I am an atheist thread 3

[c659smith]

You are right about infants being atheists. I also consider it a high compliment indeed to be likened to an infant.

That is how you meant that comment, isn’t it?

And stop crying here. Everyone will see.

I am intellegent enough after just a few days to get your number deny everything and explain nothing.

 

[_A]

So then tell me the big bang was one force (blast)

This blast spread matter with the same amount of force in a 360 degree direction. (force)

This force would drive this matter how far?

Speed in space no matter what size would relatively be within a restricted amount of miles because of the force…

A comet it"s trail / an asteroid remains within it’s belt unless something strike them and again a meteor shower large and small all within days such as occurrs over the earth each year
Meteor showers.

What the big bang theory is trying to tell me is that a single force
blasted matter billion of light years from eachother even though the force was equal upon all that matter.

No I think I understand science unless you want to re-educate me with some new (maybe) theories

Did your science education include a technical or scientific writing course? I have found your posts tough to understand, since they touch on subtle and complex subjects, and the writing seems less than careful sometimes.

 

[_A]

A, at the core of Christianity is the belief that, ultimately, good will come to those who put their trust in God and try to do His will.

Unfortunately, this good is usually saved for after your death, and kept completely secret from the rest of the world.
How convenient.

 

[NaturalEnquirer]

Did your science education include a technical or scientific writing course? I have found your posts tough to understand, since they touch on subtle and complex subjects, and the writing seems less than careful sometimes.

What science education?

 

[Armor_of_God]

I thought I was leaving, but I just can’t seem to stay away.

I already answered your question about other faiths.

I did not take my parents’ religion, and it has caused us a lot of tension.

How did I come to Catholicism? Ay… how can I offer a reasonable length explanation?

Well, I was an atheist for about 12 years, mainly on the grounds that there was not enough evidence for religion. During those years, I studied different religions. I took a college course in world religions. I know one course doesn’t make me an expert, but it gave me some grounding. I talked to lots of believers in lots of different religions, and I had concluded that Christianity was the coherent one. But, I couldn’t get over the “lack of evidence” problem.

I was mostly studying science at that time. I was pursuing a degree in science education, so I took a wide variety of courses - physics, chemistry, biology, meteorology.

Anyway, one day I got a miracle. I’m not going to go into the details of it, but suffice it to say that there is no reasonable natural explanation. It would be analagous to a “thermodynamic miracle”, where a closed system’s entropy spontaneously reduces. The 2nd law of thermodynamics says that this is so improbable that it can be considered virtually impossible.

So I pondered the miracle for a long time, and I consulted experts in the field, and confirmed that science can’t explain it. I was left in a position kind of like what you described earlier. An inexplicable phenomenon, but I still didn’t make the jump to faith.

A couple years later, the memory of that “phenomenon” saved the lives of my wife and daughter. That’s a long, personal story that I don’t think I’m going to go into. Faith flipped on like a switch.

You may say that I simply convinced myself to believe, or that I was the victim of a hallucination. Fine. The point is, though, that I now had as much evidence for God as I had for other things that I had always accepted, such as the underlying precepts of science, or the evidence of my senses. So I could not in good conscience claim insufficient evidence.

So now I had to figure out where to go. As I said above, I had already established Christianity as the only plausible existing world religion. I will willingly concede that I had an a priori bias in favor of surviving religions, so I didn’t consider Zeusism very seriously.

Now, at the time, I was adamantly opposed to Catholicism. Adamantly. I thought it was absolutely ludicrous. I used to make very clever little jokes about how all religions are silly, but only Catholicism can be objectively disproved (based on an incorrect understanding of doctrines like transubstantiation and papal infallability). So I had no bias in favor of Catholicism, but as I began to study Christianity seriously, and came to understand the true teachings of the church, nothing else made sense.

Since then, I’ve had another miracle and an answered prayer that defy reasonable natural explanations, so I’m confident I’m on the right track.

So much for keeping this to a reasonable length. Let me just re-iterate that I was not AT ALL interested in becoming religious in general, or Catholic in particular. I have been dragged here, quite unwillingly, every step of the way, by my miserable willingness to be convinced by the evidence.

