I am an atheist thread 3

[lkddav]

Your disagreement with the truth does not change it. To obstinately disagree with the definition of a word is no sign of intellect. You have conceded defeat before you ever entered the auditorium. I leave you to your pain and confusion. Call yourself Humpty Dumpty.

Munger

How intelligent does someone need to be not to believe in human virgin births, a man rising from the dead, epilepsey is caused by the devil, and people who cannot speak are possessed with the devil??

les

 

[lkddav]

jerks like Richard Dawkins. .

Want to know what a jerk is ???

A man that has influence over millions of people in third world countries.
That man influences these people not to practice birth control (condoms).
This leads to millions of people contracting or dying of AIDS.

Who is the bigger JERK. The POPE or Richard Dawkins???

les

 

[c659smith]

The relics of Peter (Simon bar Jonah-that-was) are felt to be in St. Peter’s in Rome. I don’t think that relics of any of the others are well-documented.

relic (rel′ik)

noun

an object, custom, etc. that has survived, wholly or partially, from the past
something that has historic interest because of its age and associations with the past, or that serves as a keepsake, or souvenir
remaining fragments; surviving parts; ruins
relict ()
Eccles. the body or a body part of, or some object associated with, a saint, martyr, etc., kept and reverenced as a memorial, as in the Roman Catholic and Eastern Orthodox churches

 

[rebeccal]

As we’ve said before, it all boils down to free will. God doesn’t get his kicks off watching us suffer… far from it. But in the same way a father must let his children make their own choices (good or bad), so does God do with us. If he prevented us from choosing love freely, we’d either rebel or give up and give in not knowing differently. Perfect love has to be given freely - both ways. If you restrict that love, then it’s not perfect anymore.

We choose our own paths. For better or worse. God our father is there to support us and accept us back when we make mistakes like any father should . If we choose to disown ourselves, that’s our problem and he’s given us plenty of help in the meantime.

I believe (although this is speculation- and that there is no Church document that even mentions this but it’s still within possibility), that when we die, we have the power to choose either heaven or hell. Those of us who have lived good lives, trying to please the lord will accept that they hold enough good within themselves to accept heaven. Those of us who have lived poor lives and fought God every step of the way will see their errors and knowing how perfect God is, would be so ashamed as to choose an eternity of suffering. When you’re in front of a perfect being, you recognize all the flaws within yourself and are either humbled or ashamed. I think ultimately it’s our choice. I mean just imagine being in front of an all-perfect creator and father, then think of everytime you’ve ever sinned, rejected him ect… I think the shame would be so incredibly great, you would just go into despair… Of course, that’s probably hard for you to imagine since you don’t believe at all, but I’d still suggest you try, just to get an idea of what I’m talking about.

Repeating the previous disclaimer, this is just speculation on my part. Nothing tells me it isn’t true so I am free to philosophize on this. If the Church were to say otherwise, I’d believe them over my piddly speculations, but I doubt they would ever say one way or the other on this particular matter. Still possible though.

Even if that particular belief that when we die, we get to make the ultimate choice weren’t true, it doesn’t take away from the previous statement of free will and perfect love.

That is so beautiful! Thank you for giving me such an encouraging thing to think about!

 

[lkddav]

You hadn’t heard Richard Dawkins is sort of atheism’s equivalent of the Scarboro Baptist Church? They’re ashamed to be associated with him, because he’s, well, a jerk.

This is only your opinion. You are talking out of your a–.

He says things like, “teaching children a religion ought to be classed as child abuse.”

Do you think it is child abuse for islam to teach their children to kill gentiles?

And yet he gets whole swaths of math and physics completely wrong

Have you read the bible lately. That’s hilarious

If you don’t know many, many people have antipathy toward atheists (“strong” ones, anyway)…you must have been spending quite a lot of time in a shack in Montana. Six or eight hundred years, I’d say.

Many people do have antipathy towards atheist, but they still can’t prove us wrong.

And I’m not going to strip my posts of all emotional or rhetorical content just so you feel comfortable. If I think Dawkins is a jerk, I’ll say so, at least if it’s necessary to make my point.

Neither will I. I think Your God should have been fired years ago. Charged with murder, genocide and war atrocities. After being found guilty, hung by the neck until dead.

les

 

[lkddav]

You are not asking for evidence-you are asking for an act of God. God can choose to do this act but this is not evidence.

You used “Fatima” as evidence for your God. Correct??
You used the “resurrection” as evidence for your God. Correct??

So why can’t I use an act of god for my evidence???

