I am an atheist thread 3

[c659smith]

My bad… Vietnam is 10% catholic. Why aren’t they all catholics. The evidence is sooo overwhelming.

vietnam.com/#religion

Yes in Viet nam there is a resurgence but only because Vietnam want in on a world trsde agreement and cannot have that with their record on Human rights,

Protests are prohibited in Vietnam and most gatherings involving large numbers of people are broken up by police. Including Religious gatherings

A police official said city officers were not involved in the clash. He declined to give his name because he was not authorized to speak to the media. He said police were not inside church property. Uniformed officers were seen blocking traffic and watching the demonstration from the street.

“They seized my camera and I was beaten by five or six security guards,” said Le Quoc Quan, a lawyer and pro-democracy dissident who was detained for three months last year after returning from a fellowship at the National Endowment for Democracy in Washington, D.C.

The U.S. State Department pressured Hanoi for Quan’s release, which came just before Vietnamese President Nguyen Minh Triet made a trip to Washington. Foreign diplomats, including representatives from the U.S. Embassy, were present at Friday’s vigil.

There are about 6 million Catholics, the second-largest faith after Buddhism, in the country of 86 million people.

© 2008 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed. Learn more about our Privacy

 

[lkddav]

I ask and I ask what is evidence to you?

I have over and over again given you the rules of evidence.

Hi 659

Evidence you ask? Your god recreating the first 6 days of creation on the moon. Don’t brush this off. If you have a god this is just mere child’s play for him or her. It is a god, correct. It can do this with a snap of a finger.

In the four gospels, jesus said nine times if you are a believer your prays would be answered. You are a believer. Pray that this happens. If it doesn’t your jesus was lying. He plainly said if you believe your prayer WOULD be answered.

This would be sufficient evidence for the world and myself.

 

[c659smith]

Yes in Viet nam there is a resurgence but only because Vietnam want in on a world trsde agreement and cannot have that with their record on Human rights,

Protests are prohibited in Vietnam and most gatherings involving large numbers of people are broken up by police. Including Religious gatherings

A police official said city officers were not involved in the clash. He declined to give his name because he was not authorized to speak to the media. He said police were not inside church property. Uniformed officers were seen blocking traffic and watching the demonstration from the street.

“They seized my camera and I was beaten by five or six security guards,” said Le Quoc Quan, a lawyer and pro-democracy dissident who was detained for three months last year after returning from a fellowship at the National Endowment for Democracy in Washington, D.C.

The U.S. State Department pressured Hanoi for Quan’s release, which came just before Vietnamese President Nguyen Minh Triet made a trip to Washington. Foreign diplomats, including representatives from the U.S. Embassy, were present at Friday’s vigil.

There are about 6 million Catholics, the second-largest faith after Buddhism, in the country of 86 million people.

© 2008 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed. Learn more about our Privacy

Hanoi, Oct. 31, 2007 (CWNews.com) - A Vietnamese Catholic priest, imprisoned for “spreading propaganda against the socialist state,” is being denied access to the Bible, pens and papers, and wine for celebrating Mass behind bars.

The BosNewsLife service, which provides news of Christian prisoners of conscience, reports that Father Nguyen Van Ly remains in solitary confinement in a prison camp in northern Vietnam. The jailed priest has warned his sister that she should not put his clerical title on packages sent to him, because prison authorities refuse to recognize his priestly status. The reason, he explained, is that the government insists that it “does not imprison the Church’s people.”

Father Ly was sentenced to an 8-year prison term in March 2007, after a court found him guilty of criticizing the Vietnamese government and sending his criticisms to pro-democracy workers abroad.

Father Ly, who has now spent 14 years in prison, gained international prominence in 2001 with a letter to a US congressional committee in which he detailed human-rights abuses in Vietnam and argued against American approval of a bilateral trade pact.

Pray for the Catholic of Vietnam.

Do you want more. Let freedom ring and then see how many Budhists are left.

 

[CalmDownWisWins]

…blah atheistic trash blah…

Sorry to horn in, but I’m rather impatient, and since atheists are SO well known for their irreverent sense of humor, I didn’t think you’d mind an interjection of the razor-like wit that is my bad self:

Quote:
Originally Posted by A
Wow, we have really covered a lot of subjects on the last 2 threads. I would like to start again and say that you have all been very generous with your time. Thanks and keep it up!

So, is this the “I’m an atheist heathen and I like to argue with so-called believers” thread?

