I am an atheist thread 3

[c659smith]

OK I will play your game of symantecs but a liar I am not.

1. The Pope teaches abstinence, no sex outside of marriage, and homosexuality and bi seuality as a sin.

to say the Pope helps spread HIV because of teaching no birth control is again rediculous.

Yes I am going to follow the Popes teaching on condoms but will have wild and crazy sex with same sex and multiple partners is like saying I am going follow the ruling of the Catholic Church and the Pope but will practice Islam.

Think about what you are saying man. 3rd world countries esspecially certain areas of Africa are in an epidemic because of war and distain for human life.

The Sudan, Somalia, and the Congo is a perfect case in point. Civil wars,murders, and rapes are rampant.

The illegal harvesting of chimps and other wild animals for the lucrative meat trade is another.

Well if you follow the Pope and his sacred teachings then sex outside of marriage is a sin. Does not matter what you think or your opinion and if you were to follow the sacred teachings there would be no spread of AIDS.

Here is one of the sources but it is well known now where it came from.
BBC NEWS | Health | HIV origin ‘found in wild chimps’

Aids has been around for about 75 years but the sexual freedom revolution, the open practice and opportunity for multiple sex partners in the gay and bisexual community in the famous so called bath houses in New York City and San Francisco along with the sharing of needles from the illegal intravenous drug use by this sector of society turned this desease into a panademic in the western hemisphere. For the heterosexual community later on or around 1983 with the ease and easy access of contraception devices and drugs along with societies acceptance of contraception uses and if they failed abortions on demand helped to fuel the spread of this desease in the west esspecially in the countries of Sweeden and the United States where no ramifications due to unwanted pregnancies in Sweeden and the United States were easily terminated.

As far as Africa it is due to the civil wars, wide spread areas of non civilized acts such as rape and promescuity

 

[_A]

Jesus will hear our prayers and sometimes the answer is no.

I think this is indistinguishable from a god that exists only in stories and the belief of adherents. I would like to think of a prayer that will provide an observable answer - no matter what the answer is. I mean he did promise to answer. If you pray for pi, shouldn’t you get an answer of some kind? He might not give you the right answer (“the answer is no”) but he DID promise to answer.

What you are asking sounds exactly like what Satan asked Jesus to do in the dessert,

lol sorry, that just brings up very funny images…

It re-inforces my beliefs.

I see that ANY thing that happens reinforces your beliefs. Is your belief not at all subjected to the evidence our senses can gather?

 

[phooney]

“lol sorry, that just brings up very funny images…”

hahaha! Jesus’ temptation of the soggy biscuit or something

 

[_A]

So why cant the Bible be fact to you?

Because if I accepted that book as ‘fact’, I would have to (to be fair and even) accept all other books as fact. That would be mad.
The bible may relate a story here and there that happened to be true, but there are many that are simply not fact. Since the bible itself does not come colour coded for fact/allegory/fiction, we have to suspect everything, and look for other documents to confirm historic events written there.

 

[_A]

Jesus’ Resurrection - Individual Decisions
The men who witnessed Jesus’ Resurrection testified to it with their lives. Their testimony,

Any evidence outside of the bible? Why was it not important enough for others to write down?

 

[_A]

Lets look at it from a logical point of view les. Lets just say for some reason you believe in god

This is where the problem starts, Jonathan. Unless you personally decide to believe that stuff against all evidence, it can not make sense. This is because it does not make sense. Believe in Allah hard enough and the Qu’ran will make sense in the same way.

 

[Jonathan82]

This is where the problem starts, Jonathan. Unless you personally decide to believe that stuff against all evidence, it can not make sense. This is because it does not make sense. Believe in Allah hard enough and the Qu’ran will make sense in the same way.

Against what evidence? no one has disproved it either. Can someone tell me please were the evidence is that he did not exist; at least we have something to back up his existence (the Bible) which relates to factual historic events happening around that time. What I’m saying is there is more for it than against it therefore a lot of people believe it but not all.

