I am an atheist thread 3

[_A]

What about Demonic possession were the person speaks in different languages they never knew? and also affirms the existence of hell.

I think “demonic possessions” are evidence that people have mental illnesses that we may not fully understand.

Les I don’t recall a mental illness were you can speak multiple languages. and I have the DSMIV right here.

I am new to becoming a practicing Catholic so the old testament does seem far fetched but thats ok because I’m not Jewish. I don’t believe all of the OT but I do believe the commandments. No I don’t believe that a person got swallowed by a fish and spent 3 days and 3 nights in the belly(OT) but at the same time we have to understand this was written long ago by people who describe things differently than us.

With so much fiction to be found in the bible, how can any of it be considered accurate?

 

[lkddav]

another intelligent conversation From the peanut gallery. or should I say the Ape family. Monkey see monkey do !!

You didn’t quote my original quote.

Your coming unglued aren’t you?

les

 

[_A]

For the Atheist on this site in the area of your soul I will pray for you.

For you have knowledge of God the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit
and have rejected Him and if continuing on this route will only lead you to darkness.

It is for God to Judge but by rejecting Jesus you reject His mercy.

I for one if judged would lose that court case as I am a sinner and am not perfect.

If I am wrong that God exists then I have lost nothing.

On the other hand if you are wrong that God does not exist then you have lost everything.

Atheism as a whole is a bad bet.

the nut here has spoken.

This is so similar to ‘Pascals Wager’ that I can not tell the difference.
Do you know about Pascals Wager?

 

[_A]

yes but if I am wrong I lose nothing

if you are wrong you lose everything

bad bet.

Wrong.
If you are wrong, you have worshipped the wrong god. If there is a god, do you think he will like that better, or…

If I am wrong, I have not worshipped false gods, simply not found a god worthy of belief.

I think the rational position is the better bet.

 

[lkddav]

I don’t want to see this thread become a name calling contest, lkddav.
Could you help me with that, please. I am sure our hosts would appreciate it.

No problem.

les

 

[c659smith]

It also can not be known. You have only belief.

Yes but in the Catholic Religion that belief is built upon some evidence.

Jesus did exist

The Apostles were real people

There was testimony to include eye witness testimony

There is separate historical recordings of the events other than the Bible.

There is para normal events that have occurred in reference to Catholicism to include real events that can be witnessed today.

Can I prove to you that Jesus is God with you using the 5 senses well doubtful as you will have an excuse for it.

Just alone science cannot replicate the Shroud of Turin

Science cannot explain the miracle of the Eucharist.

Science cannot explain the many saints that are not dust yet without being mummified.

Yes there is certain faith and blind faith that must be used but as I stated if I am wrong I lose nothing if you are wrong you lose everything.

Love what is it? Does it require faith and at times blind faith.

Or does Atheism require proof.

 

[_A]

let me be the first to say this, I believe in God whether you like it or not. Why am I saying this? because it just seems dumb for an Atheist to argue with someone that rely s on faith. I cant prove Gods existence to you with provable fact, you cant disprove him so why are we all arguing for?

This puts you and I in an excellent position, Jonathan. Now that we can accept each other as believer and non-believer, that leaves us free to learn about each other.
Like earlier, I learned about the Catholic tradition of denying self-indulgence on Fridays (I paraphrase) when I asked about the ‘fish on Fridays’ custom which I had observed among the Catholics.
You can ask me things about atheists which you don’t understand.

I hope you stay and do just that!

 

[c659smith]

You didn’t quote my original quote.

Your coming unglued aren’t you?

les

No Les your proof there is no God is less than the proof I have given you there is.

I become unglued when you launch personal attacks on God or others. This is a Catholic Forum.

 

[lkddav]

Les if I stated these offense remarks to you would you be offended along with your other adjectives used here as it relates to me or others on this thread with phooney. If you wish a peace treaty just say so otherwise the thread is dead
Well you tell me.

'A" As the starter of the thread I did not start this and have been nothing but civil when it come to personal attacks of God or others.You are on a Catholic Forum and as such there is a moral and civil responsibility here.

Fair enough.

I will agree to a peace treaty and apologias for calling you a nutcase. As “A” pointed out, I was out of line with that.

Agreed ?

Les

 

[_A]

I am going to pry apart your first statement and try to understand it, FoA…

Actually atheists bear as much burden of proof

Without positive assertions, atheists bear no burden of proof.

to show that man is the highest intelligence,

I personally have never asserted that man is the highest intelligence. Did you mean something else, or someone else?

as theists bear burden to show God is.

Theists do not so much bear this burden as buckle under it. The evidence that would be needed to back up such large, impossible claims would be, well, large and impossible.

 

[_A]

what do you believe in?

I don’t believe.

It’s a habit of mine.

 

[c659smith]

This puts you and I in an excellent position, Jonathan. Now that we can accept each other as believer and non-believer, that leaves us free to learn about each other.
Like earlier, I learned about the Catholic tradition of denying self-indulgence on Fridays (I paraphrase) when I asked about the ‘fish on Fridays’ custom which I had observed among the Catholics.
You can ask me things about atheists which you don’t understand.