It is obvious after being asked this question about five or six times that you cannot answer it. So, I will answer it for you…

You know that Jesus was lying when he said that he would answer a believers prayers in the gospels. It is a fact that your prayers do not get answered. Make all the excuses for your God that you need, the fact is, your prayers go unanswered.

You are (like all christians) simply ignoring the parts of the bible that will erode your believe in your perfect god.

You are suffering from Cognitive Dissonance reference.com/search?q=cognitive%20dissonance

“In popular usage, it can be associated with the tendency for people to resist information that they don’t want to think about, because if they did it would create cognitive dissonance, and perhaps require them to act in ways that depart from their comfortable habits. They usually have at least partial awareness of the information, without having moved to full acceptance of it, and are thus in a state of denial about it.”

If you accept the facts your belief will crumble.

Any “Shrinks” in the house please correct me.

les

 

[c659smith]

Want to know what a jerk is ???

A man that has influence over millions of people in third world countries.
That man influences these people not to practice birth control (condoms).
This leads to millions of people contracting or dying of AIDS.

Who is the bigger JERK. The POPE or Richard Dawkins???

les

Les,
To state the Pope causes A.I.D.S. because of the Churches rules as it relates to birth contrlol (Condoms) which has been in existence since

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Birth_control

Among Christian denominations today there are a large variety of positions towards contraception. The Roman Catholic Church has disallowed artificial birth control for as far back as one can historically trace.

A,I,D,S, came well after the Catholic Church’s rules in regards to birth control. The Catholic Church also teaches that pre-marital sex is a sin, Homosexuality is a sin, etc… not just condoms.

The main cause of Aids is unprotected sex with multiple partners and esspecially between two males where Aids began to spread.

What happened to one moraly taking responsibility for ones own actions.

AIDS was spread because of HIV-1 introduced into the human population when hunters became exposed to infected blood from infected chimps. Furthermore speculation that humans might still be at risk for cross-species transmission because the bushmeat trade – the hunting and killing of chimpanzees and other endangered animals for human consumption – is still common practice in 3rd world west equatorial Africa.

as well as homosexual sex with multiple partners and then on to Bi-sexuals spreading this desease among the heterosexual community.

The contention that the Pope is a cause of spreading AIDS is rediculous. The Pope also states not to have sex till married with one spouse. Apparently 3rd world nations are not following the rules for unmarried sex and homosexuality but follows the rule of no condoms? Please.

 

[lkddav]

Again this happened over 2000 years ago so to get such biological evidence today is an impossibility as there is no body.

SWOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOSH, RIGHT OVER THE HEAD.!

This in itself from a Roman and Jewish civilzation that knew of Jesus,s claims when he was alive that He will rise from the dead.

If you mean Jesus Christ please give a source.

So I guess one of the greatest civilizations , the Roman Empire were idiots then for not securing Jesus’s body?

That one of the Largest Religions at the time and the insistence that Christ be crucified on the claims Jesus made that He was the Son of God and would rise from the dead would not secure Jesus’s body?
This act of guarding the Body of Jesus and to disprove of the ressurection and showing the body of Jesus in decay would have proven He was not the son of God. Thus saving their own beliefs for most of their populace. I guess they were idiots also.

Now the argument here is that they were not idiots and did guard the tomb.

That something had occurred and the Jewish and Roman authorites had to supress this quickly for their own mortal survival of control and wealth over the populace.

If you have any evidence of this outside the bible please give a source??

So why the immediate persecution of such believers. There were many different sects of the Jewish and pagan religions at the time but none persecuted for censorship to the extent or cruelty that was done for the next 300 years as was perpetrated on the Christians.

Poor christians, could someone please pass me a tissue.

I ask these questions to open dialogue and as reasonable evidence that this is history and well documented not just in the bible that something occurred.

If you have a source OUTSIDE of the bible that is evidence that a man returned from the dead, please pass it along?

I am not yet saying what occurred but will later with evidence to build upon these facts.

I can hardly wait !!!

les

 

[lkddav]

So why did you post on this thread if atheists don’t interest you?

As " A " stated. Interesting question.

Hey, 659

Are you presenting all of this “evidence” for us Atheist or yourself.

Are you presenting it to affirm your own faith?

Your doubting your faith, aren’t you ???

les

 

[lkddav]

Now we went through the facts (evidence) that Jesus did exists and the Apostles also.

Your evidence that “jesus christ” existed fell on it’s face.

In your own post you do not refute that Jesus Christ existed. There is firm evidence of this through many sources as I have shown.

Please, once again, give a source OUTSIDE of the bible of a man rising from death and bodily going to “heaven”.