And again we rely on faith, since there isn’t other evidence outside the Bible that I know of or simply we were not there to see it for ourselves. What I’m real curious about is Diabolic Possession.

*  Victim speaks or understands unknown languages without ever studying the language being spoken or heard
* Victim clearly knows things that are distant or hidden
* Victim can predict future events (sometimes through dreams)
* Victim has an intense hatred for holy things
* Victim shows a physical strength far above his age or normal condition

Now I have a Bachelor on Psychology and working on a Masters in Therapy and well we definitely cannot explain the first point I listed, we could come up with reasons for the rest.

 

[c659smith]

Against what evidence? no one has disproved it either. Can someone tell me please were the evidence is that he did not exist; at least we have something to back up his existence (the Bible) which relates to factual historic events happening around that time. What I’m saying is there is more for it than against it therefore a lot of people believe it but not all.

And again we rely on faith, since there isn’t other evidence outside the Bible that I know of or simply we were not there to see it for ourselves. What I’m real curious about is Diabolic Possession.

*  Victim speaks or understands unknown languages without ever studying the language being spoken or heard
* Victim clearly knows things that are distant or hidden
* Victim can predict future events (sometimes through dreams)
* Victim has an intense hatred for holy things
* Victim shows a physical strength far above his age or normal condition

Now I have a Bachelor on Psychology and working on a Masters in Therapy and well we definitely cannot explain the first point I listed, we could come up with reasons for the rest.

Johnathan you are absolutely correct. There is evidence aganist the many other forms of Religions but none aganist Jesus.on the contrary there is evidence as I have shown the first two forms testimony and eyewitness several more forms to go…

 

[c659smith]

Any evidence outside of the bible? Why was it not important enough for others to write down?

Is the collapse of Rome in less than 300 years not enough testimony for you or how about the christians taking over that country without a single battle?

 

[c659smith]

Because if I accepted that book as ‘fact’, I would have to (to be fair and even) accept all other books as fact. That would be mad.
The bible may relate a story here and there that happened to be true, but there are many that are simply not fact. Since the bible itself does not come colour coded for fact/allegory/fiction, we have to suspect everything, and look for other documents to confirm historic events written there.

and we do.

does the new testamnet depict the geographical locations that are being writtent? you betcha

does the new testament depict factual data on rulers for that time period written about?
you betcha

99% of the data that coincides as it relates to the times the bible was written relates to other historians not attributed or part of the bible…
it aggrees with most or all other historical data.

 

[_A]

What I’m real curious about is Diabolic Possession.

*  Victim speaks or understands unknown languages without ever studying the language being spoken or heard
* Victim clearly knows things that are distant or hidden
* Victim can predict future events (sometimes through dreams)
* Victim has an intense hatred for holy things
* Victim shows a physical strength far above his age or normal condition

Now I have a Bachelor on Psychology and working on a Masters in Therapy and well we definitely cannot explain the first point I listed, we could come up with reasons for the rest.

You may be interested in knowing that if you can demonstrate any of these things, there is a prize of a million dollars up for grabs with the Randi Foundation. If any of these things are demonstrable and repeatable, then why hasn’t his money been taken?
If you can think of a specific case I would look into it a little, but the trouble is that, even if you prove something unusual, it does not suggest a god, certainly not a specific one.

 

[c659smith]

and we do.

does the new testamnet depict the geographical locations that are being writtent? you betcha

does the new testament depict factual data on rulers for that time period written about?
you betcha

99% of the data that coincides as it relates to the times the bible was written relates to other historians not attributed or part of the bible…
it aggrees with most or all other historical data.

Oh but at your dismay the New Testament does depict the history of the times as scholors have agreed and with that makes the bible as a book credible under the definition of evidence.