How “tolerant” are you folks (the atheists here) at being called self-contradicting hyper-religious “anti-not-your-religion”-ists?

Also known as fascist would-be slavemasters of mankind?

Just curious.

 

[Pax]

IMHO, it would certainly be great if everyone in the world was Catholic. Moreover, it would be great if every Catholic was a true and holy Catholic. Unfortunately, even those that accept the faith don’t always live by what they profess.

In a perfect world the truth and beauty of the faith would be embraced and lived by everyone. Unfortunately that simply is not the case. Even an atheist can see that, in some fashion or another, we live in a broken world. People live and they die. In between seemingly good things happen, and some bad things happen. The bad things along with death would represent the broken part.

Not all those that are Catholic stay Catholic. Jesus, himself, said that many would fall away. It isn’t at all surprising that people fall away. The truth and facts do not always convince people. Sometimes even though they are convinced, they will not accept and embrace what they believe to be true.

Frequently people even deceive themselves in simple matters.

Pick a behavior that you, as an atheist, find to be reprehensible. Then look at those engaged in this reprehensible behavior. In every case these people find some justification for what they are doing. They delude themselves and rationalize the facts and circumstances to justify that which they wish to do.

The fact that the whole world, or even a fair percentage of the whole world, is not Catholic is not an indictment of Catholicism. In the first of these three threads, the atheist posters loudly(?) dismissed the point that the vast majority of people in the world have a religious belief. This to the atheist is not a fair indictment or proof that their position is wrong. If that’s the case for atheists, then it seems odd that the atheists on this thread would make a similar indictment against the truth of Catholicism.

The fact that some people reject Catholicism may say a lot more about them then it does about the validity of the faith.

 

[c659smith]

Hi 659

Evidence you ask? Your god recreating the first 6 days of creation on the moon. Don’t brush this off. If you have a god this is just mere child’s play for him or her. It is a god, correct. It can do this with a snap of a finger.

In the four gospels, jesus said nine times if you are a believer your prays would be answered. You are a believer. Pray that this happens. If it doesn’t your jesus was lying. He plainly said if you believe your prayer WOULD be answered.

This would be sufficient evidence for the world and myself.

If God were to do this you would say it was a natural phenomeon
But as scripture does say

The Temptations in the Desert

Jesus was led into the desert by the Spirit to be tempted by the devil. He fasted forty days and forty nights, and afterward was hungry. The tempter approached and said to him: "If you are the Son of God, command these stones to turn into bread."
Jesus replied, "Scripture has it, 'Not on bread alone is man to live, but on every utterance that comes from the mouth of God.'"
Next the devil took him to the holy city, set him upon the parapet of the temple, and said, "If you are the Son of God, throw yourself down. Scripture has it, 'He will bid his angels take care of you; with their hands they will support you that you may never stumble on a stone.'"
Jesus replied, "Scripture also has it, 'You shall not put the Lord your God to the test.'"
The devil then took him to a lofty mountain peak and displayed before him all the kingdoms of the world in their magnificence, promising, "All these will I bestow on you if you prostrate yourself in homage before me."
At this, Jesus said to him, "Away with you, Satan! Scripture says: 'You shall do homage to the Lord your God; him alone shall you adore.'"
At that the devil left him, and angels came and waited on him.

[Matt. 4:1-11]

Now who is the devil in the desert --huh?

Answer the question please below

I ask and I ask what is evidence to you?

I have over and over again given you the rules of evidence.

The rule of evidence that are used today in a court of law and the people who wrote them being at one time atheist themselves till they applied the rule of law aganist the bible.

Your answer to the brilliant professors and experts in law is that they are dellusional.

Give me your rules of evidence at least I will know if you have any idea on what evidence is, how evidence becomes credible. and then fact.

You are not frustrating me in the least, I am not going away, and will have you and the others prove one way or the other weither it is on sound principles of science and laws of evidence that you have come to the decision of Atheism or if you are dellusional.

Again it is not up to me to prove already accepted evidence it is up to you to prove it wrong.

God Bless

 

[lkddav]

Yes in Viet nam there is a resurgence but only because Vietnam want in on a world trsde agreement and cannot have that with their record on Human rights,

Protests are prohibited in Vietnam and most gatherings involving large numbers of people are broken up by police. Including Religious gatherings

A police official said city officers were not involved in the clash. He declined to give his name because he was not authorized to speak to the media. He said police were not inside church property. Uniformed officers were seen blocking traffic and watching the demonstration from the street.