So lets not go back to refute the existence of Jesus and His Apostles. I have not touched upon anything supernatural yet.

Once again. Do you mean a man by the name of jesus or Jesus Christ ’ superstar". We are going back and refuting the existence of jesus christ. You just cannot accept the fact that someone doesn’t believe in your holy man.

You have not provided enough evidence to prove a man did indeed return from the dead.

les

 

[c659smith]

You used “Fatima” as evidence for your God. Correct??
You used the “resurrection” as evidence for your God. Correct??

So why can’t I use an act of god for my evidence???

It is obvious after being asked this question about five or six times that you cannot answer it. So, I will answer it for you…

You know that Jesus was lying when he said that he would answer a believers prayers in the gospels. It is a fact that your prayers do not get answered. Make all the excuses for your God that you need, the fact is, your prayers go unanswered.

You are (like all christians) simply ignoring the parts of the bible that will erode your believe in your perfect god.

You are suffering from Cognitive Dissonance reference.com/search?q=cognitive%20dissonance

“In popular usage, it can be associated with the tendency for people to resist information that they don’t want to think about, because if they did it would create cognitive dissonance, and perhaps require them to act in ways that depart from their comfortable habits. They usually have at least partial awareness of the information, without having moved to full acceptance of it, and are thus in a state of denial about it.”

If you accept the facts your belief will crumble.

Any “Shrinks” in the house please correct me.

les

Les
again no one asked for these events to occurr God made that decision.

What have you read in the bible that God will grant every whim when asked?

Jesus will hear our prayers and sometimes the answer is no.

What you are asking sounds exactly like what Satan asked Jesus to do in the dessert, see below.

And after He had fasted 40 days and 40 nights He then became hungry. And the tempter came and said to Him, “If you are the Son of God, command that these stones become bread.” - Matthew 4:2-3

The real peril lay in Satan’s proposed reason for creating bread. That reason being “If you are the Son of God.” Satan was challenging Christ’s credentials.

Is this not what you are doing Les?

Then the devil took Him into the holy city; and he had Him stand on the pinnacle of the temple, and said to Him, “If you are the Son of God throw yourself down. For it is written, ‘He will give His angels charge concerning you,’ and, 'On their hands they will bear you up, lest you strike your foot against a stone.” - Matthew 4:5-6

Jesus said to him, “On the other hand it is written, ‘You shall not put the Lord your God to the test.’” - Matthew 4:7

Les are you trying to put God to the test like Satan?

Les my faith does not crumble for what you ask has been asked before but by Satan to Jesus.

It re-inforces my beliefs.

 

[lkddav]

By the way, it is Friday, and your favourite phooney has partaken of some Jack Daniels.

Excellent whiskey ! I am a Vodka fan myself. But, it all gets the job done.

 

[lkddav]

For fun, who wants to lecture me about “A”-lcoholic. Is it the belief that there is no lcoholic?

Here’s the truth. If you drink, Your on a greased pole to HELL !!!
BBBUUUUUUUUHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAAAAAA !!!



les

 

[c659smith]

Here’s the truth. If you drink, Your on a greased pole to HELL !!!
BBBUUUUUUUUHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAAAAAA !!!



les

Well that"s far from thre truth.

JESUS TURNED WATER INTO WINE.

JESUS TURNED WINE INTO HIS BLOOD.

 

[Jonathan82]

Your evidence that “jesus christ” existed fell on it’s face.

Please, once again, give a source OUTSIDE of the bible of a man rising from death and bodily going to “heaven”.

Once again. Do you mean a man by the name of jesus or Jesus Christ ’ superstar". We are going back and refuting the existence of jesus christ. You just cannot accept the fact that someone doesn’t believe in your holy man.

You have not provided enough evidence to prove a man did indeed return from the dead.

les

So why cant the Bible be fact to you? at least the New testament? It is a Historical record you know unless someone proves it was all a story but no one has. What makes the new testament so different than other historical writings of its time? Is it just because a man came back from the dead? after all if you believe in a god don’t you think coming from the dead wouldn’t be a problem? You know those things were written so long ago like a lot of things wars etc and people may choose not to believe, but thats what faith is all about. What about Demonic possession were the person speaks in different languages they never knew? and also affirms the existence of hell.

Clearly it cannot be proven that Jesus is god but there is enough evidence to believe it. And I do.

 

[lkddav]

I make no claims to having a direct-line connection to God, in which I always know exactly what He is asking of me. I have found that God doesn’t work that way - He speaks quietly and I have to pay attention.
As it is a relationship between Creator and created, it is not like a spousal relationship, but more like a loving parent-child relationship. So, no, I don’t always understand why He is asking me to do something.