 

[c659smith]

You may be interested in knowing that if you can demonstrate any of these things, there is a prize of a million dollars up for grabs with the Randi Foundation. If any of these things are demonstrable and repeatable, then why hasn’t his money been taken?
If you can think of a specific case I would look into it a little, but the trouble is that, even if you prove something unusual, it does not suggest a god, certainly not a specific one.

THE REAL PRESENCE CHRIST IN THE EUCHARIST

Eucharistic Miracle
Lanciano, Italy 8th Century A.D.

Ancient Anxanum, the city of the Frentanese, has contained for over twelve centuries the first and greatest Eucharistic Miracle of the Catholic Church. This wondrous Event took place in the 8th century A.D. in the little Church of St. Legontian, as a divine response to a Basilian monk’s doubt about Jesus’ Real Presence in the Eucharist.

During Holy Mass, after the two-fold consecration, the host was changed into live Flesh and the wine was changed into live Blood, which coagulated into five globules, irregular and differing in shape and size.

The Host-Flesh, as can be very distinctly observed today, has the same dimensions as the large host used today in the Latin church; it is light brown and appears rose-colored when lighted from the back.

The Blood is coagulated and has an earthy color resembling the yellow of ochre.

Various ecclesiastical investigation (“Recognitions”) were conducted since 1574.

In 1970-'71 and taken up again partly in 1981 there took place a scientific investigation by the most illustrious scientist Prof. Odoardo Linoli, eminent Professor in Anatomy and Pathological Histology and in Chemistry and Clinical Microscopy. He was assisted by Prof. Ruggero Bertelli of the University of Siena.

The analyses were conducted with absolute and unquestionable scientific precision and they were documented with a series of microscopic photographs.
These analyses sustained the following conclusions:

The Flesh is real Flesh. The Blood is real Blood.

The Flesh and the Blood belong to the human species.

The Flesh consists of the muscular tissue of the heart.

In the Flesh we see present in section: the myocardium, the endocardium, the vagus nerve and also the left ventricle of the heart for the large thickness of the myocardium.

The Flesh is a “HEART” complete in its essential structure.

The Flesh and the Blood have the same blood-type: AB (Blood-type identical to that which Prof. Baima Bollone uncovered in the Holy Shroud of Turin).

In the Blood there were found proteins in the same normal proportions (percentage-wise) as are found in the sero-proteic make-up of the fresh normal blood.

In the Blood there were also found these minerals: chlorides, phosphorus, magnesium, potassium, sodium and calcium.

The preservation of the Flesh and of the Blood, which were left in their natural state for twelve centuries and exposed to the action of atmospheric and biological agents, remains an extraordinary phenomenon.

---

Fig. 1 - Eosine x 200. Overall histological aspect of a Flesh sample with fibers collected in bundles with longitudinal orientation as it occurs in the outer surface layers of the heart.

Fig. 2 - Miracle Heart in Lanciano. Mallory x 250. An artery and, very close, a branch of the vagal nerve.

Fig. 3 - Miracle Heart in Lanciano. Mallory x 400. Evidence of the “Rough” aspect of the endocardium; the syncytoid structure of the myocardial tissue

Fig. 4 - Elution-absorption test x 80. Above: Hemagglutination test on blood sample in Lanciano: on the left, anti A serum used; on the right, anti-B serum. Below: hemoagglutination test on a Flesh sample in Lanciano: left, with anti-A serum, right,with anti-B serum. It appears thus that the Flesh and the Blood in Lanciano belong to AB blood group.

Fig. 5 - Electro-phoretic pattern of Blood proteins (Cromoscan photometer). The profile of serum fractions is normal and superimposable to that of a fresh serum sample.

In conclusion, it may be said that Science, when called upon to testify, has given a certain and thorough response as regards the authenticity of the Eucharistic Miracle of Lanciano.

would this work or the shroud of tourin or the many saints that their bodies do not rot or turn to dust even though there is no taxidermy done to them. many have been taken out of the ground hundreds of years later fully intact. as a matter of fact the coffin and their clothes have rotted around them.