God bless.

Hi Natural Enquirer,

Thank you for posting your story. I had noticed a while back on your profile that you were a Candidate, and I was curious about your conversion story. Welcome home, and bless you on your journey! Will you be confirmed this Easter?

Someday, if you are willing, I would like to hear about the miracles you experienced (Not on this thread, though - A doesn’t like that mushy stuff. )

 

[_A]

I am intellegent enough after just a few days to get your number deny everything and explain nothing.

How can I explain. You have some deep misunderstandings about science, and won’t likely let me help you fix them.
Perhaps we could discuss my atheism against a subject that you are more familiar with. Also, are you a native English speaker?

 

[c659smith]

Did your science education include a technical or scientific writing course? I have found your posts tough to understand, since they touch on subtle and complex subjects, and the writing seems less than careful sometimes.

many questions have been answered for you here,

It is your turn to answer some. This is a forum that requires a two way conversation.

Now stop the stalling and answer some.

What is evidence?

How do you achieve fact?

For you do not accept evidence and how evidence brings about fact.

Do you believe any history that you do not witness yourself.

 

[Armor_of_God]

Unfortunately, this good is usually saved for after your death, and kept completely secret from the rest of the world.
How convenient.

I will have to respectfully disagree with you on that. I see it around me all the time, with people who have had trying or even devastating events in their lives and have turned the situation over to God.

 

[FaithofAbraham]

bolded by me for emphasis

Look at the phrasing there. It looks a lot like whoever wrote this is convinced that there are gods. More than one. I wonder which ones they meant.

Whoever denies God in order to make a god of themselves, as atheists do.

Also clear here is that Adam did not know what evil or good was, so he would not have known that disobeying his god was evil.

He doubted God’s Word, as atheists do. They don’t know for sure, they just act like they do.

Genesis 2:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

Then this Yahweh (what a funny one this is) puts a big tasty fruit right in front of him, and goes away, letting Satan into the garden, long enough for Adam to ‘fall’.

Why do I get the feeling that Yahweh and Satan are in on this together? Maybe because they ARE?

Nice passage, though.

Sure, God created everything, Satan is only here to reveal hidden sins, like doubt of God. Then you can run with that or back to God.

 

[c659smith]

How can I explain. You have some deep misunderstandings about science, and won’t likely let me help you fix them.
Perhaps we could discuss my atheism against a subject that you are more familiar with. Also, are you a native English speaker?

Again no questions answered by you just deny everything and explain nothing.

Is that enough English for you or is your infantile as you say mind uncapable of answering.

below your quote not mine!
You are right about infants being atheists. I also consider it a high compliment indeed to be likened to an infant

What is your definition of evidence and how does evidence lead to fact?

 

[NaturalEnquirer]

Hi Natural Enquirer,

Thank you for posting your story. I had noticed a while back on your profile that you were a Candidate, and I was curious about your conversion story. Welcome home, and bless you on your journey! Will you be confirmed this Easter?

Yes!

Thanks for the well wishes.

Someday, if you are willing, I would like to hear about the miracles you experienced (Not on this thread, though - A doesn’t like that mushy stuff. )

Sure. Drop me a private message sometime, and I’ll give you the rundown (schedule permitting).

Laptop battery is about to crash, so that’s about all for tonight.

God bless!

 

[c659smith]

Whoever denies God in order to make a god of themselves, as atheists do.

He doubted God’s Word, as atheists do. They don’t know for sure, they just act like they do.

Genesis 2:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

Sure, God created everything, Satan is only here to reveal hidden sins, like doubt of God. Then you can run with that or back to God.

What is happening here is that comments are being made by “A”
on subject matter he knows nothing about.

“A” denies everything and explains nothing. His life has no meaning. Very Sad

 

[NaturalEnquirer]

What science education?

Sorry about that crack. Not cool.

Peace.

 

[FaithofAbraham]

What is happening here is that comments are being made by “A”
on subject matter he knows nothing about.

“A” denies everything and explains nothing. His life has no meaning. Very Sad

He is here making us think, that means something. You have to kind of rise above gathering gangs to beat the hell out of someone, and rather show them the logic they desire. Else you just have some rotten fruit that means nothing.

