I am an atheist thread 3

[Lapell]

Wow, another thread!

I disagree that church holds society together. Laws hold society together. And unfortunately where I live, there are not too many laws protecting the rights of homosexual couples. They are not allowed to marry and share the same rights as heterosexuals couples.
What is so wrong about being gay? I would like to know what you think makes a person homosexual.

I would also like to know what YOU think makes a person sexually attracted to someone of the same sex.

 

[phooney]

Well, I held out as long as I could, but C659smith is now on my ignore list. I didn’t think there would be anybody that was so willfully ridiculous as him that was also at the same time able to muster up the motor skills to use a computer, let alone actually communicate on some kind of low level as well.

I’m hoping S4J, Armor of God and Natural Enquirer are still planning on contributing to the thread.

 

[Jonathan82]

I would also like to know what YOU think makes a person sexually attracted to someone of the same sex.

heres a helpful link, my opinion from a psychological stand point is that it stems from amount of testosterone in the body to the relationship you may have with you mother or father and finally to what the abstract on this link says.

sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6WH0-45BT69K-H&_user=10&_rdoc=1&_fmt=&_orig=search&_sort=d&view=c&_acct=C000050221&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=e3b55c34bb1ebf55da2ececba0eec733

 

[FaithofAbraham]

Does the same apply to you? If someone can paint better than you we decide they are more intelligent? Of course not, especially if you don’t have the cultural background to know what value painting has.

I’m just talking about the ability to even attempt it to paint something that resembles anything. If you can get a dolphin to paint a smiley face or something I’ll take what you say seriously. If not then the evidence is they are far more limited in mental ability than we are.

Wait for it…BANG! There you have just jammed your god in with no reason for it! How does this make sense if you don’t believe in a sky-god?There is nothing you have said which points to a god - except for your wishes, and wishful thinking does not have much to do with reality.

That is the basic definition of our God, the thing that causes you to exist and controls you. There’s no way you can argue that you only have the illusion of free will, it’s a fact that your brain operates by forces and process which you have no control over.

I just proved your God for you.

 

[_A]

The fact of the matter is there is no refutable or provable on this matter, and take a look at my link about Radical Contructivism and tell me what you think. I like peoples opinions on this. My responses are non Bias because I am looking at both sides and its helpful.

Honestly I tried to go through it, but I don’t understand (the link).

Do you think you could say what you mean in simpler language?

 

[_A]

By the way A I saw some of your fishing pics and where is that place you are at? Its Beautiful.:yup:

Northern Canada. 62 Degrees north, to be more precise. The pictures were mostly from Yellowknife River.

It is worth living through the cold.

 

[_A]

heres a helpful link, my opinion from a psychological stand point is that it stems from amount of testosterone in the body to the relationship you may have with you mother or father and finally to what the abstract on this link says.

sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6WH0-45BT69K-H&_user=10&_rdoc=1&_fmt=&_orig=search&_sort=d&view=c&_acct=C000050221&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=e3b55c34bb1ebf55da2ececba0eec733

Why does it matter what the cause is? What if it is just a whim, or a weekend of rebellion against authority? What if it is a cold-hearted, conscious decision to enjoy a sexually active life without risking procreating?

 

[_A]

I’m just talking about the ability to even attempt it to paint something that resembles anything. If you can get a dolphin to paint a smiley face or something I’ll take what you say seriously. If not then the evidence is they are far more limited in mental ability than we are.

I think you have a quite narrow range there. Hope it works for you.
(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)
Check out this story, you might get a chuckle out of it.LOL

I just proved your God for you.

I don’t have a god. You have proved nothing, except that you seem to find it tough to accept that some people don’t need a god.

 

[FaithofAbraham]

I think you have a quite narrow range there. Hope it works for you.

Check out this story, you might get a chuckle out of it.LOL

Training an animal to slop paint around isn’t the same as an animal painting a meaningful representation of something.

I don’t have a god. You have proved nothing, except that you seem to find it tough to accept that some people don’t need a god.

And now you are just in denial of what even scientists say, you have no free will, everything you think and do is controlled by other forces. You don’t do anything to cause neuron activity, they just do it then you experience it, like a passenger in a vehicle.

Those forces are God for you and everyone.

