I am an atheist thread 2

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_A said:
Jeremiah 3:12I am merciful, saith the Lord, and I will not keep anger for ever.
Jeremiah 17:4Ye have kindled a fire in mine anger, which shall burn for ever.

There is one to start…there are many.
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Thanks, i’ll check those out in the immediate context of the passages in which they reside.

👍
 
phooney said:
… 5) “You will never be rebuilt, for I the LORD have spoken, declares the Sovereign LORD.”
““The location of the city of Tyre is not in doubt, for it exists to this day on the same spot and is known as Sur.” (Katzenstein, H.J., The History of Tyre, 1973, p9)”
maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&ll=3…&t=h&z=16&om=1

“Excavations have uncovered remains of the Greco-Roman, Crusader, Arab, and Byzantine civilizations, but most of the remains of the Phoenician period lie BENEATH THE PRESENT TOWN.” britannica.com/eb/article-9074016/Tyre
(emphasis is mine)

So basically, this prophecy is a failiure as far as I am concerned. …
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I believe i have a reasonable answer to this objection. If you care to consider it, Phooney, please let me know.
 
To put it this way:

I would like to live like there is a God and die to find out that there is not one, rather than live like there was no God to die and find out there is one!

Look at China. Do you think the church there could have survived without God? No, they all would be dead now.
 
_A said:
Speaking of doing it for science, how about we approach the Randi foundation. If we can actually show that your prayer has a different effect than mine, we could be eligible for a large cash prize.
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I’m in this for love: love for Jesus and love for you. I don’t want those buckets of moolah.
We couldn’t just pray for each other, though…I can’t see how that could give us a measurable result.
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I will certainly know if there is some healing going on in my soul. I may not be able to put it in a test tube or run tests on it, but as surely as I know the sun rises, and more surely than I know the earth is turning, I will know. And I think you will know as well.
The other thing is that I am particular about the type of prayer. I see it as a way of spreading the faith, which I am unwilling to do, so it would have to be private, and there would have to be a way to get a clear result, which both of us could accept as evidence. I don’t know exactly how to arrange it yet.
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Why should it matter at all what prayers you say, if they are just words?
Also, it shouldn’t take anywhere near that many days. If a ‘pater noster’ or a ‘hail mary’ has any utility whatsoever, it should be easy to demonstrate, and would take a lot less time than the 9-day one you suggest.
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Curiouser and curiouser. Why do you demand such different standards for some areas of this proposal, compared to what you accept from regular scientific experiments? Scientific experiments require repetition and time for analysis. Some studies go on for years - wildlife studies, for example.
 
_A said:
If, however, you wish to provide proof that somehow your *pious *prayer would have a different effect than my *insincere *one
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If it is insincere, you are not praying. Rather, you are just saying words.
 
_A said:
I think that public prayer serves to spread the various religions around. I don’t want someone who might see me as a role-model watching me pray and thinking it means something. I would certainly not do it in public, for the same reasons. I would, if everyone watching was advised that it was not my belief and I did not approve of praying to a god, I suppose.
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The thing about prayer is that it can be absolutely private. You can say it locked in your bathroom, or in the dark in your truck in the parking lot before going to work. You can even say it silently, without moving your lips.
 
SacredHeartFan said:
To put it this way:

I would like to live like there is a God and die to find out that there is not one, rather than live like there was no God to die and find out there is one!

Look at China. Do you think the church there could have survived without God? No, they all would be dead now.
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This is not, to me, the safe way to bet.
Many gods have been described (i.e. - Yahweh and Allah). These gods often get really vengeful if you worship the wrong one. To me, if you believe in no gods, but live a decent life, when a judgement comes (if there were such a thing) a person could honestly and fairly say “there was not compelling enough evidence to believe, so I waited.”
To me, this ‘safe bet’ argument works much better for being an atheist than for being any flavour of theist.
 
Armor_of_God said:
I’m in this for love: love for Jesus and love for you. I don’t want those buckets of moolah.
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Don’t worry, I think the Randi money is safe. There is no demonstratable difference between the effects of an insincere prayer, and a sincere one.
Just the way you would expect it to be if there were no god at all.
 
Armor_of_God said:
The thing about prayer is that it can be absolutely private. You can say it locked in your bathroom, or in the dark in your truck in the parking lot before going to work. You can even say it silently, without moving your lips.
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Right, so the public prayer to me always seemed more like bragging than about really talking to a god.
 
_A said:
OK, then why does your prayer show no different effect than my word-saying?

If there is a demonstratable effect, what is it?
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Let’s find out!

We really have nothing to lose, except maybe a few pounds. (Only speaking for myself here…You may be a perfectly fit fellow. Even so, fasting has been shown to have beneficial effects on the health of people, regardless of their fitness levels.)
 
Armor_of_God said:
Let’s find out!

We really have nothing to lose, except maybe a few pounds. (Only speaking for myself here…You may be a perfectly fit fellow. Even so, fasting has been shown to have beneficial effects on the health of people, regardless of their fitness levels.)
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What sort of test do you have in mind? What result will falsify your hypothesis?

Could you please state your hypothesis?

EDIT - added last question.
 
_A said:
You provide sufficient evidence of air in your location every time you successfully post another message.
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Oh, you mean my posts proving that it couldn’t be proven?

Come on now, you took the time to “not” answer the challenge!

Now, take the time to answer the challenge!

Can you prove air?

(I believe this is the 3rd time you’ve responded to me without answering the challenge, am I correct?)

👍
 
_A said:
Why can’t more folks just accept that I don’t believe, and perhaps ask me questions about being an atheist? I have noticed that there are many misconceptions about it (at the ridiculous end, we atheists are satan-worshippers, for instance). I would like to have a chance to let people ask me about things they may not know about atheists, rather than constantly trying to show me that their god is the right one and why.
Don’t worry, I will continue to answer, I just wish I got a few more ‘is it true that atheists all hate god’, or ‘how did you become an atheist’, or ‘do you, as an atheist find it challenging to maintain friendships with theists?’
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I’ve been lurking on these boards for a couple weeks now and following this thread which I find very interesting. I accept that you are an atheist and am curious to know how you came to not believe in a god or gods. I was brought up Catholic and started having doubts and questions about my religion since I was a kid. I can trace it back to a religion exam I took that contained a question something like, “Why do we go to church”? and the responses to choose from were something like: because I believe in god, because church is a routine, etc. Well, I can honestly say when I read the responses I realized that the “routine” response was my reason for attending church. Going to church on Sundays was what my family did and I simply followed suit.

I’m just curious to know if you were brought up without religion or with religion and started questioning things as you matured as I did.
 
_A said:
What sort of test do you have in mind? What result will falsify your hypothesis?

Could you please state your hypothesis?

EDIT - added last question.
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Actually, it is *your *hypothesis we are testing:
_A said:
The thing is, even though I am not a believer, every prayer said would have the same effect. The measurable effects would be identical between us.
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The test I have in mind is the one referred to in post #560 (p.38), the novena to the Sacred Heart of Jesus.

As you have been away from the practice for some while, have not kept yourself well-informed, and apparently have relinquished your “licence to practice”, I am taking the liberty to set the standards and procedures to test the hypothesis.

Please note that I am working under a very astute and wise Master who has dedicated His entire life to His work, and I take no credit for any positive results - it is all the Master.

As for positive results, ANY healing in your soul will be deemed a measurable, positive result.
 
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