I am an atheist thread 3

[whatevergirl]

Hi A;

Not saying our feelings do not matter in life–but we sometimes have to forge past our ‘feelings’ and do the right thing. I have seen many men and women go down wrong paths, because they didn’t ‘feel’ like being married anymore, or ‘felt’ like they were called to something, that was really detrimental and sinful to their lives. Feelings will often times steer us wrong if we allow them to rule our lives. I have often let my feelings on issues dictate my reactions to things, instead of placing the situation in God’s hands. Whenever I have placed things in God’s hands, things always worked out. Doesn’t mean I ‘felt’ happy about certain things, but by stepping out of my own feelings on particular instances, I could make better decisions.

I think we throw around the word ‘feeling’ too much in our society, to make it sound like we should only do things that ‘feel’ good…but really, sometimes we won’t always ‘feel’ good when doing the right thing. Hope that better clarifies my point.

Truly though, A–the only thing different about you and me, is that you choose to believe there is no God, and I choose to believe there is One. Faith is about believing in things unseen, if we need evidence for everything we believe in–then it would be called ‘fact’ not faith. Do you ever have hope in things, that have not yet materialized? Do you ever ‘hope’ that someone you love doesn’t die, or who is suffering, gets relief? Faith is not much different than hope. To me, without faith in God, I would look at life as rather bleak and hopeless. Just my thoughts.

 

[_A]

Truly though, A–the only thing different about you and me, is that you choose to believe there is no God, and I choose to believe there is One.

Let’s try to make this statement more ‘true’ before we move on. The only thing different about you and me is that of all the stories of gods I choose not to believe any, and you chose one and believe it.
It is not so much that I disbelieve. It’s more like there is not anything convincing enough **to **believe. I can’t make myself believe any of the god stories.

Faith is not much different than hope. To me, without faith in God, I would look at life as rather bleak and hopeless. Just my thoughts.

It looks to me like you would not like it very much if you discovered that there really was no god. I understand. You hope I am wrong. It would feel better.
If it is your understanding that faith is like wishing (hope), then I can understand it that way, but that speaks to exactly what you said earlier about doing what feels good, as opposed to what’s ‘right’.
If you feel hope that there is a god, that has nothing at all to do with the fact that there is or is not a god.
If I said that I knew that the boss of the universe wanted you to stop wearing all colours except purple, would you throw out all of your clothes and head out to the Purple Clothing Shop? Would you ask for some evidence first? How much evidence before you would believe such a thing?
I am being asked to accept a lot more than a clothing colour choice. When being asked to accept your notions of god over what my senses tell me, or over another persons notions of god, I am being asked to accept a peculiar lot of things. Strange, complex things. Much more difficult to adhere to than simple colour choice. How much evidence do you think I would need before I wished for such a thing to be true?
How is it that you came to wish that it were true? (you may indeed have found the evidence since, but at the beginning, presumably, you did not hope it was true, then at some point you did)

I think ‘hope’ (like wishing) describes faith very well, to an outsider such as I am. I should say though, that the word is supposed to mean ‘action based on belief’, not ‘hoping’ or ‘wishing’. Unless I misunderstood what I learned about it.

 

[c659smith]

A

Now I am trying to get a hold of what your definition of athesism is?

I know the Websters dictionary version and the Athesism society definition and you according to your statements do not fit either

ATHEISM
Atheism is a doctrine that states that nothing exists but natural phenomena (matter), that thought is a property or function of matter, and that death irreversibly and totally terminates individual organic units. This definition means that there are no forces, phenomena, or entities which exist outside of or apart from physical nature, or which transcend nature, or are “super” natural, nor can there be. Humankind is on its own.

Now which sentences would you delete or keep in what an atheists is?

Also at of curiousity is how do you think if not the big bang this, our Universe was created?

What facts do you have to back up your belief in atheism.

 

[_A]

A

Now I am trying to get a hold of what your definition of athesism is?

I know the Websters dictionary version and the Athesism society definition and you according to your statements do not fit either

ATHEISM
Atheism is a doctrine that states that nothing exists but natural phenomena (matter), that thought is a property or function of matter, and that death irreversibly and totally terminates individual organic units. This definition means that there are no forces, phenomena, or entities which exist outside of or apart from physical nature, or which transcend nature, or are “super” natural, nor can there be. Humankind is on its own.

Now which sentences would you delete or keep in what an atheists is?

Also at of curiousity is how do you think if not the big bang this, our Universe was created?

What facts do you have to back up your belief in atheism.

When you place an ‘a’ in front of a word, it negates the word. A theist believes in a god. Adding the ‘a’ to make it 'atheist just means does not believe in a god.
I would not add any more to either term than that.

 

[_A]

I also should say that, while I have a small understanding about the big bang theory, I don’t ‘believe in’ it.
I also don’t ‘believe in’ atheism. That would be ridiculous, since it describes a lack of belief.

Is not flying kites a hobby?

 

[_A]

ATHEISM
Atheism is a doctrine

Atheism is not a doctrine.
If you simply go look at the definition of doctrine, I am fairly sure you can ask me a few questions and find that the description does not fit me, and how I came to lack belief.