 

[c659smith]

He is here making us think, that means something. You have to kind of rise above gathering gangs to beat the hell out of someone, and rather show them the logic they desire. Else you just have some rotten fruit that means nothing.

I would agree but I can talk myself to death too.

If he denies everything and explains nothing then you are talking to youself.

“A” What is your definition of evidence and how does evidence lead to fact?

 

[_A]

many questions have been answered for you here,

It is your turn to answer some. This is a forum that requires a two way conversation.

Now stop the stalling and answer some.

What is evidence?

Evidence in its broadest sense includes anything that is used to determine or demonstrate the truth of an assertion(Source - Wiki)

How do you achieve fact?

Again, Wiki -Generally, a fact is defined as something that is the case, something that actually exists, or something that can be verified according to an established standard of evaluation.

Notice ‘standard of evaluation’.

For you do not accept evidence and how evidence brings about fact.

Evidence does not bring about fact. This statement is not even ‘right’ enough to deserve to be called wrong.

Do you believe any history that you do not witness yourself.

I don’t believe. I know you find it difficult to understand, but I will try again.
An historic event, such as my Mother being born, for example. I accept that it must have happened, though I have no direct evidence. I have much to suggest that she was definitely born, the location has been named, too.
I have no reason not to accept that information, and use it in a regular, day to day way.
If it became a matter of life and death establishing where she was born, I would make much greater efforts to learn as certainly as I thought I could.
I once read that extraordinary claims call for extraordinary evidence. That puts it fairly clearly.

 

[_A]

I will have to respectfully disagree with you on that. I see it around me all the time, with people who have had trying or even devastating events in their lives and have turned the situation over to God.

Does this mean that your god does something real for them, or just that they work hard to solve their problems themselves, and give all the credit to their imaginary god.

 

[FaithofAbraham]

Evidence in its broadest sense includes anything that is used to determine or demonstrate the truth of an assertion(Source - Wiki)
Again, Wiki -Generally, a fact is defined as something that is the case, something that actually exists, or something that can be verified according to an established standard of evaluation.

Notice ‘standard of evaluation’.
Evidence does not bring about fact. This statement is not even ‘right’ enough to deserve to be called wrong.
I don’t believe. I know you find it difficult to understand, but I will try again.
An historic event, such as my Mother being born, for example. I accept that it must have happened, though I have no direct evidence. I have much to suggest that she was definitely born, the location has been named, too.
I have no reason not to accept that information, and use it in a regular, day to day way.
If it became a matter of life and death establishing where she was born, I would make much greater efforts to learn as certainly as I thought I could.
I once read that extraordinary claims call for extraordinary evidence. That puts it fairly clearly.

Let me ask you about Jews. Jews are only Jews because there is a command from God that they can either start believing in the God of Israel, or be born from a Jewish mother which is based on a command of God about a rebellious boy born from a Jewish mother and Egyptian father.

So do you think Jews are a bogus people because their identity is based on a non-existent God? That Jews are just living a lie?

 

[_A]

Whoever denies God in order to make a god of themselves, as atheists do.

I don’t make myself a god.

He doubted God’s Word, as atheists do. They don’t know for sure, they just act like they do.

So Adams doubt was upsetting enough to Yahweh that he punished him and all of his descendants. Over 6 billion of us on the planet now (according to the best reports). One tiny infraction by a being that Yahweh apparently made imperfect. You worship that being?

 

[FaithofAbraham]

I don’t make myself a god.

So then you make your government that rules over you a god, the ultimate law of the land. No better, still a bunch of humans.

So Adams doubt was upsetting enough to Yahweh that he punished him and all of his descendants. Over 6 billion of us on the planet now (according to the best reports). One tiny infraction by a being that Yahweh apparently made imperfect. You worship that being?

Sure I worship God, now we have the ability to participate in the creative process of perfecting ourselves by choosing good and avoiding evil, and doing all that with faith that it isn’t all for nothing.

Are you crying that you aren’t made a perfect robot or what? I thought atheists liked freewill and freethinking.