AOG

This is in your imagination.

To answer your initial question: Yes, I would kill if I truly believed God was asking me to. The reasons are:

1. I trust in His mercy completely.
2. I love Him.
3. I have experienced His perfect Mercy, therefore I believe that He is also perfectly Just.

This is the same thing that the people who kill abortion doctors say.

les

.

 

[c659smith]

So why cant the Bible be fact to you? at least the New testament? It is a Historical record you know unless someone proves it was all a story but no one has. What makes the new testament so different than other historical writings of its time? Is it just because a man came back from the dead? after all if you believe in a god don’t you think coming from the dead wouldn’t be a problem? You know those things were written so long ago like a lot of things wars etc and people may choose not to believe, but thats what faith is all about. What about Demonic possession were the person speaks in different languages they never knew? and also affirms the existence of hell.

Clearly it cannot be proven that Jesus is god but there is enough evidence to believe it. And I do.

Jesus’ Resurrection - Individual Decisions
The men who witnessed Jesus’ Resurrection testified to it with their lives. Their testimony,

 

[Jonathan82]

AOG

This is in your imagination.

This is the same thing that the people who kill abortion doctors say.

les

.

Lets look at it from a logical point of view les. Lets just say for some reason you believe in god (we know you don’t) and God is all powerful and creator of everything (as is written) what makes you think that your logic is better than his? after all you wouldn’t be able to comprehend him hence he works in mysterious ways. So to all those nonbelievers that stopped believing because they saw pain and suffering and said life isn’t fair… well who are we to say after all when we judge him we are comparing ourselves to a God, the God, the one and only.

 

[c659smith]

AOG

This is in your imagination.

This is the same thing that the people who kill abortion doctors say.

les

.

Les,
When was the last time an abortion doctor was killed by a pro life advocate and how many were killed by a pro life Advocate?

It is more likely today that a peaeful demonstrator at an abortion clinic will be attacked or killed by a pro-choice candidate as they are quickly losing the battle of abortion on demand.

I can say that 50,000,000 babies lost their live to abortions.

I can say that thousands of women lost their lives to legal abortions.

I can say that tens of thousands of women committed suicide due to legal abortions.

Abortions hurt women.

No no one needs to kill an abortionist as they are their own demise and worst enemy.

 

[lkddav]

Les,
To state the Pope causes A.I.D.S. because of the Churches rules as it relates to birth contrlol (Condoms) which has been in existence since

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Birth_control

You are a liar. I did not say the pope “causes” aids. He helps spread it with the teaching of no birth control.

Among Christian denominations today there are a large variety of positions towards contraception. The Roman Catholic Church has disallowed artificial birth control for as far back as one can historically trace.

What’s your point??

A,I,D,S, came well after the Catholic Church’s rules in regards to birth control. The Catholic Church also teaches that pre-marital sex is a sin, Homosexuality is a sin, etc… not just condoms.

In other words. Stick to your 2000 year old bullsh-- no matter how many it kills.
Pre-marital sex is not a sin.
Homosexuality is not a sin in my opinion. Hating a homosexual is the same thing as hating someone born with brown hair.

The main cause of Aids is unprotected sex with multiple partners and esspecially between two males where Aids began to spread.

No sh-- !!! If the catholic church believes this why not condon the use of condoms.------ DUUUUUUUUUUUUHHHHHHHH

AIDS was spread because of HIV-1 introduced into the human population when hunters became exposed to infected blood from infected chimps. Furthermore speculation that humans might still be at risk for cross-species transmission because the bushmeat trade – the hunting and killing of chimpanzees and other endangered animals for human consumption – is still common practice in 3rd world west equatorial Africa.

Source please.

as well as homosexual sex with multiple partners and then on to Bi-sexuals spreading this desease among the heterosexual community.

Have you ever heard of blood transfusions?

The contention that the Pope is a cause of spreading AIDS is rediculous

.

No it’s not. You said yourself that aid’s was spread by unprotected partners. The Pope says not protect yourself because god doesn’t like it. The Pope is spreading aids.

The Pope also states not to have sex till married with one spouse.

The Pope is living in the 3rd century. He is fighting Hormones. HE will lose.

Apparently 3rd world nations are not following the rules for unmarried sex and homosexuality but follows the rule of no condoms? Please.

The only thing some of these people have in third world countries is sex. It is free and it feels good. The Pope should recognize this and not impose 3rd century beliefs.

The Pope is not clued in to reality.

les