 

[notself]

Atheism is not a doctrine.
If you simply go look at the definition of doctrine, I am fairly sure you can ask me a few questions and find that the description does not fit me, and how I came to lack belief.

Here is a good definition.

Atheism entails the absence of belief in the existence of God or other deities. Absence of belief:*"Atheists are people who do not believe in a god or gods (or other immaterial beings), or who believe that these concepts are not meaningful. …

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atheist

 

[c659smith]

A

But I disagree it is not a doctrine as it is in the manner of you not having beliefs in God.

It is much harder for an Atheists to maintain those beliefs in no God than one who does believe in God.

For one I stated that I can give more facts and substancial at that on God’s existence than you can that God does not.

Your belief there is no God is based upon if not science as I have asked then what—“feelings”—

Are you finally admitting here that, according to your logic, your god must have a cause, and that cause must have a cause, and that cause must have a cause…

Unless that cause has always existed./COLOR

 

[whatevergirl]

Let’s try to make this statement more ‘true’ before we move on. The only thing different about you and me is that of all the stories of gods I choose not to believe any, and you chose one and believe it.
It is not so much that I disbelieve. It’s more like there is not anything convincing enough **to **believe. I can’t make myself believe any of the god stories.
It looks to me like you would not like it very much if you discovered that there really was no god. I understand. You hope I am wrong. It would feel better.
If it is your understanding that faith is like wishing (hope), then I can understand it that way, but that speaks to exactly what you said earlier about doing what feels good, as opposed to what’s ‘right’.
If you feel hope that there is a god, that has nothing at all to do with the fact that there is or is not a god.
If I said that I knew that the boss of the universe wanted you to stop wearing all colours except purple, would you throw out all of your clothes and head out to the Purple Clothing Shop? Would you ask for some evidence first? How much evidence before you would believe such a thing?
I am being asked to accept a lot more than a clothing colour choice. When being asked to accept your notions of god over what my senses tell me, or over another persons notions of god, I am being asked to accept a peculiar lot of things. Strange, complex things. Much more difficult to adhere to than simple colour choice. How much evidence do you think I would need before I wished for such a thing to be true?
How is it that you came to wish that it were true? (you may indeed have found the evidence since, but at the beginning, presumably, you did not hope it was true, then at some point you did)

I think ‘hope’ (like wishing) describes faith very well, to an outsider such as I am. I should say though, that the word is supposed to mean ‘action based on belief’, not ‘hoping’ or ‘wishing’. Unless I misunderstood what I learned about it.

I am not asking you to do anything, except consider the possibility of God. You don’t know me, A–your replies seem to denote that you believe all Christians think alike–we are not mindless drones. Sometimes, at least I see this in your replies to me, that you are a bit condescending in your tone–as though I believe in God, because I can’t imagine not believing in Him. Simply put, we do not know each other. I can pray for you to some day believe in what I believe, but no one can ask you or force you to believe. We hope that for everyone–because I know that I have experienced Godly signs (Divine intervention?) in my life, which serves me as evidence of God. I also must believe that He is a mystery, in which I will never fully figure out.

 

[oneGODoneCHURCH]

I have to admit I’m getting a little heated, but yes:

The essential difference between pro-lifers and pro-choicers is not “who’s evil and who’s saintly in the debate”. The “issue” is over what constitutes personhood, and sadly, if you take out the Catholic-God-clause, there is no real reason why a blob of cells with no awareness of its existence whatsoever is any different than the blob of cells in a tumor.

Furthermore, although there is one thing which makes an embryo/early fetus better than a tumor – its potential to be a human person – this point defeats itself when you realize that so do the millions of sperm right now swimming around in (you know). Also, should that “potential human person” become a great unnecessary weight on the mother’s life, *then it’s in the mother’s best interests to abort the “potential human person” and wait until a more suitable time to have a child. * As for the blob of cells: what does *it *care?

So yes, malignant *OR *benign.

You can not be serious? I am at a total loss as I have never read a more cold statement in my life.

 

[c659smith]

Notself,
but you did not finish the definition.

Here is a good definition.

 

[c659smith]

Lawrence of Pa

What if I say that you are nothing but a mass of cells as you are now. Nothing more greater than a malignant tumor… What would make my statement wrong following your logic.

For when you are asleep or uncconcious a state of being.

In a coma

no longer useful to society.

Atheimers

and the list goes on you are going down a very slippery slope .

You can not be serious? I am at a total loss as I have never read a more cold statement in my life.

 

[c659smith]

Notself–
But there is a belief and that is the belief that there is no God. It is also a blind belief as Atheists would have Theists believe.

The point here is that it takes more of a blind faith to believe in Atheism than to believe in God.

An Atheist has to work everyday to believe in his faith and question on a regular basis the vality of his belief.

Here is a good definition.

 

[c659smith]

A

I am really wondering what makes an Atheist tick. So as I learn from you and you learn from me maybe.