 

[_A]

and we do.

does the new testamnet depict the geographical locations that are being writtent? you betcha

does the new testament depict factual data on rulers for that time period written about?
you betcha

99% of the data that coincides as it relates to the times the bible was written relates to other historians not attributed or part of the bible…
it aggrees with most or all other historical data.

It agrees only if you choose very carefully which parts of the bible to mention. If the whole document is examined, there are too many historical errors.
Did the earth get flooded completely so that only the animals which fit onto one boat were killed, including all humans except one family? No.
Any branch of science will prove this false. Simple thinking even proves it false.
Do snakes talk ? No.
Did one pair of parents a few thousand years ago populate the whole earth? No.
Is the earth flat, with 4 corners, resting on pillars? No.
Is the bible full of such fanciful, impossible tails? Yes.

 

[_A]

Oh but at your dismay the New Testament does depict the history of the times as scholors have agreed and with that makes the bible as a book credible under the definition of evidence.

Just how much evidence would it take to convince you that the -od of the Jews was the real one and Jesus Christ was just a regular guy, not a god?

 

[_A]

THE REAL PRESENCE CHRIST IN THE EUCHARIST …snip by A…In conclusion, it may be said that Science, when called upon to testify, has given a certain and thorough response as regards the authenticity of the Eucharistic Miracle of Lanciano.

would this work or the shroud of tourin or the many saints that their bodies do not rot or turn to dust even though there is no taxidermy done to them. many have been taken out of the ground hundreds of years later fully intact. as a matter of fact the coffin and their clothes have rotted around them.

What if someone who disbelieved in your god had a similar miracle? Would that disprove *your * god?
What I would really like to know is this. Since this happens in other faiths as often as yours, what makes you think that this points to YOUR god? Why would he provide obscure bits of evidence to a few, yet not treat everyone else to the evidence?

 

[c659smith]

I think this is indistinguishable from a god that exists only in stories and the belief of adherents. I would like to think of a prayer that will provide an observable answer - no matter what the answer is. I mean he did promise to answer. If you pray for pi, shouldn’t you get an answer of some kind? He might not give you the right answer (“the answer is no”) but he DID promise to answer.lol sorry, that just brings up very funny images…I see that ANY thing that happens reinforces your beliefs. Is your belief not at all subjected to the evidence our senses can gather?

Again where did God say he would grant all things to the way one wanted it. I showed where He does not.

Jesus said your prayers would be answered.

Again you are trying to decipher the bible and you do a bad job of it.

I showed you distinct scripture that what you are asking is wrong

 

[c659smith]

It agrees only if you choose very carefully which parts of the bible to mention. If the whole document is examined, there are too many historical errors.
Did the earth get flooded completely so that only the animals which fit onto one boat were killed, including all humans except one family? No.
Any branch of science will prove this false. Simple thinking even proves it false.
Do snakes talk ? No.
Did one pair of parents a few thousand years ago populate the whole earth? No.
Is the earth flat, with 4 corners, resting on pillars? No.
Is the bible full of such fanciful, impossible tails? Yes.

Why do you change streams we were talking of the new testament not the old testament. Lets not try to cover a forum for 8000 years plus.

Oh yea and by the way it was the Catholic Church who discovered the world was not flat.

 

[c659smith]

What if someone who disbelieved in your god had a similar miracle? Would that disprove *your * god?
What I would really like to know is this. Since this happens in other faiths as often as yours, what makes you think that this points to YOUR god? Why would he provide obscure bits of evidence to a few, yet not treat everyone else to the evidence?

where is this scientific real evidence found in other faiths that we still have now to test and see.

 

[c659smith]

What if someone who disbelieved in your god had a similar miracle? Would that disprove *your * god?
What I would really like to know is this. Since this happens in other faiths as often as yours, what makes you think that this points to YOUR god? Why would he provide obscure bits of evidence to a few, yet not treat everyone else to the evidence?

you will see though maybe in your lifetime similar miracles being done but it will not be of a God but Lucifer.