“They seized my camera and I was beaten by five or six security guards,” said Le Quoc Quan, a lawyer and pro-democracy dissident who was detained for three months last year after returning from a fellowship at the National Endowment for Democracy in Washington, D.C.

The U.S. State Department pressured Hanoi for Quan’s release, which came just before Vietnamese President Nguyen Minh Triet made a trip to Washington. Foreign diplomats, including representatives from the U.S. Embassy, were present at Friday’s vigil.

There are about 6 million Catholics, the second-largest faith after Buddhism, in the country of 86 million people.

© 2008 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed. Learn more about our Privacy

Hi 659

In post #700 you said catholism was illegal in vietnam.

“2nd is Vietnam and Cambodia where for the most part Catholism is still illegal.”

Now you are saying their are 6 million catholics in vietnam.

Do you have any clue about what you are talking about. It seems to me you are talking out your a-- and hoping no one pays attention.

If it’s illegal to be catholic in vietnam, by your sources, those 6 million people said they were catholic. By doing this they are subject to be arrested. So why would they say this???

 

[c659smith]

Hi 659

In post #700 you said catholism was illegal in vietnam.

“2nd is Vietnam and Cambodia where for the most part Catholism is still illegal.”

Now you are saying their are 6 million catholics in vietnam.

Do you have any clue about what you are talking about. It seems to me you are talking out your a-- and hoping no one pays attention.

If it’s illegal to be catholic in vietnam, by your sources, those 6 million people said they were catholic. By doing this they are subject to be arrested. So why would they say this???

This is what I posted. I think you have a problem reading maybe huh !!

Posted by c659smith
of religion.

2nd is Vietnam and Cambodia where for the most part Catholism is still illegal. Beginning to change a tiny tiny little because of vietnam wanting to become part of the world trade organization but only for a show. Visa very diffulcult to get for Christian Religious clergy never the less never able to build churches or say Mass…

Look at my post above and then now read it.

I stated illegal for the most part and if any idiot looks at my previous threads the news reports backs my statements.

I think I am getting to you.

 

[psyche23]

Three people out of billions became delusional. What about the other billions, myself included, why isn’t their enough evidence for us?

I really hope you’re not calling us delusional…

 

[lkddav]

This is what I posted. I think you have a problem reading maybe huh !!

Posted by c659smith
of religion.

2nd is Vietnam and Cambodia where for the most part Catholism is still illegal. Beginning to change a tiny tiny little because of vietnam wanting to become part of the world trade organization but only for a show. Visa very diffulcult to get for Christian Religious clergy never the less never able to build churches or say Mass…

Look at my post above and then now read it.

I stated illegal for the most part and if any idiot looks at my previous threads the news reports backs my statements.

I think I am getting to you.

No, i read it correctly. Why would 6 million people admit to being catholic if it was going to bring prosecution on them?

 

[psyche23]

Hi
Your link didn’t work. I did find this though. The are christian in china.

RELIGIONS: China is a multi-religious country. Buddhism, Taoism, Islam, Catholicism and Protestantism, with the first three being more wide spread.Various religions exert different influence on different ethnic groups. Islam is followed by the Hui, Uygur, Kazak, Kirgiz, Tatar, Dongxiang, Salar and Bonan nationalities; Buddhism and Lamaism are followed by the Tibetan, Mongolian, Dai and Yugur nationalities; Christianity is followed by the Miao, Yao and Yi nationalities; Shamanism is followed by the Oroqen, Ewenki and Daur nationalities; the majority Han nationality believes in Buddhism, Christianity and Taoism.

chinatoday.com/general/a.htm#RELI

Not to intrude but I thought this might make a difference.

In my Eastern Cultures History class, my teacher (not Catholic or Christian as far as i know btw) explained to us that Christianity in the Eastern countries tends to be more of a blend between religions and not true Christianity/Catholicism. I don’t know the sources or anything but it would be interesting to look into. He said like some cultures think Budda is the same as Jesus but with different names… that kind of thing… So that might make a difference on percentages you two are talking about. Like I said, it would be worthwhile to look into further anyway.

 

[psyche23]

Hi 659

Evidence you ask? Your god recreating the first 6 days of creation on the moon. Don’t brush this off. If you have a god this is just mere child’s play for him or her. It is a god, correct. It can do this with a snap of a finger.

In the four gospels, jesus said nine times if you are a believer your prays would be answered. You are a believer. Pray that this happens. If it doesn’t your jesus was lying. He plainly said if you believe your prayer WOULD be answered.

This would be sufficient evidence for the world and myself.

