I am an atheist thread 2

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If it’s convenient, yeah!
You assume that people claim to doubt God because they want to sleep in on Sunday? That’s not doubt, that’s willful contrariness.
Suspicion can be overcome by knowledge.
If such knowledge is possible. I have yet to see God reasonably proven to exist (the very effort smacks of hubris – God, you will appear!), and revelations seem to be granted to a select few.
Allow me to rephrase. What God wants sometimes WE don’t do.
You’re ignoring the point. If God wants us all to know him, he can do that effortlessly. He doesn’t seem inclined to ensure that.
Christopher Hitchins ( I would call an aggressive atheist) did a hit piece on Mother Teresa. He of course got it all wrong about her.

Look at how people live, even going through a dark night of the soul, to see their faith, and see if they really and truly doubt God.
Been there, done that, yes they do. Now answer my question, if you please. Mother Teresa doubted for most of her life. By the statement in your signature, it follows that she led her life in constant, deliberate insult to God. Do you agree or not?
 
:dts: Not so fast. Scientists say there IS an absolute beginning to the universe. They don’t claim it was always here.
  • NASA says the universe had it’s beginning 13.7 billion years ago + / - 1% accuracy. I gave you that link. They don’t wiggle on that. They are absolutely sure of this number
    So where did everything come from? Neither you nor science can answer what happened prior to the theory of the big bang. I gave you that link also.
Still want to deny God?
Steve, I thought you said you were bowing out of this thread when your misunderstanding of this was shown the first time around. This is just an argument from ignorance if you are saying that science doesn’t know what happened ‘before’ the big bang, therefore goddidit.
 
:dts: Not so fast. Scientists say there IS an absolute beginning to the universe. They don’t claim it was always here.
  • NASA says the universe had it’s beginning 13.7 billion years ago + / - 1% accuracy. I gave you that link. They don’t wiggle on that. They are absolutely sure of this number
    So where did everything come from? Neither you nor science can answer what happened prior to the theory of the big bang. I gave you that link also.
Still want to deny God?
Since NASA suggests also that time itself started then, there is no before then.

A beginning is not proof of a god, even if it is, it is certainly not proof of the god of the bible (who claims to have made the earth around 6000 years ago). Perhaps another, older god is proved here, but I would like to say again - evidence of a beginning is not evidence of Yahweh.
 
Nope, I think it is unreasonable. Also, when I was having my catholic indoctrination as a child, hell existed. Now, the church has changed their minds (possibly because threatening punishment fell out of fashion). Should I believe a church that keeps making new stuff up about their god?
First, let me say that I love your idea that the Catholic church changes their minds based on fashion. cough humanae vitae cough :rolleyes:

Second, you yourself described the church’s position as reasonable (post #729). So what is it? Is the church’s position unreasonable, or have they made it reasonable to attract $$? Or, just maybe, is it inherently reasonable?

Third, just how deep was your Catholic catechesis as a child? It apparently didn’t include the Catechism, or you would know that your “love me or burn” stuff is not Catholic. You also wouldn’t make claims about how the Bible should be sufficient to know and understand God. Could it be that you have not learned as much about the church as you would have us believe?

Fourth, even under very liberal theologies like Schillebeeckx’s, hell is real – it is the state of non-existence. Schillebeeckx hasn’t proposed that the church “change its mind”, he has suggested that the church’s prior understanding of hell is incomplete.

Fifth, don’t get me wrong. Schillebeeckx’s is definitely a minority opinion within the church. The bottom line is we don’t know much about hell. We know it’s undesirable, though.

We know more about God, though. We know that God is defined as love, justice, and mercy. So – if your finite understanding of love, justice, and mercy precludes you from believing in hell as a place of eternal physical torment, the church tells us, “Fine. We don’t know for sure, so you need not believe it.”

I’m too tired to think about the Deuteronomy thing right now. 🙂 Maybe later tonight… we’ll see.

Take care!
 
Since NASA suggests also that time itself started then, there is no before then.

A beginning is not proof of a god, even if it is, it is certainly not proof of the god of the bible (who claims to have made the earth around 6000 years ago). Perhaps another, older god is proved here, but I would like to say again - evidence of a beginning is not evidence of Yahweh.
I feel sorry for you A. What if I told you I know for a fact there is a God? And it isn’t just from reading.
 
I feel sorry for you A. What if I told you I know for a fact there is a God? And it isn’t just from reading.
I would ask you for evidence, which I suspect will come from within you, and be no different than many others’ claims that they know the will of their god.
 