I hope you stay and do just that!

The quotes I have given Les earlier is why the fasting in the Catholic Religion it is a highly religios time and starts the ministry of Jesus Christ immediately after his baptism.
Matthew 4: 1 - 11​

1 Then Jesus was led up by the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted by the devil.
2 And he fasted forty days and forty nights, and afterward he was hungry.
3 And the tempter came and said to him, “If you are the Son of God, command these stones to become loaves of bread.”
4 But he answered, “It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God.'" 5 Then the devil took him to the holy city, and set him on the pinnacle of the temple, 6 and said to him, "If you are the Son of God, throw yourself down; for it is written, He will give his angels charge of you,’ and On their hands they will bear you up, lest you strike your foot against a stone.'" 7 Jesus said to him, "Again it is written, You shall not tempt the Lord your God.’”
8 Again, the devil took him to a very high mountain, and showed him all the kingdoms of the world and the glory of them;
9 and he said to him, “All these I will give you, if you will fall down and worship me.”
10 Then Jesus said to him, “Begone, Satan! for it is written, `You shall worship the Lord your God and him only shall you serve.’”
11 Then the devil left him, and behold, angels came and ministered to him.

 

[_A]

You are on a Catholic Forum and as such there is a moral and civil responsibility here.

To blazes with that complicated stuff, I just want to be respectful of our hosts.
They don’t like name calling, I am sure. Joking is OK…but I don’t think I would like someone here suggesting that I were a lawbreaker.

Let’s try to take it easy on each other…

 

[c659smith]

I don’t believe.

It’s a habit of mine.

Do you believe in love “A”

 

[_A]

Wow, this thread has really degenerated. Perhaps time for a time-out, folks?

Perhaps a change of subject, to break the mood…

As an atheist, I find it a challenge to discuss matters of faith. There seems to be a built-in offendedness (maybe that isn’t a word) when I suggest that someone has wasted their whole life on a misunderstanding. I tend to get a little heated when someone suggests that only their god could have supplied morals. (because I have carefully and caringly developed morals without god).

How can we leave the discussion open, without offending as easily?

 

[_A]

Do you believe in love “A”

No.

I thought I covered this already…I do not believe.

 

[FaithofAbraham]

I am going to pry apart your first statement and try to understand it, FoA…
Without positive assertions, atheists bear no burden of proof.I personally have never asserted that man is the highest intelligence. Did you mean something else, or someone else?Theists do not so much bear this burden as buckle under it. The evidence that would be needed to back up such large, impossible claims would be, well, large and impossible.

That’s your default if you lack belief in God, man is the highest intelligence – a positive assertion. Flipping it to a negative about lack of belief doesn’t let you off the hook.

Unless you believe in aliens, do you?

 

[c659smith]

Fair enough.

I will agree to a peace treaty and apologias for calling you a nutcase. As “A” pointed out, I was out of line with that.

Agreed ?

Les

Les I accept and also do apologize for anything I have said to offend you. Well enogh of the mushy B.S.

Do you know something funny I would take the chance and say that we would be good friends and have some wonderful debates. Lets not agree to disagree

For I do live in la la land, Orlando Florida and I will bet this you will never guess what I do for a living.

 

[Jonathan82]

This puts you and I in an excellent position, Jonathan. Now that we can accept each other as believer and non-believer, that leaves us free to learn about each other.
Like earlier, I learned about the Catholic tradition of denying self-indulgence on Fridays (I paraphrase) when I asked about the ‘fish on Fridays’ custom which I had observed among the Catholics.
You can ask me things about atheists which you don’t understand.

I hope you stay and do just that!

Excellent, I totally understand your point of view as a matter of fact I used to be an atheist myself. I would never take the Bible literally cause if I did I would also not believe, note I am speaking for myself not for the others in these forums. Its just that recently I started thinking could this be true? I am too amazed by our world and universe personally its now hard for me to accept that there is no architect behind it. I personally also don’t believe (but cant prove) that we are alone in the Universe because its so big and the possibilities are endless. When Jesus said to Pilot my Kingdom is not of this world, I being a lover of science said huh his talking about different dimensions but he talks to them in a simpler way so not to confuse them so much. I think what is written of Jesus is believable if you believe in technology you’d agree. But I’m not so much talking about technology all I’m saying is Technology in the future will be able to do things we could only imagine.I believe Jesus was an advanced being and son of our creator. But you may ask me why what proof and I say well what made an Atheist like myself believe well. well too bad I cant prove it haha but its called personal experience and truthfully one that does not believe wont believe unless they experience something which they cannot explain;and even then you might need more.

 

[c659smith]

No.

I thought I covered this already…I do not believe.

I think I got it now. I will not profess my faith and beliefs or prove my faith to you unless you ask.

Let talk about fishing

I was stationed up in Grand Forks North Dakota for a couple of years and can relate to the fishing and the winter scenes. But it’s a dry cold. ha ha ha