It also says “thou shalt not put the Lord your God to the test”. He does answer prayers, just not something trivial and stupid enough like that. It’s insulting to him and puts God as our servant instead of the other way around.

 

[lkddav]

I really hope you’re not calling us delusional…

No. By the way, how old do you think the earth is?

 

[psyche23]

If God were to do this you would say it was a natural phenomeon
But as scripture does say

The Temptations in the Desert

Jesus was led into the desert by the Spirit to be tempted by the devil. He fasted forty days and forty nights, and afterward was hungry. The tempter approached and said to him: "If you are the Son of God, command these stones to turn into bread."
Jesus replied, "Scripture has it, 'Not on bread alone is man to live, but on every utterance that comes from the mouth of God.'"
Next the devil took him to the holy city, set him upon the parapet of the temple, and said, "If you are the Son of God, throw yourself down. Scripture has it, 'He will bid his angels take care of you; with their hands they will support you that you may never stumble on a stone.'"
Jesus replied, "Scripture also has it, 'You shall not put the Lord your God to the test.'"
The devil then took him to a lofty mountain peak and displayed before him all the kingdoms of the world in their magnificence, promising, "All these will I bestow on you if you prostrate yourself in homage before me."
At this, Jesus said to him, "Away with you, Satan! Scripture says: 'You shall do homage to the Lord your God; him alone shall you adore.'"
At that the devil left him, and angels came and waited on him.

[Matt. 4:1-11]

Now who is the devil in the desert --huh?

Answer the question please below

I ask and I ask what is evidence to you?

I have over and over again given you the rules of evidence.

The rule of evidence that are used today in a court of law and the people who wrote them being at one time atheist themselves till they applied the rule of law aganist the bible.

Your answer to the brilliant professors and experts in law is that they are dellusional.

Give me your rules of evidence at least I will know if you have any idea on what evidence is, how evidence becomes credible. and then fact.

You are not frustrating me in the least, I am not going away, and will have you and the others prove one way or the other weither it is on sound principles of science and laws of evidence that you have come to the decision of Atheism or if you are dellusional.

Again it is not up to me to prove already accepted evidence it is up to you to prove it wrong.

God Bless

Oh, sorry. I see you beat me to that scripture reference…

 

[psyche23]

No. By the way, how old do you think the earth is?

No idea. Whatever science says it is… I can see you’re getting at genesis here and the creation of the world in 6 days…

As far as that goes, not everything in the Bible is meant to be taken literally. There is absolute truth in the words yes, but not necessarily literally 6 human days. Could be referring to 6 days according to God which could be anything… Or it could just be to show us that on the seventh day of the week we are to rest. To give us an example of how to live.

Just anticipating your questions…forgive me if that’s not where you’re going here…

 

[lkddav]

It also says “thou shalt not put the Lord your God to the test”. He does answer prayers, just not something trivial and stupid enough like that. It’s insulting to him and puts God as our servant instead of the other way around.

This is nothing but rationalizing an incompetent god.

 

[psyche23]

No, i read it correctly. Why would 6 million people admit to being catholic if it was going to bring prosecution on them?

Same thing happened to the apostles. Why would they proclaim their faith knowing that they would likely be stoned to death. It means they believe in Jesus’s words and teachings absolutely and that they know this world doesn’t really matter in the long term.

 

[psyche23]

This is nothing but rationalizing an incompetent god.

In your terms…

prove it.

 

[psyche23]

This is nothing but rationalizing an incompetent god.

Besides which, he *DOES *answer my prayers. he always has. I can refer you back to my previous stories if you like but I think you get my point…

 

[lkddav]

No idea. Whatever science says it is… I can see you’re getting at genesis here and the creation of the world in 6 days…

As far as that goes, not everything in the Bible is meant to be taken literally. There is absolute truth in the words yes, but not necessarily literally 6 human days. Could be referring to 6 days according to God which could be anything… Or it could just be to show us that on the seventh day of the week we are to rest. To give us an example of how to live.

Just anticipating your questions…forgive me if that’s not where you’re going here…

I just asked off the top of my head actually. The word day is used 123 times in genesis… Every time it is used it means a 24 hour day. If the author of genesis wanted it to be any thing other than a 24 hour period he would have said so. There is nothing in genesis that would make anyone believe it meant anything other than a 24 hour period.
I wasn’t going at genesis by the way. I just thought it would be good evidence. People have threw in the “god days”, “era” and so forth because genesis is silly and doesn’t fit in with reality.