I would ask you for evidence, which I suspect will come from within you, and be no different than many others’ claims that they know the will of their god.
I will tell you sometime, you are not ready yet…
 
You assume that people claim to doubt God because they want to sleep in on Sunday? That’s not doubt, that’s willful contrariness.
I didn’t say that. Is that what YOU think?
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Mirdath:
If such knowledge is possible. I have yet to see God reasonably proven to exist (the very effort smacks of hubris – God, you will appear!), and revelations seem to be granted to a select few.
If no more revelation other than what was given the writers of scripture, it would be sufficient. That’s the official public revelation.
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Mirdath:
You’re ignoring the point. If God wants us all to know him, he can do that effortlessly. He doesn’t seem inclined to ensure that.
You’re suggesting God will over ride our free Will. He won’t do that even though He could. We truly have choices.
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Mirdath:
Mother Teresa doubted for most of her life. By the statement in your signature, it follows that she led her life in constant, deliberate insult to God. Do you agree or not?
  • Did Mother Teresa go to mass? Yes
  • Did she receive the Eucharist? Yes
  • Did she go to the sacrament of reconcilliation? Yes
  • Did she receive the sacrament of the sick, once called extreme unction? Yes
  • Did she complain to God? I’m sure she did…many times
  • Is her life being fully investigated by the Church? Yes
  • Did the Church release her letters? Yes
  • Did she live as though she doubted God? No
    I would say, pay attention to what someone does habitually throughout their life to see what they believe, not what they might say at any given moment.
The Vatican made her letters public. So they weren’t worried about her. I think she shows hope for even the most diligent of workers for God who like her, get overwhelmed by the massive work they undertake. And her work was massive for her entire life. And she percevered and was true to God till the end.
 
Nope, I think it is unreasonable. Also, when I was having my catholic indoctrination as a child, hell existed. Now, the church has changed their minds (possibly because threatening punishment fell out of fashion). Should I believe a church that keeps making new stuff up about their god?
I don’t agree with the death penalty where there are other options.
Does your all-powerful god lack such options? Or does he just dislike children who curse?
A, I have decided to stop this our little back-and-forth. I enjoy arguing with people who are being inquisitive, but you’re not. You’re just being argumentative. You’re willingly misunderstanding, misrepresenting, and misinterpreting what we’re saying, and what’s more, you’re doing it in a vitriolic manner. I’m not trying to convince you that Catholicism is true, I’m merely trying to explain to you where your conception of it is in error, and you’re smacking my hand to the side. This is not constructive, and frankly it’s a waste of both our time.
If such knowledge is possible. I have yet to see God reasonably proven to exist (the very effort smacks of hubris – God, you will appear!), and revelations seem to be granted to a select few.
Nor will you ever see such a proof. God’s existence is unprovable and it would be a demonic disaster if ever it were.
You’re ignoring the point. If God wants us all to know him, he can do that effortlessly. He doesn’t seem inclined to ensure that.
Well, ~90% of the world’s population believes in him (and ~50% is of the opinion that he’s the God of Abraham), so it doesn’t seem particularly necessary for him to somehow prove himself to us (though how would he do that, I wonder? A press release? Perhaps he’d start going door to door? Maybe he’d blow up the sun, shield us from the destruction, and then put in a new one that constantly played “Seinfeld” reruns).

Ignoring the fact that no matter what he did to prove himself to us, it would still be possible to doubt him, the title of the C.S. Lewis book “Till We Have Faces” sums up your answer quite nicely: “How can the gods see us face to face until we have faces?” In other words, the reason God stands in the darkness is not because he thinks it’s fun to hide behind the curtains, but because he’s right in front of us and we simply lack the eyes to see the light.

Then, of course, there’s the matter of free will, how standing in God’s presence makes it difficult for the choice to be as free as it should be, and all that.

Like I said ti A, I’m not trying to convince you of this, though I’d be fine with it if you were, because you can’t think yourself or anyone else into faith. I’m just trying to explain how Catholicism answers your questions. If nothing else, we’re 2,000 years old. You have to anticipate that whatever questions you may have have been asked a million times before, and there’s no way the RCC could become the richest non-profit organization in the world without being able to answer all of them in some sort of adequate capacity.
SAAAAAAAASSSQUATCH!!!
Ok, that’s pretty awesome. I’m gonna have to remember that when I die. 😉
 
Mother Teresa did not doubt for most of her life. If she did she wouldn’t have dedicated her whole life for the sick and deprived. She is a Saint, in heaven with God. Can anyone give up their lives here for hers??
 
I will tell you sometime, you are not ready yet…
If your ‘evidence’ was real, my readiness would not matter.

Are you waiting for me to be more receptive to your illusion, or is there another reason why your evidence just vanished?
 
A, I think you sound angry to me and to not believe in God is just a venting.
 
If your ‘evidence’ was real, my readiness would not matter.

Are you waiting for me to be more receptive to your illusion, or is there another reason why your evidence just vanished?
A, you are very eager to hear my story. In time I will tell you. Be patient.
 
If nothing else, we’re 2,000 years old. You have to anticipate that whatever questions you may have have been asked a million times before, and there’s no way the RCC could become the richest non-profit organization in the world without being able to answer all of them in some sort of adequate capacity.
(I bolded your statement for emphasis)

Why are they so rich if they are ‘non-profit’?

How is it that they can pay hundreds of millions of US dollars for covering up sex crimes if they are ‘non-profit’.
Perhaps I misunderstand the phrase ‘non-profit’.
 
Mother Teresa did not doubt for most of her life. If she did she wouldn’t have dedicated her whole life for the sick and deprived. She is a Saint, in heaven with God. Can anyone give up their lives here for hers??
You haven’t read her letters, have you?

She is not a saint. She has not yet been canonized.
 
Righteousone, I think you sound angry to me and to not believe in reality is just a venting.
 
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