i.e. tells you their race/gender/faith).

You see… Stupidity is not really a black & white issue, There are different levels of dumb behavior.

• Those who truly can’t help it because of a mental or physical disability
• Those who choose to be stupid.

How do you know if it’s stupidity or ignorance? Is that person really culpable for their decision or action? Or is it stupidity verging on arrogance?

One thing I know is that the big guy is supposed to make no mistakes. If someone goes to hell, it is because Yahweh wanted one more to torture.
What god wants, god gets. (to quote an old song)

A guy dies and goes to Heaven. As he’s being shown around by St. Peter he notices the place has all these ducks walking around everywhere. St. Peter tells him; "You can go anywhere and do whatever you want, but whatever you do, don’t step on a duck.

Well, eventually he gets careless and he steps on a duck. Immediatly, a big burly angel handcuffs a woman to him, she’s 450pounds, mean and flatulent. And he’s forced to spend the next 1000 years handcuffed to her. He thinks; “Wow! I must’ve done something terrible to deserve this”

After the 1000 years is over, the angel releases him from the mean, fat smelly woman, and handcuffs him to a beautiful, super model woman. The guy says to the pretty girl; “Wow! this is more like it!! I must’ve done something pretty good to deserve this!”

The pretty woman looks at him and says; “Well, I don’t know what you did, but I just stepped on a %&#@ duck.”

Good stuff.

I must admit that due to my quixotic nature, I think I would be stomping ducks every chance I got, then teaching the fat ugly girls how to dance.

 

[_A]

Hey, how did you get inside my brain? I thought I closed the door!..Does that mean I’m open-minded?

Maybe your brain spends all day playing tricks on you, but mine behaves itself pretty well.

I can show you, but to be honest, you seem resistant. It is nothing remarkable, either, but if you really want to know, I will try to put it simply.
Optical illusions.

You may be the rare sort that does not experience optical illusions, but you would be in the rare minority.
http://www.balagana.com/pic/Optica_Illusion/Optical Illusion - The Four Dots.jpg
I thought this one was amusingly appropriate. Give it a try, let me know if it works.

 

[oneGODoneCHURCH]

Faith is not necessary with science. In the place of faith, science has accountability and rigor.

Now you have shown that you are a person of tremendous faith. I can
not prove to you the existence of G D. Just show the evidence.

I do question your statement above though. As with G D he is the same today as he was yesterday and will be tomorrow. the way man choose to worship and acknowledge him may change but G D does not. How ever science changes daily.For what is scientific truth yesterday is considered obsolete today.

you can take about any subject in the world and the stance and knowledge about has changed many times. i am not just talking about over 100’s of years even I’m talking daily.

May question to you now is this. You came to a religious web site with questions about G D, But it seems you have made up your mind already, so why ask?

Peace in the Lord

Scott

 

[phooney]

It is an interesting fault you seem to have with your ‘o’ key…

 

[Battle_of_Tours]

Hello A:
If you’re having difficulty believing in God, and find yourself unnecessarily skeptical, embittered, and antagonistic toward those who are able to believe in God without difficulty, then I suggest you adopt a routine of prayer.

And I mean *real * prayer, i.e., prayer which includes reflection upon your sins. For I’ve noticed that it is often the case with skeptics that their evident inability to be persuaded by reason is, in the final analysis, due the effects of sin, which corrupts the intellect.

So I suggest to you that you get in the habit of praying, at least once a day, for God to forgive you your sins, and that you make a sincere effort to abstain from mortal sins.

I have no doubt that if you follow this routine of prayer and personal confession, and if you keep yourself away from mortal sins, for, say, 2-3 months, most of your doubts will melt away, you will achieve a peace of mind and heart, and you will begin to know God. For, when you let go of sin, cling to God, and persevere in so doing, you begin to notice God’s presence. You begin to want to love others. You begin to desire the wholesome, the good, and the pure.

So you can argue over philosophical and historical minutia as long as you please, but if your will is corrupt on account of sin, you will be rendered incapable of assenting to the truth even if it stares you in the face.

Please think about what I’ve suggested; and God bless you.

P.S. If you don’t know which particular sins are considered mortal, consult a catechism.

 

[phooney]

Which God though?

If he prays to each one in alphabetical order, it will be an infinite amount of time before he gets to Yahweh…

 

[Battle_of_Tours]

phooney:
The ‘God of the Philosophers,’ if you please. That is, the Creator of the universe, who possesses infinite knowledge, power, and goodness.

 

[phooney]

Zeus then? Or Ra?

 

[Battle_of_Tours]

phooney:

Neither of those designates the God to which I refer.

Zeus, you’ll remember, shared power among a plurality of other Greek deities; hence, he was not all-powerful.

The Egyptian god Ra, on the other hand, while he did undergo a certain transformation in the Egyptian religious understanding throughout the 2nd and 11th dynasties, is clearly not equivalent to the ‘God of the Philosophers,’ insofar as he is mutable (shape-shifting), and essentially identified with the sun.