 

[_A]

And now you are just in denial of what even scientists say,

If you are a scientist, then I have been denying you. You can’t speak for ‘scientists’.

you have no free will,

I don’t see any evidence of this, and I think most other readers here will agree. What is your point here?

everything you think and do is controlled by other forces.

If you really think that, it may be true for you.

You don’t do anything to cause neuron activity, they just do it then you experience it, like a passenger in a vehicle.

Are you a neurologist?

Those forces are God for you and everyone.

Just because you say so? I don’t think so. I can and do make choices.

 

[FaithofAbraham]

If you are a scientist, then I have been denying you. You can’t speak for ‘scientists’.I don’t see any evidence of this, and I think most other readers here will agree. What is your point here? If you really think that, it may be true for you. Are you a neurologist? Just because you say so? I don’t think so. I can and do make choices.

*Some people believe we are something beyond neurons, but of course we are not. We are just the sum total of the activity of neurons. We assume that we have free will and that we make decisions, but we don’t. Neurons do. We decide that this sum total driving us is a decision we have made for ourselves. But it is not. *

Neuroscientist Rodolfo Llinás of the New York University School of Medicine

 

[_A]

Some people believe we are something beyond neurons, but of course we are not. We are just the sum total of the activity of neurons. We assume that we have free will and that we make decisions, but we don’t. Neurons do. We decide that this sum total driving us is a decision we have made for ourselves. But it is not.

Neuroscientist Rodolfo Llinás of the New York University School of Medicine

If you believe that there is no free will, are you only posting here because you can’t help yourself?

 

[Jonathan82]

Ok I will sum up the whole page from the link to a sentence. Radical Constructivism is people don’t discover reality but they create it; according to that everyone has their own reality they create.

 

[_A]

Ok I will sum up the whole page from the link to a sentence. Radical Constructivism is people don’t discover reality but they create it; according to that everyone has their own reality they create.

I understand, thanks. I think it underscores how important independent verification is when seeking out the facts of a matter.

It does not mean to me that I will accept every individuals reality. There are many who are simply wrong.

 

[NaturalEnquirer]

Has anyone ever heard a good atheistic argument for free will? FoA is right – if mental activity is governed exclusively by the same physical forces as the universe in general, where’s the room for free will? Sure, quantum mechanics moves us away from a deterministic clockwork universe, but it replaces the clockwork with dice – still no room for independent volition.

Phooney, any thoughts?

 

[FaithofAbraham]

If you believe that there is no free will, are you only posting here because you can’t help yourself?

Nothing happens unless God allows it, like I said.

 

[phooney]

Has anyone ever heard a good atheistic argument for free will? FoA is right – if mental activity is governed exclusively by the same physical forces as the universe in general, where’s the room for free will? Sure, quantum mechanics moves us away from a deterministic clockwork universe, but it replaces the clockwork with dice – still no room for independent volition.

Phooney, any thoughts?

Look up the phenomenon known as emergence. Here’s the wikipedia page to start with, in case anybody is interested:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emergence

It isn’t something I’ve looked into a huge amount to tell you the truth, but it seems to me we’d need to agree on various definitions before we could decide if we have free will or not! However, in these kind of systems, the total is greater than the sum of its parts.

There is no evidence (I won’t try to talk about quantum level events here, because I think that might needlessly complicate the issue, if you don’t mind NE) to suggest that any biochemical reactions don’t adhere to the same rules as any inorganic chemistry, it is all the same stuff. That said, brains are highly complex systems, and the connections between neurons are unique for everybody. So while, if you want to be very blunt about it and say it is all just matter reacting to matter, in complex life it is complex and unique configurations of matter that are reacting. If all we are is matter, and we react uniquely, is that the same as free will?

I don’t know, it is another thing I plan on reading about. So much to read, so little time

 

[_A]

Nothing happens unless God allows it, like I said.

Leukemia
Juvenile onset diabetes
Birth defects

Is your god able to reduce suffering, but unwilling?

 

[Jonathan82]

Yes he does allow those things to happen just like he allows everything to happen. From a the religious point of view your goal is to make it to heaven were none of that exists. Another things if you remember the story of Adam and eve which I don’t take literally how its written, but its symbolic, they had paradise but disobeyed there for from that point of view we are born into this world in sin. The whole point of our existence is not to live a perfect life here on earth but believe in God, so that then we can make it back to heaven.

 

[Jonathan82]

Another point of view. What is years of suffering compared to Eternal life in Heaven?