To answer you question here is the webster definition of doctrine:

Main Entry: doc·trine
Pronunciation: \ˈdäk-trən\
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English, from Anglo-French & Latin; Anglo-French, from Latin doctrina, from doctor
Date: 14th century
1archaic : teaching instruction
2 a: something that is taught b: a principle or position or the body of principles in a branch of knowledge or system of belief : dogma c: a principle of law established through past decisions d: a statement of fundamental government policy especially in international relations e: a military principle or set of strategies

Now has does doctrine not fit even with Atheists or yourself.

Unless you made your decision to be an Atheist not on a system of knowledge, past decisions, or a system of belief that there is no God.

 

[Armor_of_God]

That’s right, there is NO evidence that there ever was a god.If he does exist, he has no effect on the world, except in the minds of those who imagine that they ‘know’ him.

Correction: You have not found the evidence you are asking for. That proves nothing.

So again you are saying that I have to forget what is really going on in the world around me, and just ‘faith’. That will get me the evidence. Could you explain how one ‘faiths’?
By the way, if you mean ‘just believe’, I do not, and I can’t fake it.

No, I am not suggesting that you forget anything, and I am not suggesting that you believe anything. I am suggesting that people who believe look at things differently - the very same things that you are looking at. I am sure glad of the differences between people - it makes life very interesting!

And no, I’m not saying “just believe”. I know you don’t! And I think I acknowledged that about 100 posts ago. I understand fully that a person can’t fake belief.

Suggesting that your primitive, violent god is something that I worship is offensive.

I suggested nothing of the sort. I merely stated the Christian belief that there is only One True God, and that Christians believe that He is the God of all.

I have good news for you: I agree with you that god doesn’t exist - the one you perceive to be the Christian God. I don’t know that dude you are talking about.

Would it be offensive to you if I suggested that, since Zeus is the god of the gods, and I know this from ancient writings, your god is Zeus, not Jesus?

Not really. You would simply be stating a belief.

Don’t choose a god for me, I have no reason to think that you have chosen wisely (yet).

Again, I am not choosing a god for you or suggesting that you worship. You have no idea how much I struggle even with family members to share the faith. It is an extremely personal thing.

I don’t know how else to put this, but you are wrong. The jews do NOT worship Jesus. You DO.
Their book is older, thus more ‘historic’. Why don’t you join them? If catholicism is so clearly right, why don’t they join you?

Same God. They just haven’t met His Son yet.

Just above here, when you not only suggested that I do have a god, but that he was the god of the bible.

That’s not a label. It’s a statement of belief.

I think the notion that every human is born with something wrong that they have to pay back by worshiping an uncertain god is horrible.

I’m still puzzled as to why you even care about right and wrong, and how you define these terms.

I will try. I think that if you follow church doctrine, because you believe that a man in the sky is watching you, then you are not disciplining yourself. The threat of eternal punishment / reward is.
If you drop dogma and think through everything yourself, with only yourself to answer to, then that is selfdiscipline. I can’t imagine how it exists in anyone who truly believes.

I follow Church doctrine because I think it is full of wisdom and beauty and truth, and that it is inspired by the Holy Spirit. I do think through everything myself, and I do have self-discipline. Love for God and neighbor drives it.

 

[Armor_of_God]

that is weird–that above post made it look like I said that…sigh…I don’t know why that happens at times?

WG, I think it’s the Internet gremlins…

 

[_A]

Unless that cause has always existed.

It is not a doctrine. Also, you yourself said that since we are here, there must have been a cause. I am simply saying that your ‘cause’ must have a cause according to your rules.

 

[_A]

Notself,
but you did not finish the definition.

Here is a complete definition of atheism.

notself:

Atheism entails the absence of belief in the existence of God or other deities.

 

[_A]

Notself–
But there is a belief and that is the belief that there is no God. It is also a blind belief as Atheists would have Theists believe.

The point here is that it takes more of a blind faith to believe in Atheism than to believe in God.

An Atheist has to work everyday to believe in his faith and question on a regular basis the vality of his belief.

I keep telling you, though. I don’t believe. I have no ‘faith in god’.

Of all the thousands of gods available, I have not accepted any of them. You have accepted one. Have you got any reasons other than ‘it feels good’?

 

[_A]

A

I am really wondering what makes an Atheist tick. So as I learn from you and you learn from me maybe.

To answer you question here is the webster definition of doctrine:

Main Entry: doc·trine
Pronunciation: \ˈdäk-trən\
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English, from Anglo-French & Latin; Anglo-French, from Latin doctrina, from doctor
Date: 14th century
1archaic : teaching instruction
2 a: something that is taught b: a principle or position or the body of principles in a branch of knowledge or system of belief : dogma c: a principle of law established through past decisions d: a statement of fundamental government policy especially in international relations e: a military principle or set of strategies

Now has does doctrine not fit even with Atheists or yourself.

Unless you made your decision to be an Atheist not on a system of knowledge, past decisions, or a system of belief that there is no God.

No ‘system of belief’ or anything. I simply have not been fooled into accepting mormonism, or islam, or any of the religions.

It would take a belief system to make you accept a god, but not for me. All I need is to not believe things.